Show us your Belgian bikes!
06-04-12, 11:24 AM
#76
Full Member
Well...
His : 78689 VH
Mine : 1 (not sure of this first digit) 14883 VH
I don't want to scratch the paint to get sure of the first digit but depending on it, either mine is much older or it would be the contrary
His : 78689 VH
Mine : 1 (not sure of this first digit) 14883 VH
I don't want to scratch the paint to get sure of the first digit but depending on it, either mine is much older or it would be the contrary
06-04-12, 12:07 PM
#77
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Hi,
This is a pretty cool bicycle but I think that it is much older than you think and I have a doubt on the Van Hauwaert identity.
Why do I think this ?
If I'm not wrong, the item which makes you believes that it is dated of 51 is the Sturmey hub.
But this could have been changed.
Everything else looks much older on this bike.
Also I see a Dutch (that's not in Belgium) name on the frame.
Of course the crankset is a Van Hauwert, as mine.
But wooden wheels, rod operated brakes ... this looks prewar to me.
As a comparison, some pictures of my Cyrille Van Hauwaert
I date it as 1936, as stamped on components.
The paint is in 2 tones of metalic colours, mainly grey with metal black overspray on tube junctions
Here a picture of the Van Hauwaert logo on the head tube
And another one of one of the decals on the frame saying Original Van Hauwaert Bruxelles
Mavic INAC aluminium mud guards rather than wood
Mine is in 650C Semi-ballon tyres, but what about yours ?
The wheels are not the original ones
My British rooster likes it !
Pre 1938 style of gear selector (I believe yours must have been replaced by a more recent one)
Van Hauwaert marked steering
The chainguard is also reading Van Hauwaert, same crankset as you, racing style pedals
And a very special lock (I still need to find out what is the code before trying to close it...)
Voilà...
I find yours is extremelly atractive with the rod operated brakes and the wooden things.
I can be wrong but I think you have a early 30 Dutch bike
The wheel hub exchange might be explained. I'm about to do the same for another similar Belgian bike I own. This because the rear wheel is missing and a correct KB6 hub is simply impossible to find.
That one is a Bekaert (also Brussels based) but will require a long restauration
This is a pretty cool bicycle but I think that it is much older than you think and I have a doubt on the Van Hauwaert identity.
Why do I think this ?
If I'm not wrong, the item which makes you believes that it is dated of 51 is the Sturmey hub.
But this could have been changed.
Everything else looks much older on this bike.
Also I see a Dutch (that's not in Belgium) name on the frame.
Of course the crankset is a Van Hauwert, as mine.
But wooden wheels, rod operated brakes ... this looks prewar to me.
As a comparison, some pictures of my Cyrille Van Hauwaert
I date it as 1936, as stamped on components.
The paint is in 2 tones of metalic colours, mainly grey with metal black overspray on tube junctions
Here a picture of the Van Hauwaert logo on the head tube
And another one of one of the decals on the frame saying Original Van Hauwaert Bruxelles
Mavic INAC aluminium mud guards rather than wood
Mine is in 650C Semi-ballon tyres, but what about yours ?
The wheels are not the original ones
My British rooster likes it !
Pre 1938 style of gear selector (I believe yours must have been replaced by a more recent one)
Van Hauwaert marked steering
The chainguard is also reading Van Hauwaert, same crankset as you, racing style pedals
And a very special lock (I still need to find out what is the code before trying to close it...)
Voilà...
I find yours is extremelly atractive with the rod operated brakes and the wooden things.
I can be wrong but I think you have a early 30 Dutch bike
The wheel hub exchange might be explained. I'm about to do the same for another similar Belgian bike I own. This because the rear wheel is missing and a correct KB6 hub is simply impossible to find.
That one is a Bekaert (also Brussels based) but will require a long restauration
06-04-12, 01:27 PM
#78
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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The frame came to me with seatpost and stem so I haven't measured them (yet). It was claimed to be PC'ed instead of painted so the diameter of the tubes may not be a good indication. I had no trouble mounting a Suntour FD. The BB is English.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
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Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
06-04-12, 01:28 PM
#79
Full Member
R531 or Durifort seemed more common by small frame makers
06-04-12, 01:33 PM
#80
Full Member
A Libertas that I restored last weekend from bare metal 
More about this one over here (sorry it's in French) https://veloretrocourse.proboards.com...ead=166&page=1
More about this one over here (sorry it's in French) https://veloretrocourse.proboards.com...ead=166&page=1
06-04-12, 01:50 PM
#81
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Tres tres beau Munny 
(I love the fact that "dropouts" en francais translates as "paws" - kinda makes sense really)
(I love the fact that "dropouts" en francais translates as "paws" - kinda makes sense really)
06-04-12, 02:04 PM
#82
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thanks for pointing me to that forum munny (yours?) I'll have to brush up my french to read it though 
. I think I'm going to need your wisdom when I start scouring the lands near Fourons for bikes, I'll have a lot of riding opportunities there this summer.
