Wooden rims?
#76
Junior Member
Thread Starter
So that's roughly 680 euro or $740 for a non modern set of wheels when in comparison you can by a direct to consumer Chinese set of modern wheels in the 9Velo LV35 V2 at 1209 for $800 or buy even a lower end Superteam or Elitewheels for $600 or less. I mean do whatever you want but your build besides having some novel wheelset and it being able to accommodate a non modern bike is vastly inferior. The point is not if wooden wheels can be made but is it worth it? And the answer to that is a resounding no
But the fact that you could buy something else with that money means nothing.
Modern carbon Fluid dynamic wheels, it's worth it?
Well, it depends
- If you are a sprinter who appreciates high acceleration, then that kind of modern carbon wheelset is worth the extra money it costs, because they are the lightest possible, with the best possible aerodynamic profile, because this is the case where less turbolence possible matters, as well as the inertial mass counts, the less mass there is, and with the same force, the less time it takes to accelerate it
- if you are a climber who makes long and tiring climbs, then that type of modern wheels is worth the effort they save with other types of wheels, because this is the case of the inclined plane, where the weight force is broken down along the direction of motion , and creates an equal and opposite component that your legs must counteract, so every single milliWatt saved, even for apparently useless details such as saving 50g on the weight of the brakes (e.g. Campagnolo Skeleton vs traditional Caliper), well... on 10Km of climb... means spitting out a few liters less of saliva
So, it will be necessary to understand whether to add comfort or not, if the statement of some doctors is true, namely that they absorb the roughness of the road better, greatly reducing stress on the joints, from the wrist, to the elbow, to the shoulders and finally the spine .
With your hands on the handlebar, the 45% of your weight rests on the front wheel, the remaining 55% on the rear. The geometries of the frame and fork do what they can, but we have high lateral rigidity, and lower vertical rigidity, most of the road stresses are transmitted from the handlebars to the hands, to the column.
That's part of the the equation, and if a wooden wheel sets helps, that's the added value.
You have to try them on a journey of at least 100km per day, something in stages, 500km at least so to speak.
Something I plan to check out, personally
Last edited by DiTBho; 05-17-24 at 09:28 PM.
#77
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Some artistic imitation shoes of the big brands.
Same color but with the wrong spelling of the writing
PuMMa instead of Puma
Nice perhaps, for sure cheap, but definitively crap.
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#78
Full Member
Way to go proving you’re not as smart as you think. The word you’re looking for is moot. Did you also get a cheap Chinese knockoff education to go with the wheels you keep promoting around the forum?
#79
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I am considering a Litespeed Classic 1997 frame with NivaCrMo fork for the wooden wheel sets.
From the perspective of the current year, 2024, things made in the 90s should be quite vintage.
In Holland I saw bikes built in 2023, in stainless steel (rare thing to see), without any paint, designed for the city.
Equipped with wooden rims, wooden handlebars, wooden pedals (alluminim core, MKS on based pedals).
Without brake grips or anything else, brake in the rear hub that can be operated by pedaling backwards.
On an aesthetic level, they were something very elegant and classic, which conveyed the same carefree feeling you have when taking a bike ride in the summer.
Unfortunately I couldn't try them, I had a return flight, and I was late.
From the perspective of the current year, 2024, things made in the 90s should be quite vintage.
In Holland I saw bikes built in 2023, in stainless steel (rare thing to see), without any paint, designed for the city.
Equipped with wooden rims, wooden handlebars, wooden pedals (alluminim core, MKS on based pedals).
Without brake grips or anything else, brake in the rear hub that can be operated by pedaling backwards.
On an aesthetic level, they were something very elegant and classic, which conveyed the same carefree feeling you have when taking a bike ride in the summer.
Unfortunately I couldn't try them, I had a return flight, and I was late.
#80
Over the hill
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 24,426
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Again no it's not false. You literally can get Carbon fiber rims for the same price or a lot less and it weigh 250g less before building them up, plus if you were to buy a complete wheelset from a manufacture you could get lighter hubs and lighter spokes and nibbles for the same price or much less
Last edited by urbanknight; 05-18-24 at 02:30 PM.
