good hub bearings
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
good hub bearings
My front (Roval CLX32) bearings are a bit gritty and you can feel they rotate quite slow (in hand).
I want to change them, and... question, to what?
(ceramic bearings for 50-100eur/pcs are out of question )
In my FS frames I used Enduro (max) always, but after reading that many ppl consider them just (above) average? I'll think more...
I want to change them, and... question, to what?
(ceramic bearings for 50-100eur/pcs are out of question )
- Some ppl say that Enduro bearings are 'just average', (Enduro Abec 5 61802 LLB -13.5eur)
- so maybe SKF (SKF 61802-2RS1 26eur)
- NTN then (~16eur for 6(1)802)?
- Have you heard about Cema ceramic bearings? (these are for about 22eur)
- DT Swiss 6802 ESB/ESNB L - ~10-15eur (I don't know who makes them)
- ISB ?
In my FS frames I used Enduro (max) always, but after reading that many ppl consider them just (above) average? I'll think more...
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,725
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5792 Post(s)
Liked 2,582 Times
in
1,432 Posts
Just about ANY commercial grade sealed bearing is more than adequate for your needs. Though they aren't as common, single sealed bearings have a (very) slight benefit of lower seal drag, and you don't need an inner seal anyway. But that's not to fret over either way. Commercial bearings are typically rated for 10,000+ hours of continuous duty in 3,600rpm electric motors, and are more than adequate to your needs. If you have concerns over rumors of poor quality for Enduro, consider skf or Fafnir, or any others.
In any case, I don't believe it's possible to wear out any of these on a bike UNLESS they're compromised by dirt or water. So seal quality and condition, and riding conditions become the major factors in service life.
In any case, I don't believe it's possible to wear out any of these on a bike UNLESS they're compromised by dirt or water. So seal quality and condition, and riding conditions become the major factors in service life.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Likes For FBinNY:
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
somehow... all bearings on bikes fail, in suspension sometimes even just after few months (if you live in wet place), and seals (LLU - full contant) are not able to stop all the moisture.
However, these are for my road bike and currently I live in a dry area (it rains once per 1-2 months I can ride my MTB at that time )
ok, too much thinking, I'll just get the once it's easiest to get (just not enduro this time)
However, these are for my road bike and currently I live in a dry area (it rains once per 1-2 months I can ride my MTB at that time )
ok, too much thinking, I'll just get the once it's easiest to get (just not enduro this time)
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,725
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5792 Post(s)
Liked 2,582 Times
in
1,432 Posts
This is why exposed "sealed" bearings don't hold up on bikes, especially mtn bikes. IME-they actually do a better job keeping water in than out.
So, do the best you can, and expect a sub-optimal service life.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Likes For FBinNY:
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I know that, it was just an answer to your statement "I don't believe it's possible to wear out any of these on a bike...."
yep, I ride my bikes only outside, I don't use home rollers.
still one question:
Have you heard about Cema ceramic bearings? (these are for about 22eur)
yep, I ride my bikes only outside, I don't use home rollers.
still one question:
Have you heard about Cema ceramic bearings? (these are for about 22eur)
#6
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,992
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6196 Post(s)
Liked 4,810 Times
in
3,318 Posts
Are you sure they are worn out. Or do they just have grit and sand in them.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Eastern Poland
Posts: 744
Bikes: Romet Jubilat x 4, Wigry x 1, Turing x 1
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked 204 Times
in
151 Posts
The problem is that when you get grit or sand in the bearings then removing those particles becomes problematic, whether or not they have caused any appreciable wear. The cages are quite good at catching the grit or sand, but then removing anything caught there is difficult, and once you can hear it it in there, then there is too much for the cages to carry.
#8
Senior Member
Any reasonably name brand bearing will be fine, but probably the best are bearing brands like NTN, SKF, NSK, ***, etc, many of which are manufactured in Japan. Ceramic mostly does not outperform high end steel bearings in this application except for extremely minor weight differences. DT bearings are pretty nice, I think the better ones are
Enduro makes/resells a LOT of products. They have such a presence in the bike industry both because they market to the bike industry and because they do design a number of products/bearings uniquely to the bike industry. Enduro MAX bearings for example are uniquely designed for suspension pivots, for example. For hub bearings probably the above recommendations are better, though in practice Enduro's bearings work perfectly well, especially their better stainless bearings.
If you ride in wet/gritty conditions decent, inexpensive bearings and replacing them more frequently will net you better performance than high end bearings run until they begin failing, though it's obviously annoying to have to do with excessive regularity.
Enduro makes/resells a LOT of products. They have such a presence in the bike industry both because they market to the bike industry and because they do design a number of products/bearings uniquely to the bike industry. Enduro MAX bearings for example are uniquely designed for suspension pivots, for example. For hub bearings probably the above recommendations are better, though in practice Enduro's bearings work perfectly well, especially their better stainless bearings.