. I think I'm going to need your wisdom when I start scouring the lands near Fourons for bikes, I'll have a lot of riding opportunities there this summer.
06-04-12, 03:32 PM
#83
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Would you venture an educated guess as to the source/builder of the Verschueren labeled frame? Was fillet brazing common in Belgium in mid-60s?
Thanks,
J
Thanks,
J
I'm afraid this is not correct. I have some Durifort butted tubes from that period that I will braze soon (I hope) and Belgian frame makers were quite often looking for exotic pipes like for instance Sovexia and japan products (Flandria - superia, Libertas, Kessels...).
R531 or Durifort seemed more common by small frame makers
R531 or Durifort seemed more common by small frame makers
06-05-12, 01:51 AM
#84
Full Member
Afilado,
I tried to answer your mail but this forum doesn't allow me to do so. (I find the forum ergonomy ... surprising)
Fillet brazing is to me a bit strange. In general, it is not used for top quality bike but I'd agree that the effect is better than with ugly looking lugs.
I wouldn't say that it was uncommon. In my vicinity, a builder branding his bikes as Colibri was mostly using fillet brazing but these don't have the apparent quality of your bike.
I recently picked up a 1960 utility bike that had miniature lugs on the head tube as decoration and is fillet brazed. I'll dispose of it because the rear horizontal tube, where the drum was attached, is bent. I could mend it but have too much projects and was not going to keep it. My focus being (I try to narrow it as much as I can but have too much exceptions) on Belgian racing bikes, better 60 cm, center to center. No need to ask for the Van Hauwaert, I'll keep it but for instance, I think I'm going to sell a nice but far too small Kessels (Merckx, metalic grey colored)
I tried to answer your mail but this forum doesn't allow me to do so. (I find the forum ergonomy ... surprising)
Fillet brazing is to me a bit strange. In general, it is not used for top quality bike but I'd agree that the effect is better than with ugly looking lugs.
I wouldn't say that it was uncommon. In my vicinity, a builder branding his bikes as Colibri was mostly using fillet brazing but these don't have the apparent quality of your bike.
I recently picked up a 1960 utility bike that had miniature lugs on the head tube as decoration and is fillet brazed. I'll dispose of it because the rear horizontal tube, where the drum was attached, is bent. I could mend it but have too much projects and was not going to keep it. My focus being (I try to narrow it as much as I can but have too much exceptions) on Belgian racing bikes, better 60 cm, center to center. No need to ask for the Van Hauwaert, I'll keep it but for instance, I think I'm going to sell a nice but far too small Kessels (Merckx, metalic grey colored)
06-05-12, 04:35 AM
#86
Full Member
Hi Carl,
I did it at home. Without my compressor and paint gun (I use to paint my classic cars). I found out that lots of paint shop are still authorized to used solvant based paint and some will fill some rattle cans with a custom colour.
If you can paint, it's easy. Don't try without a correct mask.
Maybe we should develop the story around Libertas and Dr Mann team. It's a pitty that so many Libertas were exported to US. They are difficult to find nowadays.
By the way, in which part of Brussels are you ?
I did it at home. Without my compressor and paint gun (I use to paint my classic cars). I found out that lots of paint shop are still authorized to used solvant based paint and some will fill some rattle cans with a custom colour.
If you can paint, it's easy. Don't try without a correct mask.
Maybe we should develop the story around Libertas and Dr Mann team. It's a pitty that so many Libertas were exported to US. They are difficult to find nowadays.
By the way, in which part of Brussels are you ?
06-07-12, 01:45 AM
#88
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Hey Munny, thank you for the comments and observations about my Van Hauwaert. I suspect that it is a bit of a franken bike, I wouldn't be surprised if the hubs were 1950s upgrades. I think the wooden fenders are probably homemade and assume it had round steel ones originally. I do think it is genuinely a Van Hauwaert that was rebranded at some point, especially because of the rivet holes in the head tube.