#81
Over the hill
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 24,426
Bikes: Giant Defy, Giant Revolt
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I am considering a Litespeed Classic 1997 frame with NivaCrMo fork for the wooden wheel sets.
From the perspective of the current year, 2024, things made in the 90s should be quite vintage.
In Holland I saw bikes built in 2023, in stainless steel (rare thing to see), without any paint, designed for the city.
Equipped with wooden rims, wooden handlebars, wooden pedals (alluminim core, MKS on based pedals).
Without brake grips or anything else, brake in the rear hub that can be operated by pedaling backwards.
On an aesthetic level, they were something very elegant and classic, which conveyed the same carefree feeling you have when taking a bike ride in the summer.
Unfortunately I couldn't try them, I had a return flight, and I was late.
From the perspective of the current year, 2024, things made in the 90s should be quite vintage.
In Holland I saw bikes built in 2023, in stainless steel (rare thing to see), without any paint, designed for the city.
Equipped with wooden rims, wooden handlebars, wooden pedals (alluminim core, MKS on based pedals).
Without brake grips or anything else, brake in the rear hub that can be operated by pedaling backwards.
On an aesthetic level, they were something very elegant and classic, which conveyed the same carefree feeling you have when taking a bike ride in the summer.
Unfortunately I couldn't try them, I had a return flight, and I was late.
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#82
Should Be More Popular
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 43,641
Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix
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4,426 Posts
I am considering a Litespeed Classic 1997 frame with NivaCrMo fork for the wooden wheel sets.
From the perspective of the current year, 2024, things made in the 90s should be quite vintage.
In Holland I saw bikes built in 2023, in stainless steel (rare thing to see), without any paint, designed for the city.
Equipped with wooden rims, wooden handlebars, wooden pedals (alluminim core, MKS on based pedals).
Without brake grips or anything else, brake in the rear hub that can be operated by pedaling backwards.
On an aesthetic level, they were something very elegant and classic, which conveyed the same carefree feeling you have when taking a bike ride in the summer.
Unfortunately I couldn't try them, I had a return flight, and I was late.
From the perspective of the current year, 2024, things made in the 90s should be quite vintage.
In Holland I saw bikes built in 2023, in stainless steel (rare thing to see), without any paint, designed for the city.
Equipped with wooden rims, wooden handlebars, wooden pedals (alluminim core, MKS on based pedals).
Without brake grips or anything else, brake in the rear hub that can be operated by pedaling backwards.
On an aesthetic level, they were something very elegant and classic, which conveyed the same carefree feeling you have when taking a bike ride in the summer.
Unfortunately I couldn't try them, I had a return flight, and I was late.
#83
Junior Member
Thread Starter
LOL, funny =)
here it must be said that... the soles of cycling shoes should be as rigid as possible.
To transfer the force from the foot to the pedal with the greatest possible efficiency.
Without losses in elastic deformations
I usually don't wear cycling shoes, but runners' ones, which doesn't ensure maximum efficiency at all.
But I'm also the guy who puts a side stand on my racing bike.
here it must be said that... the soles of cycling shoes should be as rigid as possible.
To transfer the force from the foot to the pedal with the greatest possible efficiency.
Without losses in elastic deformations
I usually don't wear cycling shoes, but runners' ones, which doesn't ensure maximum efficiency at all.
But I'm also the guy who puts a side stand on my racing bike.
#84
Senior Member
So, it will be necessary to understand whether to add comfort or not, if the statement of some doctors is true, namely that they absorb the roughness of the road better, greatly reducing stress on the joints, from the wrist, to the elbow, to the shoulders and finally the spine .
With your hands on the handlebar, the 45% of your weight rests on the front wheel, the remaining 55% on the rear. The geometries of the frame and fork do what they can, but we have high lateral rigidity, and lower vertical rigidity, most of the road stresses are transmitted from the handlebars to the hands, to the column.
With your hands on the handlebar, the 45% of your weight rests on the front wheel, the remaining 55% on the rear. The geometries of the frame and fork do what they can, but we have high lateral rigidity, and lower vertical rigidity, most of the road stresses are transmitted from the handlebars to the hands, to the column.
If you believe wood rims somehow stand apart from the other rim materials with respect to vertical deformation in a built wheel, please provide links to test results supporting that belief.