If you ride in wet/gritty conditions decent, inexpensive bearings and replacing them more frequently will net you better performance than high end bearings run until they begin failing, though it's obviously annoying to have to do with excessive regularity.
Likes For cpach:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,904
Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2604 Post(s)
Liked 1,933 Times
in
1,213 Posts
Any reasonably name brand bearing will be fine, but probably the best are bearing brands like NTN, SKF, NSK, ***, etc, many of which are manufactured in Japan. Ceramic mostly does not outperform high end steel bearings in this application except for extremely minor weight differences. DT bearings are pretty nice, I think the better ones are
Is "***" a similarly named bearing company?
Likes For pdlamb:
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
interesingly, after removal those bearings didn't have gritty effect, they were smooth,
New mounted without a hassle.
New mounted without a hassle.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,725
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5792 Post(s)
Liked 2,582 Times
in
1,432 Posts
Bike people are constantly reminded about preload, which is fitting for classic cup/cone bearings. However the cartridge bearings typically used cannot tolerate any preload. They are usually deep groove radial bearings with correct preload built in. Axial preload f forces the balls against the sides of the races causing destructive wear.
If the hubs have any adjustability, via shims or otherwise, take up excess play, leaving a trace, but do not preload.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Likes For FBinNY:
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,674
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 839 Post(s)
Liked 1,062 Times
in
746 Posts
Likes For Crankycrank:
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,725
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5792 Post(s)
Liked 2,582 Times
in
1,432 Posts
Don't you love the auto-censor?
Think about the plight of folks who sell wood kindling.
Think about the plight of folks who sell wood kindling.
Likes For FBinNY:
#14
Senior Member
I've been thinking I might want to open a restaurant named, "I Don't Know." Figure that half the time someone's going out to eat, they start by asking someone else, "Where do you want to go?" followed by "I don't know." I'll make a killing.
Is "***" a similarly named bearing company?
Is "***" a similarly named bearing company?
With regard to "dust" versus "water" seals, I was not a bearing engineer, but my application used a "double-lip" seal, the inner lip kept in the grease, the outer lip kept out dust, and they both combined to keep out water.
Back in the day, for roller bearings, I bought Timken, but I don't think they made ball bearings, so for that it was New Departure Hyatt I think. "Doesn't anyone buy American anymore?" - Martin Blank, Grosse Point Blank
Last edited by Duragrouch; 02-09-24 at 04:33 AM.
#16
Senior Member
Likes For sweeks:
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,095
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4210 Post(s)
Liked 3,875 Times
in
2,315 Posts
This different preload and resulting feel is exactly the same with loose ball cup and cone angular contact bearings that most moderate and lower cost bike use these days (and were the standard across all price points only a couple decades ago). One can adjust the cup and cone bearings to freely spin even when well worn. It just takes reducing that preload enough. This is not the best way to service a cup and cone bearing but a method I (and many other mechanics) have done on so many poorly assembled and maintained bikes during tune ups. One aspect of servicing that a pro has a better understanding of is the "good enough" point and trading off cost of service against perceived benefits. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
Last edited by Andrew R Stewart; 02-11-24 at 10:15 AM.
#19
Really Old Senior Member
Likes For Bill Kapaun:
#20
Senior Member
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,725
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5792 Post(s)
Liked 2,582 Times
in
1,432 Posts
Separated they would translate to:
Cast steel ball manufacturer.
But Germans like to combine multiple words when describing a single thing, like the way we say railroad, instead of rail road in english. For example while we say train station, Germans would say trainstation. (bahnhof), and maintrainstation.
Last edited by FBinNY; 02-11-24 at 09:01 PM.
#22
Senior Member
It has 3 sss because its actually 4 words. So you have the last 2 from guss and the first one from stahl.
Separated they would translate to:
Cast steel ball manufacturer.
But Germans like to combine multiple words when describing a single thing, like the way we say railroad, instead of rail road in english. For example while we say train station, Germans would say trainstation. (bahnhof), and maintrainstation.
Separated they would translate to:
Cast steel ball manufacturer.
But Germans like to combine multiple words when describing a single thing, like the way we say railroad, instead of rail road in english. For example while we say train station, Germans would say trainstation. (bahnhof), and maintrainstation.
#24
Senior Member
(When commenting about inferior USA primary school education, versus Germany and Japan) "They think that with a fax, the paper is sent through the telephone lines. Idiots! Only the INK goes through the wires!" - Dave Barry
Likes For Duragrouch:
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 982
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 506 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 639 Times
in
357 Posts
While your statement is basically true, the time to failure can vary widely depending on bearing seal design, bearing quality, and maintenance. I'm used to not having to replace bearings over many tens of thousands of miles. But then I ride Campagnolo exclusively. YMMV