mlundell

Wow, what a great forum. I did not know there were other people who enjoyed their vintage bike as much as I have enjoyed mine.


Now my question. One of the pulleys on my 73 Varsity (that I bought in 73) broke and now the chain will come off if I roll the bike backward. Is there a way to fix this? Or is it best to just replace the derailleur? If so, with what derailleur. I'm not looking to upgrade, I just want it to work properly again. Thanks for suggestions!

SurferRosa

If you're looking for new wheels for your rear derailleur, these usually work:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27470754742...r9%7E&LH_BIN=1

smontanaro 

mlundell I think Varsity's came with Huret Allvit derailleurs. Picking up a new-to-you used one here or on eBay might be an option. Before springing for the Shimano pulleys SurferRosa referenced, check the diameter of the axle/screw on which your pulley rides. The Shimano pulleys are (I think) have a 5mm opening. Simplex and SunTour at least used 6mm axles/screws on their derailleurs. Not sure about Huret.

dddd

Yes, the Huret pullies also have the 6mm hole size. They rarely break, so are great substitutes for fragile Simplex pulleys or for worn-out Suntour pullies.

I've bought quite a few beaten-down Huret Allvit derailers for their rugged ball-bearing pulleys, which spin quite well (especially after changing the 1/8" balls out for smoother Gr25 balls).

The top pulley on the Allvit has a threaded snout as part of one of it's cones, but which can be removed using a bench grinder (for use on a different derailer).

jimincalif

I remember BITD, my 1970 Varsity derailleur had ball bearings in the pulleys. When I got my American Eagle Semi-Pro with Suntour, those pulleys just had a bushing, so I swapped them, and they each fit the other derailleur, no problem. Not sure that this actually made any difference, but I like to think it did.

mlundell

My pullies have the bushings. Also I was wrong about the pullies, it just looked that way when the chain had jumped off. I think the actual problem is the play in the derailleur. Still annoying either way.

dddd

Is everything lubed up and free moving?

Is the pulley cage parallel to the freewheel cogs?

Maybe I've had better luck than most, but Allvits always worked well for me and I've had many bikes with them.
If the chain moves forward without rubbing then the chain should also move backward, unless perhaps the freewheel is too big a diameter to clear the pulley cage(?), which can immediately jam things up against the freewheel.

Usually 28t is the biggest and only freewheel size that I use with these derailers, but they will handle 30t in some cases depending on things like chain length/tension.
If the mounting claw plate is letting the derailer swing too far forward then that will further limit the freewheel size!

davester

IMHO, the first thing to check for a Varsity-mounted Allvit is if the derailleur has been bent by someone laying the bike on its side. That can definitely cause the symptom you describe. As dddd mentioned, check the alignment of the derailleur by carefully checking that the cage is parallel to the cogs. If not, bend it back.

mlundell

Great, I'll check these things out and respond back. I know this is the original derailleur and I think this is the original freewheel. I might be wrong on the freewheel because I changed the rear wheel for an alloy, due to tube side blowout issues.

mlundell

And yes, it is all lubed up.

dedhed

Put just about any Suntour on it and never look back.

John E

The SunTour VGT rear derailleur and the KuoKoto Pro Ace pedals were two of the best features of my 1971 American Eagle Semi-Pro, which I rode for 20 years until the bottom bracket shell broke at the seat tube junction. I do recall ball bearing derailleur pulleys from the early 1960s, and I guess bushings and plastic pulleys became popular in the late 1960s. I wouldn't hesitate to put a vintage SunTour derailleur on that Varsity.

mlundell

My RD checked out as straight. I got it to work better with a lot of adjustment (still needs a bit more)

I checked my local coop. They had a pile of SunTour Honors and 1 SunTour VGT Luxe. None of these had the hook. Can I use my current hook to attach one of these?