Can you tell me how to pronounce Van Hauwaert?
I LOVE your bike! The brazed in rear rack is off the charts cool. I'd feel like I hit the lottery if I found one of those headbadges.
Can you tell me how to pronounce Van Hauwaert?
I LOVE your bike! The brazed in rear rack is off the charts cool. I'd feel like I hit the lottery if I found one of those headbadges.
__________________
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|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
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"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
06-07-12, 03:58 AM
#89
Full Member
Hi,
To me it is very surprising to see a bike like this ending up in Canton. Somes years ago, I was frequently going to a rubber city a bit north of you and once, I went to Canton and visited your surprising car museum.
It's difficult for me to tell how to pronoince Van Hauwaert, other than ... Van Hauwaert (Van like the vehicule and then closed to Howard)
I like your bike ! So interresting with wodden fenders & wheels, with the rod operated brakes and I was surprised not to have lights on mine.
The strange looking thing in the rear rack is an anti teft device. Head badges are actually more easy to find that you might think. People used to collect them and throw the rest of the bike away.
To me it is very surprising to see a bike like this ending up in Canton. Somes years ago, I was frequently going to a rubber city a bit north of you and once, I went to Canton and visited your surprising car museum.
It's difficult for me to tell how to pronoince Van Hauwaert, other than ... Van Hauwaert (Van like the vehicule and then closed to Howard)
I like your bike ! So interresting with wodden fenders & wheels, with the rod operated brakes and I was surprised not to have lights on mine.
The strange looking thing in the rear rack is an anti teft device. Head badges are actually more easy to find that you might think. People used to collect them and throw the rest of the bike away.
06-07-12, 08:35 AM
#90
Full Member
I would suggest you to play at the lottery today. https://fietsen-brommers.marktplaats....fdplaatje.html
Last edited by Munny; 06-07-12 at 10:58 AM.
06-07-12, 09:32 AM
#91
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I would suggest you to play at the lottery today. https://fietsen-brommers.marktplaats....fdplaatje.html
__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
06-07-12, 09:36 AM
#92
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Hi,
To me it is very surprising to see a bike like this ending up in Canton. Somes years ago, I was frequently going to a rubber city a bit north of you and once, I went to Canton and visited your surprising car museum.
It's difficult for me to tell how to pronoince Van Hauwaert, other than ... Van Hauwaert (Van like the vehicule and then closed to Howard)
I like your bike ! So interresting with wodden fenders & wheels, with the rod operated brakes and I was surprised not to have lights on mine.
The strange looking thing in the rear rack is an anti teft device. Head badges are actually more easy to find that you might think. People used to collect them and throw the rest of the bike away.
To me it is very surprising to see a bike like this ending up in Canton. Somes years ago, I was frequently going to a rubber city a bit north of you and once, I went to Canton and visited your surprising car museum.
It's difficult for me to tell how to pronoince Van Hauwaert, other than ... Van Hauwaert (Van like the vehicule and then closed to Howard)
I like your bike ! So interresting with wodden fenders & wheels, with the rod operated brakes and I was surprised not to have lights on mine.
The strange looking thing in the rear rack is an anti teft device. Head badges are actually more easy to find that you might think. People used to collect them and throw the rest of the bike away.
__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
06-07-12, 12:04 PM
#93
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This is what is offered for sale ("make an offer"):
It is not in a very good shape (part is missing). I'll be offline for the next couple of weeks, but if you want it, I'm sure one of the other members of the Dutch or Belgian BF chapter would be willing to facilitate.
It is not in a very good shape (part is missing). I'll be offline for the next couple of weeks, but if you want it, I'm sure one of the other members of the Dutch or Belgian BF chapter would be willing to facilitate.
06-07-12, 04:23 PM
#94
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It's almost finished. I need to fix a spoke and wire the lights next.
DSC06122 by mkeller234, on Flickr
DSC06124 by mkeller234, on Flickr
DSC06132 by mkeller234, on Flickr
DSC06134 by mkeller234, on Flickr
DSC06135 by mkeller234, on Flickr
DSC06122 by mkeller234, on FlickrDSC06124 by mkeller234, on Flickr
DSC06132 by mkeller234, on Flickr
DSC06134 by mkeller234, on Flickr
DSC06135 by mkeller234, on Flickr
__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
06-17-12, 01:05 PM
#95
Full Member
One of my Pre War Belgian racer made his first outing this afternoon.