(Note: most reports of results of wheel stiffness tests are confined to measurements of lateral stiffness, because the measured differences in vertical stiffness have been shown to be insignificant/bordering on nonexistent.)
How Much Does a Bicycle Wheel Deflect Vertically? Not Much.
Spoke Tension and Vertical Wheel Stiffness
Wheel Stiffness Test
Jobst Brandt was a bicycle enthusiast and an engineer (who, for instance, designed suspension systems for Porsche) who had very little patience for claims regarding bicycle technology that were unsupported by evidence. Here's a collection of topics presenting some of his thoughts on bike tech. Discussions of the vertical stiffness of bike wheels are conspicuously absent.
Another page with more from Jobst.
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#86
Junior Member
Thread Starter
#87
Junior Member
Thread Starter
It's clearly advertised as a benefit, and and it's precisely want I am willing to verify in person.
#88
Senior Member
Trying them tells you nothing. Confirmation bias is a real thing. People used to believe that aluminum bike frames rode more harshly than steel and titanium frames. But tests showed that, e.g., a 1997 Cannondale aluminum racing frame differed from a Litespeed titanium racing frame in vertical compliance under a representative load by 0.018" - a difference that would obviously be imperceptible through the suspension provided by any bike tire.
Instead of "trying them," measure them. See the first of my links in the post you quoted for a simple test rig that would demonstrate the difference in vertical compliance between a built wheel with a wood rim and a similar wheel built with any other rim material. Once you've purchased the wood rims and built the wheels, please measure the vertical compliance and report back.
Instead of "trying them," measure them. See the first of my links in the post you quoted for a simple test rig that would demonstrate the difference in vertical compliance between a built wheel with a wood rim and a similar wheel built with any other rim material. Once you've purchased the wood rims and built the wheels, please measure the vertical compliance and report back.
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#89
Banned
I think a bare Ti frame would be a good choice to show off the wooden rims. A 650b conversion would let you run wider tires, better for a cruiser type bike.
#90
Senior Member
Did a quick search: current-production wood rims seem to be available in 26" (probably meaning 559 mm) and 700c (622 mm; some rim manufacturers refer to this size as 28" or 29") in tubular or "pneumatic" models. Didn't see any 650b rims listed.
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#91
Wood is a useful material and still used in many engineering/sporting applications. For example most skis still have laminated wood cores. But in many applications, other materials have completely taken over. Tennis racquets were almost all wooden until the 80s, when aluminium became more popular and then ultimately carbon, which is now universally accepted as the material of choice for all but the cheapest aluminium racquets.
Wheel manufacturers abandoned wooden rims much earlier in favour of aluminium and now carbon rims. I don’t see 2024 marking a return to wooden rims in this market or any other where it has been long since displaced. What do you think has changed that would suddenly make wooden rims viable again?
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#92
Banned
Well maybe OP could go with a vintage MTB frame. Should be cheap, canti brakes would add some visual interest. Ditch the suspension fork, obviously. I'm seeing it! Keep the gearing uncluttered with a single speed or 1X. Brooks saddle and a brass bell.
#93
Senior Member
Wheel manufacturers abandoned wooden rims much earlier in favour of aluminium and now carbon rims. I don’t see 2024 marking a return to wooden rims in this market or any other where it has been long since displaced. What do you think has changed that would suddenly make wooden rims viable again?
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#94
Junior Member
Thread Starter
If you want more comfort, wider, higher volume tyres are what you are looking for. Choice of wheel rim material is irrelevant in this respect.
Wood is a useful material and still used in many engineering/sporting applications. For example most skis still have laminated wood cores. But in many applications, other materials have completely taken over. Tennis racquets were almost all wooden until the 80s, when aluminium became more popular and then ultimately carbon, which is now universally accepted as the material of choice for all but the cheapest aluminium racquets.
Wheel manufacturers abandoned wooden rims much earlier in favour of aluminium and now carbon rims. I don’t see 2024 marking a return to wooden rims in this market or any other where it has been long since displaced. What do you think has changed that would suddenly make wooden rims viable again?
Wood is a useful material and still used in many engineering/sporting applications. For example most skis still have laminated wood cores. But in many applications, other materials have completely taken over. Tennis racquets were almost all wooden until the 80s, when aluminium became more popular and then ultimately carbon, which is now universally accepted as the material of choice for all but the cheapest aluminium racquets.