I also picked up a Schwinn GT-100 which matches what I currently have, The spring in the upper pivot is stronger than mine. The "new" one is very dirty. Do I use lots of degreaser and a toothbrush to clean it?

mlundell

Coop also had a pile of SunTour Cyclones

thook

yes, you can use the hook....or "hanger" as it's technically called. and, yes, soapy water and/or degreaser and brush. then, dry and lube. i use silicone spray, but there are plenty of other things you can use
oh, i should add...you need to compare the cage length of your old and any prospective new derailleur. for the VGT, you may need a slightly longer chain. not sure since i've never used one of those hurets. someone else here can advise you, i'm sure dddd ?

thook

oooo! no kidding? long cage? short cage? cyclone would be the pick, imo

mlundell

How can I determine if the SunTours at the coop are good or bad?

thook

good or bad...as in functional? not broken? that takes some knowledged eyeballs, but if they're functional pretty much any suntour is good in terms of quality and performance. maybe take a few pictures or ask one of the (hopefully) skilled persons at the coop. otherwise, the pulleys shouldn't have the teeth worn down/off, the limit screws need to be there and move freely, and springs need to move freely and have adequate tension (not common that they don't), the pivot/mounting bolt needs to be there and move freely, and the cage needs to be minimally enough to not at all worn and straight. now, things can be mobilized to move freely and things can be straightened, but it'd be fortunate to have all the necessary moving parts present and at least salvageable....within reason

mlundell

i.e. Use common sense when evaluating an old RD.

thook

something like that...

dedhed

Most likely if it's threaded M10 X 1.0. Some lower level RD it's riveted or pinned to the claw. Also check the stop location although those are fairly standardized for most derailleurs.
Worst case you pick up a claw from some other RD there or buy one.

​​​​​​https://www.ebay.com/itm/30410188846...RoC6g0QAvD_BwE

tcs

The metallurgy on the early SunTour detailers left something to be desired. I've run into higher mileage examples with excessive slop between the derailleur body and hanger bolt.

All the bike-boom era Varsity's derailleurs I've seen were Allvits marked 'Schwinn Approved'. The Allvit was used on top quality French Herse and Singer bikes back in the day.

mlundell

Being from Michigan, I have one advantage when looking at old RDs. Most people only ride their bikes for 3 or months a year.

Vintage Schwinn

The Allvit is a piece of trash compared to the Shimano built for Schwinn, GT-100. The Allvit is a piece of trash compared to the Shimano built for Schwinn, GT-120
The GT-100 was original equipment on the 1970 - 1973, well actually into early 1974 on the FIVE SPEED SUBURBANS & FIVE SPEED COLLEGIATES.
Those five speeds have a model J (japan) freewheel which has 32 teeth as the first gear. The VARSITY/10spSUBURBAN/CONTINENTAL have the model F (france) freewheel which has 28 teeth as the first gear. THE JAPANESE WERE THE ONLY REAR DERAILLEUR MANUFACTURERS AT THAT TIME THAT COULD RELIABLY SHIFT MORE THAN 30 TEETH. (the GT-120 is original equipment from FEB 1974 on for the FIVE SPEED SUBURBANS and COLLEGIATES and again the substitute when production line of Varsity had no Allvits at that moment..... Did you know that Schwinn introduced the SPORTABOUT & RUNABOUT in around 1977 which was just the VARSITY except with Maeda SUN TOUR REAR derailleur.........if I recall correctly the SPORTABOUT was dropbar version and RUNABOUT was tourist handlebar version.

The Allvit is a functional and decent enough rear derailleur for a European rear derailleur but once the JAPANESE CAME ALONG and Shimano appeared with the Lark in the late sixties, all existing European rear derailleurs were a POS by comparison. Yes, Shimanos were that much better! The Japanese NEVER LOOKED BACK, and the Europeans never ever came close to making such a durable and reliable rear derailleur as the Japanese from about 1968 onward.
Hell yeah, the Japanese came in and copied from the best of the European designs and made slight engineering changes and refined the design with more durable materials, closer tolerances, and far better quality control. Perhaps some European marque derailleurs remained with a slight weight advantage but when that difference is so slight, a lighter piece of she at is not what you want, no matter how cool the Italian script of the Campagnolo name or the long time French favorite that many bikes featured before it was recognized just how much better the Japanese rear derailleurs were . (SHIMANO and Maeda Sun Tour )
There is a reason that most everybody went JAPANESE for rear derailleurs by 1977. Shimano & Maeda Sun Tour wiped out Campagnolo , Huret, Simplex and all the other Europeans because the Japanese products were so much better.
I WOULD NOT PUT AN ALLVIT on the VARSITY or anything that I would ride.
The GT-100 was installed on some VARSITIES when Schwinn's Chicago Production Line was occasionally out of ALLVITS. I wouldn't ride a PARAMOUNT with a Campagnolo rear derailleur either! I remove the original Campy POS and place it in a ziplock baggie and store it. Someone who may own it in the future might want to ride it like a museum piece with the POS original Campagnolo rear derailleur. I SEE NO BENEFIT IN RIDING SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHEN YOU CAN INSTALL A JAPANESE REAR DERAILLEUR THAT DOES EVERYTHING BETTER.
You might think differently and that is your choice and my choice is no European rear derailleurs on any bikes that I ride.
The European derailleurs are decent enough, and they were the best in the world UNTIL the JAPANESE surpassed them just prior to 1970.
As simple as it is to change a rear derailleur, I just don't understand why you'd even consider riding any European rear derailleur. Save the original rear derailleur in a plastic ziplock baggie if some future museum curator bike collector wants it to be factory perfect but if you are gonna ride any bicycle for maximum enjoyment and fun, then go with a better rear derailleur. If the rear derailleur ain't Japanese, then you don't want it on any of your bikes. Pretty just doesn't get it done. Just like their nation's cars, the Italians and French have produced so many pretty cars but pretty bad is the most polite description that I can think of to describe their overall quality and durability.