Don't ask me the name. I only know that it was made locally.
I've found it in the atic of an house belonging to the familly of my wife.
Her great father has been racing in the first half of the century.
It must date of 1935 - 1939
Still some work needed:
Fit a shim behind the freewheel will help the derailleur fork not interfering with the spokes on the fourth gear.
Shortening the chain will help the tension
An thinner cork brake pads might solve the lack of return on the front brake.
Last year, as found ...
It had been modified into a road bike...
If you wonder about the double saddle it's that after breaking the original Brooks, I've fit it with a NOS prewar B17 Keyhole and this one was too nice to use.
More on this over here https://veloretrocourse.proboards.com...hread=3&page=1
Don't ask me the name. I only know that it was made locally.
I've found it in the atic of an house belonging to the familly of my wife.
Her great father has been racing in the first half of the century.
It must date of 1935 - 1939
Still some work needed:
Fit a shim behind the freewheel will help the derailleur fork not interfering with the spokes on the fourth gear.
Shortening the chain will help the tension
An thinner cork brake pads might solve the lack of return on the front brake.
Last year, as found ...
It had been modified into a road bike...
If you wonder about the double saddle it's that after breaking the original Brooks, I've fit it with a NOS prewar B17 Keyhole and this one was too nice to use.
More on this over here https://veloretrocourse.proboards.com...hread=3&page=1
06-17-12, 03:22 PM
#96
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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mkeller234, interesting bike. Lucifer generator? Prince Of Light, cast down because of his presumption? Curious name. Not to be confused with Lucas, Prince Of Darkness.
Munny, nice bike. What's with the double saddle?
Munny, nice bike. What's with the double saddle?
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
06-27-12, 04:33 AM
#97
Full Member
The original saddle, Brooks B17 reworked the Belgian way, has seen his leather tearing appart during the restauration.
Since then, I had fit it with a never used pre war B17.
But of course, this saddle is too good to be used and being original, not the right racing shape.
Several old specialised shops were used to alter the B17 shape.
They removed the leather, heated the metal until cherry red in a forge and with a special template where hammering it to a different shape. Then the leather was retrimmed, new holes made and new copper rivet (specialy made) where fitted.
From various trustfull sources, I've heard about 2 of these shops, one visited by Bartali and the other by Coppi to buy such a modified B17.
Now, this bike is wearing such a modified B17 (circa 1950)
The never used saddle was left on top at the time of the pictures
Since then, I had fit it with a never used pre war B17.
But of course, this saddle is too good to be used and being original, not the right racing shape.
Several old specialised shops were used to alter the B17 shape.
They removed the leather, heated the metal until cherry red in a forge and with a special template where hammering it to a different shape. Then the leather was retrimmed, new holes made and new copper rivet (specialy made) where fitted.
From various trustfull sources, I've heard about 2 of these shops, one visited by Bartali and the other by Coppi to buy such a modified B17.
Now, this bike is wearing such a modified B17 (circa 1950)
The never used saddle was left on top at the time of the pictures
06-27-12, 12:30 PM
#98
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The original saddle, Brooks B17 reworked the Belgian way, has seen his leather tearing appart during the restauration.
Since then, I had fit it with a never used pre war B17.
But of course, this saddle is too good to be used and being original, not the right racing shape.
Several old specialised shops were used to alter the B17 shape.
They removed the leather, heated the metal until cherry red in a forge and with a special template where hammering it to a different shape. Then the leather was retrimmed, new holes made and new copper rivet (specialy made) where fitted.
From various trustfull sources, I've heard about 2 of these shops, one visited by Bartali and the other by Coppi to buy such a modified B17.
Now, this bike is wearing such a modified B17 (circa 1950)
The never used saddle was left on top at the time of the pictures
Since then, I had fit it with a never used pre war B17.
But of course, this saddle is too good to be used and being original, not the right racing shape.
Several old specialised shops were used to alter the B17 shape.
They removed the leather, heated the metal until cherry red in a forge and with a special template where hammering it to a different shape. Then the leather was retrimmed, new holes made and new copper rivet (specialy made) where fitted.
From various trustfull sources, I've heard about 2 of these shops, one visited by Bartali and the other by Coppi to buy such a modified B17.
Now, this bike is wearing such a modified B17 (circa 1950)
The never used saddle was left on top at the time of the pictures
06-28-12, 10:37 AM
#99
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This is my Martelly. Im not sure of anything else, tried contacting them, no dice.
