1989Pre 

Well.., I can't speak for O.P. He qualified his objection by saying he was just ranting (or something similar). On one hand, it would be nice if each shop carried some proper touring models (or sizes) for people to test-ride. On the other hand, even my small LBS carries a gravel bike or two, so maybe O.P. should explore that option.

1989Pre 

Not really. If there are no bikes on the floor to test ride, then you aren't a dealer, but just a distributor.

indyfabz

A distributor distributes bikes to retailers.

What he meant is that any shop with a QBP account can order and retail Salsa bikes. Same with Surly.

PeteHski

Well it was you that suggested that the whole bike industry was becoming less diverse and more “conformist” implying that we are all idiots, which is complete nonsense. When I went in my LBS in the 80s it was full of drop bar steel road bikes with 6-speed 52/42 cranksets and very little else. Maybe a few 3x touring bikes. Now there are all manner of road, gravel, hybrid, commuter and mountain bikes. There are so many different models that the LBS tends to only stock what sells quickly on the shop floor - usually fairly low end builds. Every bike I’ve bought over the last decade has required an order. The chances of them having a specific bike in a specific build spec and size is practically nil these days.

mstateglfr 

You got there in the end. Yeah, the TC culture and market is not representative of the overall bike market or shops as a whole. Otso, Wilde, AC, etc I have seen these in shops in the TC metro, but overall they are a hens tooth elsewhere.

1989Pre 

Yes, and I conceded a point in post #126, but apparently, that was not good enough for you. In no way did I infer an accusation against anyone's intellect. The industry does two things; cuts cost and maximizes profit. This is reality. If you think this is fantasy, you just haven't been paying attention.

genejockey 

Yeah. That'll work.

mstateglfr 

Nothing is inherently wrong with a modern gravel bike, but there could be some issues, depending on the bike.

- Racks carrying panniers isnt exactly the easiest to mount to a lot of gravel bikes. Steel gravel bikes, sure that will be fine. Aluminum gravel bikes, sure that will be fine. Carbon gravel bikes?...eh thats hit/miss and likely limited in weight more than the other materials. And a lot of gravel bikes are made from carbon.

- Same issue for forks- even many(most?) steel and aluminum gravel frames use carbon forks. Many carbon forks cant handle more than a few kg of weight on each blade. There are some workarounds but workarounds are rarely ideal, and you mentioned gravel bikes look ideal.

- Then there is the gearing- a traditional touring bike that is actually used for self supported touring will have gearing that is 19 gear inches up to 110 gear inches. <---this is a generalization. It may be 22-120 or 16-90, etc etc.
A 48/38/28 triple with an 11-36 cassette gives you between 21 and 120 gear inches. This is whats on a Surly DT. A Fuji Touring has between 20 and 120 gear inches.
My gravel bike has a 48/32 crank and 11-36 cassette. With the same width tires as the bikes above, thats 24 to 120 gear inches. Its close, but I can tell you from experience that the last few GI really matter when packed down with gear.

PeteHski

Well you linked cost cutting and profit maximisation directly to reduced overall product diversity, which is not the reality we are seeing.

Maelochs

And an even More expensive risk for the shop.

I hope people see the impossibility of every shop stocking every model of every brand in every size ….. Rohloff hub we can leave aside, as it doesn’t affect fit. Even with just normal running gear, every bike shop would need to be a warehouse … and space costs money. Also, the bike shop has to pay for bike sit doesn’t sell, as much as it does for the one’s it does sell …. And those bikes take up floor space which the bike shop needs to display bikes people will actually buy.

I think we all know this. But sometimes we don’t all use what we know when formulating replies.
Actually I agree … . the OP is not being sufficiently resourceful.

If it were me and I were desperate to try a specific model (not with Rohloff, (addressed above)) then I would call every bike shop in an increasing radius until I found one. I would drive out there and test the fit. I would buy it if I thought it was a good deal, and if not, I would not. But even if I had to drive two hours …. If that is what it takes to get what I want, I do what it takes.

The OP seems to think every bike shop should stock every model in every size … even if they never sell them. I think he needs to grow up.

Also … if I want a specific bike, I can search for it. Which bike does he want? Which specific flat-bar touring frame does he want? He never says. If he wants a drop-bar frame converted to flat bar … then he wants a Custom Bike. So now he is asking for random bike shops around the nation to build custom bikes In case he happens to want one?

If he wants a specific model which is mass-produced … as I say, if he is sufficiently resourceful he will be able to take a test ride---or ascertain that such a bike is not available.

So now what, he yells at bike manufacturers for not setting up an assembly line to build a special bike just for him? This is all beyond ridiculous.

As far as that goes …. If he claims that nowhere, anywhere, does anyone sell flat-bar road bikes, I Know he is lying. I travel to a few nearby cities from time to time, and I know for a fact that there are flat-bar road bikes---and some nice ones---being sold in those cities. The Giant Fastroad and Allroad come to mind, but I have almost certainly seen others ….. So, yeah, he is not being resourceful.

