New Departure Skiptooth cog on other hub?
04-07-11, 06:15 AM
#1
Pants are for suckaz
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mt. Airy, MD
Posts: 2,578
Bikes: Hardtail MTB, Fixed gear, and Commuter bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
New Departure Skiptooth cog on other hub?
Howdy.
My neighbor has given me a 1951 Schwinn bike that is in rough shape. The frame is okay but the rims and spokes are pretty well shot. The bike has a "sweetheart" skiptooth chainring and a New Departure Model D coaster brake rear hub. I like the look of the skiptooth chainring and cog but I don't really build wheels and lack the funds to have someone else rebuild them. It would be cheaper to buy a new wheelset but I'd still like to use the skiptooth cog.
My questions are as follows:
(A) Can the cog be removed from the hub? Sheldon's site has some pics of an exploded hub but I can't tell what it takes to get the cog off. I haven't cleaned the grime off the one that was given to me yet.
(B) Assuming you can get the cog off, would it be compatible with any other (more modern and ideally less expensive) hubs? Matching threads/splines/whatever?
Exploded Diagram from Sheldon Brown
Also- Any tips on finding an inexpensive chain to use with these inch pitch skiptooth gears? I saw a few on ebay but i wasn't sure if there were other suppliers out there still making these chains?
My neighbor has given me a 1951 Schwinn bike that is in rough shape. The frame is okay but the rims and spokes are pretty well shot. The bike has a "sweetheart" skiptooth chainring and a New Departure Model D coaster brake rear hub. I like the look of the skiptooth chainring and cog but I don't really build wheels and lack the funds to have someone else rebuild them. It would be cheaper to buy a new wheelset but I'd still like to use the skiptooth cog.
My questions are as follows:
(A) Can the cog be removed from the hub? Sheldon's site has some pics of an exploded hub but I can't tell what it takes to get the cog off. I haven't cleaned the grime off the one that was given to me yet.
(B) Assuming you can get the cog off, would it be compatible with any other (more modern and ideally less expensive) hubs? Matching threads/splines/whatever?
Exploded Diagram from Sheldon Brown
Also- Any tips on finding an inexpensive chain to use with these inch pitch skiptooth gears? I saw a few on ebay but i wasn't sure if there were other suppliers out there still making these chains?
04-07-11, 02:50 PM
#2
Get off my lawn!
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 6,031
Bikes: 1917 Loomis, 1923 Rudge, 1930 Hercules Renown, 1947 Mclean, 1948 JA Holland, 1955 Hetchins, 1957 Carlton Flyer, 1962 Raleigh Sport, 1978&81 Raleigh Gomp GS', 2010 Raliegh Clubman
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 98 Times
in
48 Posts
Yes, the retainer is threded to the axle, New Departure made a wrench for the purpose, they come up on eBay on occassion. Don't know if the sproket pattern matches any other but you'd then have to replace the chainring too. The is a nice exploded view at www.nostalgic.net/arc/ScannedLit/1936NewDeparturePage1.jpg
04-07-11, 02:57 PM
#3
Cottered Crank
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,401
Bikes: 1954 Raleigh Sports 1974 Raleigh Competition 1969 Raleigh Twenty 1964 Raleigh LTD-3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
7 Posts
Soak that rim in Oxalic Acid (don't submerge the hub) and you would be amazed at how nice it looks when it is done. If the wheel is straight and true it is probably salvagable.
04-07-11, 06:57 PM
#4
Pants are for suckaz
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mt. Airy, MD
Posts: 2,578
Bikes: Hardtail MTB, Fixed gear, and Commuter bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Wheel is shot. Spokes are so rusted and loose that I'm pretty sure even if the nipples turn (which I doubt) they will snap long before any type of tension or true is achieved.
I got the retainer thing off (very carefully with a regular lockring spanner) but I can't budge the cog one way or the other. Anyone know if it's liek a FG bike where the lockring is reverse threaded and the cog spins on regular or are both parts reverse threaded. I'd hate to break it trying to get it apart but I'm going to have to add some elbow grease to get it to move.
I got the retainer thing off (very carefully with a regular lockring spanner) but I can't budge the cog one way or the other. Anyone know if it's liek a FG bike where the lockring is reverse threaded and the cog spins on regular or are both parts reverse threaded. I'd hate to break it trying to get it apart but I'm going to have to add some elbow grease to get it to move.