Wheel manufacturers abandoned wooden rims much earlier in favour of aluminium and now carbon rims. I don’t see 2024 marking a return to wooden rims in this market or any other where it has been long since displaced. What do you think has changed that would suddenly make wooden rims viable again?
Ok, we are all idiot, blablabla.
#95
Senior Member
#96
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#97
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Instead of "trying them," measure them. See the first of my links in the post you quoted for a simple test rig that would demonstrate the difference in vertical compliance between a built wheel with a wood rim and a similar wheel built with any other rim material. Once you've purchased the wood rims and built the wheels, please measure the vertical compliance and report back.
By "trying", I really mean trying wheels on the road, but with accelerometers attached to both the fork and the handlebars, then comparing the same experience with other wheels.
technically it is not exactly a measurement, because I will work on renormalized differences, totally dimensionless numbers.
As I wrote, I am interested in how much they dampen vibrations, and here there are many factors, from the material, to the fact that a TSS rim cannot be inflated to more than 5 Bar, 2 bar less than what I use with normal steel rims aluminum steel, but I'm interested in the overall result.
Have you ever worked with a MEMS gyroscope? The instantaneous numerical error is negligible, but in drones you have to be very careful with the integral function because that error, spread over a 1 hour time window, sends the sensor-fusion into saturation if nothing is done.
What do I mean? You may "somehow" take your rim measurements and think the differences vs allu? carbon? are negligible, and locally they are (especially if measured with hobby instruments), but they can make a big difference after 5 hours in the saddle.
This is what they advertised and what I want to check out, and for sure, I'll make my observations.
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#98
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I won't read other comments, it has been a pure waste of my time.
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#99
Senior Member
You brought up this stiffness thing of wheels when I mentione it about frames, and about wheels were talking about how much they absorb vibrations.
By "trying", I really mean trying wheels on the road, but with accelerometers attached to both the fork and the handlebars, then comparing the same experience with other wheels.
technically it is not exactly a measurement, because I will work on renormalized differences, totally dimensionless numbers.
As I wrote, I am interested in how much they dampen vibrations, and here there are many factors, from the material, to the fact that a TSS rim cannot be inflated to more than 5 Bar, 2 bar less than what I use with normal steel rims aluminum steel, but I'm interested in the overall result.
Have you ever worked with a MEMS gyroscope? The instantaneous numerical error is negligible, but in drones you have to be very careful with the integral function because that error, spread over a 1 hour time window, sends the sensor-fusion into saturation if nothing is done.
What do I mean? You may "somehow" take your rim measurements and think the differences vs allu? carbon? are negligible, and locally they are (especially if measured with hobby instruments), but they can make a big difference after 5 hours in the saddle.
This is what they advertised and what I want to check out, and for sure, I'll make my observations.
By "trying", I really mean trying wheels on the road, but with accelerometers attached to both the fork and the handlebars, then comparing the same experience with other wheels.
technically it is not exactly a measurement, because I will work on renormalized differences, totally dimensionless numbers.
As I wrote, I am interested in how much they dampen vibrations, and here there are many factors, from the material, to the fact that a TSS rim cannot be inflated to more than 5 Bar, 2 bar less than what I use with normal steel rims aluminum steel, but I'm interested in the overall result.
Have you ever worked with a MEMS gyroscope? The instantaneous numerical error is negligible, but in drones you have to be very careful with the integral function because that error, spread over a 1 hour time window, sends the sensor-fusion into saturation if nothing is done.
What do I mean? You may "somehow" take your rim measurements and think the differences vs allu? carbon? are negligible, and locally they are (especially if measured with hobby instruments), but they can make a big difference after 5 hours in the saddle.
This is what they advertised and what I want to check out, and for sure, I'll make my observations.
GCN and other publishers in the cycling field with an online presence would likely be interested, too, whether or not the results show significant differences from aluminum and carbon rims.
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#100
Would it have been more useful if everyone just agreed with your viewpoint? I actually think you made a valid point about vibration absorption. You will find that carbon fibre is also very good in this regard and the main reason I prefer carbon seatposts and bars over metal. Wood may offer similar damping properties.