As far as I know, NO dealer specs bikes with Rohloff hubs because they are such a huge up-front investment and are in such low demand. Same with dynamo front hubs. If the OP wants a very special specialty bike he might need to talk to a builder, or ask a shop owner to place an order …. or just buy his own wheels. Rohloff hubs are way too expensive, and the demands way too low, to expect bike shops to stock them or to stock bikes equipped with them.

If the OP cannot grasp that … well, he just wanted to rant. He admits it. Therefore it is almost unfair to expect any honesty or logic in his post. Problem is, when questioned, he Pretended there was both logic and honesty in his rant.

His whole premise---that every bike shop only stocks the same two models---is prima facie absurd. How many of us have been to a bike shop? How many of those bike shops stock two and only two bikes, or even only two models?

Further …. If bike shops in his area stock only one type of bike---and they all do---that shows that the bike Buyers in that area want that kind of bike. So … OP expects bike shops to ignore the desires of actual paying customers and stock only bikes the OP wants …. Which are so unique nobody else wants them … and when he buys one, what? The shops all go out of business?

We all know bike shops stock a lot of bikes, in different sizes and models, and adjust inventory to accommodate the customer base---they stock what sells and don’t reorder what doesn’t sell—and maybe sell those off at a discount. If a bike shop can survive stocking just two models---why should it stock more? If people are happy with just drop-bar road bikes, and the best (most profitable) use of the space is to stock drop-bar road bikes … Duh.

The shop near me only has road bikes … a variety, but no mountain bikes. (They also sponsor the local cycling club, which offers primarily road rides.) They will sometimes have a gravel bike (whichever Canon gravel bike has a low-travel Lefty fork,) but that is not their Stock in Trade. People come to the shop because it is the only “real” bike shop in a few towns, because the people who own it and work there are dedicated riders, and thus knowledgeable, and if a customer comes in looking for something they will work with that customer for as long as it takes. They have (as far as I can recall) Trek and Canon, and some used bikes ….. some for casual road use, some for more serious road use. They know their clientele both generally and in specific.
.
There is a mountain bike-oriented shop about half-an-hour away … right near a local trail head for a trail system (coincidence, right?) That shop organizes frequent trail rides.

Neither shop is physically large enough to accommodate a good range of both road bikes and MTBs, though I am sure either shop would order whatever ……

So if I went to the road shop, would I be justified in whining because there were no MTBs?

I don’t mind if someone posts a stupid rant, but once it comes under scrutiny, bail on it. Don’t sit there attacking people who point out the illogic and dishonesty. Just admit it is just a rant and let it go. (The OP eventually admitted he was ranting, and that his only communication modes were sarcastic, insulting, and cynical … but he kept defending his rant.)

OP----for a small hourly consulting fee I will find the bike you want. We can work together to track down this IGH unicorn. That is what first-worlders do.

You know the best part of First-World Problems? They are not really problems with the world, they are problems with specific First-Worlders. People are watching their children die from disease and starvation As You Read This. Women, children, and even men are being ***** and tortured, as you read this. People are being murdered as you read this.

I have friends who have had loved ones arrested, tortured, and disappeared because of their spiritual beliefs. I have friends who have themselves been arrested and tortured for their beliefs.

Any one of them could find a suitable bicycle if they put their minds to it. The strength needed to survive what they have survived, really helps focus the mind.

So … thank you, OP, for your childish, ridiculous rant. You have helped me remember how much better I could be using my time.

Be well, and grow, and let go of your bad ideas and attitudes to make room for better ones. It is what I advise, because it is what I try to do.

Thank you.

PeteHski

Okay so there may be specific cases where a traditional touring bike would still be a better choice than a gravel bike. But clearly this is a niche market, which I imagine it always was anyway.

mstateglfr 

Definitely niche. And yeah, a gravel bike can work for a lot of situations. Also, many people like to use 8 different frame bags and small mount bags instead of simple panniers, so a traditional rack and panniers setup isnt necessary for everyone. Those 8 different bag setups hold less and place weight all over the frame, but calling that out as dumb for most touring situations can be for another thread.

Touring bikes are often customized by the owner to fit what they need- tire width, cassete size, chainring size, etc. So it wouldnt be wild to see a gravel bike be customized to make it work too. My old gravel bike is my commuter/tourer right now, but its a metal frame and fork and currently just has a front rack- so it shows a gravel bike can obviously be used as a tourer and it also shows the limitation of many gravel bikes(cant use a traditional front rack.

But anyways- for sure niche.

wolfchild

Many gravel bikes are also designed for bikepacking and many people use them for this purpose... Bikepacking is just a modern ultralight version of an old school bike touring and it involves a lot off road riding, so the bikes are built to handle and withstand harsh off road riding.

prj71

I wouldn't even go that far. In this day and age... I would shop online in my PJs with a cup of coffee and then press the order button.

cb400bill

Time to put this thread to rest.

/closed

mstateglfr 

The lock didn't take for some reason.