04-08-11, 05:49 AM
#5
Full Member
Hub threading
Morning Ryan,
The New Departure hub that I have has "normal" threads for the cog. In trying to get the cog off a Morrow hub,it has a the cog threaded on in a like manner, I did indeed break some internals unthreading it. What I have seen done, is to disassemble the hub and take the driver with the cog to a machine shop. They can then carefully and firmly clamp the driver into the jaws of a lathe. Then the cog can be tapped off using an aluminum or brass drift on the cog teeth. I am sure there are other ways to do this, but this is what i have seen done.
Remember the cog has been on there for a while and will be tight!! YMMV and remember, I broke some internals on a Morrow trying to get it off while the hub was assembled, so proceed with care.
The New Departure hub that I have has "normal" threads for the cog. In trying to get the cog off a Morrow hub,it has a the cog threaded on in a like manner, I did indeed break some internals unthreading it. What I have seen done, is to disassemble the hub and take the driver with the cog to a machine shop. They can then carefully and firmly clamp the driver into the jaws of a lathe. Then the cog can be tapped off using an aluminum or brass drift on the cog teeth. I am sure there are other ways to do this, but this is what i have seen done.
Remember the cog has been on there for a while and will be tight!! YMMV and remember, I broke some internals on a Morrow trying to get it off while the hub was assembled, so proceed with care.
04-08-11, 06:41 AM
#6
Pants are for suckaz
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mt. Airy, MD
Posts: 2,578
Bikes: Hardtail MTB, Fixed gear, and Commuter bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Thanks. I'm entertaining company this weekend so I'm not sure how much time I'll have to play with it but this info will certainly help me.
Why are skiptooth cogs and chainrings so sexy? There is just something about the way they look that I love.
Why are skiptooth cogs and chainrings so sexy? There is just something about the way they look that I love.
04-08-11, 12:54 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island (an obscure suburb of Connecticut)
Posts: 5,630
Bikes: one of each
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times
in
12 Posts
put some WD40 in it now and when your company goes away put a little heat on it with a torch.
04-08-11, 01:43 PM
#8
Wood
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Beaumont, Tx
Posts: 2,293
Bikes: Raleigh Sports: hers. Vianelli Professional & Bridgestone 300: mine
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times
in
10 Posts
Why are skiptooth cogs and chainrings so sexy? There is just something about the way they look that I love.
Welcome to the crowd.
04-08-11, 03:09 PM
#9
Designer
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,368
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
I wonder...
Is it possible to use a combination of skiptooth chainring and non-skiptooth cog?
I assume that if you use a non-skip chain it would work. Afterall, I've heard of some
people actually grinding down every other tooth on a modern cog to work with a skiptooth
drivetrain.
Is it possible to use a combination of skiptooth chainring and non-skiptooth cog?
I assume that if you use a non-skip chain it would work. Afterall, I've heard of some
people actually grinding down every other tooth on a modern cog to work with a skiptooth
drivetrain.
__________________
04-08-11, 08:35 PM
#10
Get off my lawn!
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 6,031
Bikes: 1917 Loomis, 1923 Rudge, 1930 Hercules Renown, 1947 Mclean, 1948 JA Holland, 1955 Hetchins, 1957 Carlton Flyer, 1962 Raleigh Sport, 1978&81 Raleigh Gomp GS', 2010 Raliegh Clubman
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 98 Times
in
48 Posts
Keep the skip tooth, you can find a workable chain for less than $50 on eBay, some times even NOS chain comes up and closes with only a single bidder. The high priced skip chain you see is usually the older block chain, I would assume yours used the roller chain. Be patient. Try soaking the gear in light penetrating oil and set up a little vibration. I but soaking parts in the top of the clothes washer or dryer when its running, the vibration seems to help alot. My last project, an early 1900's barn find took me over a year to get everything apart but it's cleaning up so well, I'll be able to reuse almost all the parts. Time is your friend with this one.
04-09-11, 05:49 AM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: vermont
Posts: 3,081
Bikes: Many
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
10 Posts
I made a chain whip tool for disassembling this old hub.
15 004 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr
I had to use a large industrial chain. Mine is an older block type but they work on the same cogs. I will try a few options at the shop this morning.
As with Velognome, I have six month to a year of soak time on the more challenging assemblies.
15 004 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr
I had to use a large industrial chain. Mine is an older block type but they work on the same cogs. I will try a few options at the shop this morning.
As with Velognome, I have six month to a year of soak time on the more challenging assemblies.