There are so many specific old SHIMANO and Maeda SUN TOUR rear derailleurs that would be great.
Remember that you don't necessarily want something light weight because it is not gonna significantly matter.
What you want is rugged reliability and flawless operation once you get it set. There is something beneficial from having stout durable components and protective bash guards especially on a general purpose ten speed like the Varsity. Supreme durability and set it and forget it should be the goal with it never missing a beat. Weight savings on a VARSITY is just stupid when it brings with it fragility and decreased durability. Think of the VARSITY as a CEMENT TRUCK or
DUMP TRUCK that sees repeated heavy duty rugged use. It is not a RACE CAR that must be fast enough to qualify to make the race field.

dddd

In reply to Vintage Schwinn:

The bash guard as added to the Shimano-made GT100 derailer didn't really protect the derailer in a fall, in fact it added more leverage to the vulnerable claw-mount bracket than even the long body of the bottom-swing Allvit could match!
It could shield against certain kinds of forward impacts, but could also snag on things.

It seems perhaps why no maker of derailers has since added such a guard to a standard parallelogram derailer(?).

The Allvit seems optimally designed for 3/4/5-speed freewheels having a full range from ~14-28 teeth, and handles that range really well when the supporting shift lever and cabling are well-lubricated, and otherwise in good order. It was designed in the 1950's and seems intended more for period touring gearing than for road racing gearing.
It's the original/correct/suitable rear derailer for a huge number of bikes over a record-long period in a wide range of price points, though during it's final decade had been mostly eclipsed for OEM spec on better models by newer aluminum derailers.

The Allvit and plastic Simplex derailers were alternately chosen by many manufacturers for different model years of the same model of bike. Both handled about the same gearing range, the Simplex was lighter but the Allvit including it's pullies(!) was FAR more tough and long-lasting.

I get that some people have bad memories of how the old Allvits worked for them on typical, neglected bikes, but like you said, "Remember that you don't necessarily want something light weight because it is not gonna significantly matter".

The below-pictured "Allvits" (with their travel increased) handle the duties of fast shifting across standard-spaced (13-28t and 13-30t, respectively) six-speed freewheels even under the rigors of quite-spirited riding in my local foothills. And although that's something that most other derailers can also handle, it seems more about careful setup than about the superiority of one derailer over another.
Seriously, both of these shift so well that I often intentionally upshift while off of the the saddle, using my knee!

Allvits (just like Simplex Prestiges) are often found/installed after sitting around for decades in a box of parts, and do then tend to be quite stiff in the pivots, just like us old riders are in the morning.
But oil them up and then "warm them up" on a couple of long rides, and they move free and smooth, their guide pulley path perfectly following the contour of those old 14-28t freewheels.
Note that long-cage Allvits use a different claw bracket to position the derailer body for more clearance withg larger cogs, but (only if used with flexible modern chain) may not control the chain as accurately on the freewheel's smaller cogs. This is an issue that other vintage derailers such as Suntour GT and even Crane GT will also exhibit however, so I'm always ready to explore ways of allowing this or that vintage derailer to swing forward a little bit more, typically by using a file on the stop of the derailer and or bracket/hanger.
The Allvit is rather stiffly sprung, so works best with longer, spring-assisted, ratcheting or retrofriction levers!