From Alfine 8 to Kindernay XIV - thru axle to solid, verify chainline
03-04-23, 07:52 PM
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
From Alfine 8 to Kindernay XIV - thru axle to solid, verify chainline
I have a Bullitt cargo bike with an Alfine 8 internal gear hub and a gates carbon belt. I'd like to switch it over to a Kindernay XIV with a belt. The kindernay comes with a 12mm thru-axle which I'd prefer to convert (somehow) to a solid axle. The dropouts on the bullitt keep tension with the belt. I could switch to a thru-axle dropout but then I'd need a tensioner for the belt.
Chainline - Kindernay says its 45.5mm. Its been harder to find info on the Alfine 8 igh and crank buuuuut I did find 42.7mm referenced in a couple of places. The crank is model number FC-S501. Seems like a spacer might be worthwhile - https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-Ho...BB-Spacer-18mm
Anyone have experience in these matters? Once I get this squared away I can get on with the build.
Thanks,
Matt
Chainline - Kindernay says its 45.5mm. Its been harder to find info on the Alfine 8 igh and crank buuuuut I did find 42.7mm referenced in a couple of places. The crank is model number FC-S501. Seems like a spacer might be worthwhile - https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-Ho...BB-Spacer-18mm
Anyone have experience in these matters? Once I get this squared away I can get on with the build.
Thanks,
Matt
03-04-23, 10:18 PM
#2
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,535
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4358 Post(s)
Liked 3,996 Times
in
2,667 Posts
So are you saying they sell a thru-axle drop out because that is what you would need to run a thru-axle hub. Otherwise find a hub that does QR or Bolt-On and the 135mm spacing you need. If they don't sell one, Rohloff is a solid reliable bet for bolt on or QR (I have one of their QR hubs as we speak). In terms of chainline I have never worried about that on any bike ever. I would check with Gates and your hub manufacturer and see what they recommend if it is giving you issues, if not I wouldn't worry about it.
If they do sell a Thru-axle dropout for a bike that runs belt driven IGHs then there has got to be a way to tension the belt without a tensioner. You will potentially want a snubber for the belt to prevent it from coming off but I would doubt they wouldn't sell something that can give tension. You don't need much movement once you get the cog and belt length situation figured out but usually they have a little bit of movement somehow.
If they do sell a Thru-axle dropout for a bike that runs belt driven IGHs then there has got to be a way to tension the belt without a tensioner. You will potentially want a snubber for the belt to prevent it from coming off but I would doubt they wouldn't sell something that can give tension. You don't need much movement once you get the cog and belt length situation figured out but usually they have a little bit of movement somehow.
03-04-23, 10:57 PM
#3
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
Facebook Post
" data-width="500" data-show-text="true" data-lazy="true">
Facebook Post " class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore">Facebook Post
Otherwise find a hub that does QR or Bolt-On and the 135mm spacing you need. If they don't sell one, Rohloff is a solid reliable bet for bolt on or QR (I have one of their QR hubs as we speak). In terms of chainline I have never worried about that on any bike ever. I would check with Gates and your hub manufacturer and see what they recommend if it is giving you issues, if not I wouldn't worry about it.
If they do sell a Thru-axle dropout for a bike that runs belt driven IGHs then there has got to be a way to tension the belt without a tensioner. You will potentially want a snubber for the belt to prevent it from coming off but I would doubt they wouldn't sell something that can give tension. You don't need much movement once you get the cog and belt length situation figured out but usually they have a little bit of movement somehow.
03-04-23, 11:09 PM
#4
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,535
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4358 Post(s)
Liked 3,996 Times
in
2,667 Posts
I would check with LvsH but it does look like possibly there is some movement but that could be my eyes deceiving me and maybe they are fixed plates.
No.. Don't do any odd conversions it is just not needed. The whole point of Kindernay was a Thru-axle Rohloff basically but Rohloff is a way better platform in your case as it is a known reliable system with good support behind it and ease of finding parts. I like Kindernay and am all for them and hope they continue and grow exponentially but they have zero advantage if needing to be converted to QR. Now if the bike was set up for sliding thru-axle dropouts and it was Rohloff vs Kindernay., I would say Kindernay all the way no question, Rohloff doesn't do a proper thru-axle set up they do an adapter for their old reliable hub but it isn't technically thru-axle just potentially compatible with the dropouts.
I have the snubber on my bike and have had zero issues with it aside from it once getting a little squeaky but that was solved with a regreasing and zero issues since and if I found a sealed bearing of the same size or very close and a way to bolt it on that would end that potentially issue. It is not really going to do a whole lot in the end unless somehow the belt comes loose which is tough.
No.. Don't do any odd conversions it is just not needed. The whole point of Kindernay was a Thru-axle Rohloff basically but Rohloff is a way better platform in your case as it is a known reliable system with good support behind it and ease of finding parts. I like Kindernay and am all for them and hope they continue and grow exponentially but they have zero advantage if needing to be converted to QR. Now if the bike was set up for sliding thru-axle dropouts and it was Rohloff vs Kindernay., I would say Kindernay all the way no question, Rohloff doesn't do a proper thru-axle set up they do an adapter for their old reliable hub but it isn't technically thru-axle just potentially compatible with the dropouts.
I have the snubber on my bike and have had zero issues with it aside from it once getting a little squeaky but that was solved with a regreasing and zero issues since and if I found a sealed bearing of the same size or very close and a way to bolt it on that would end that potentially issue. It is not really going to do a whole lot in the end unless somehow the belt comes loose which is tough.
Likes For Dan Burkhart:
04-14-23, 04:44 AM
#6
Full Member
Yes, it's the same hub just with different axles. The 135/10 uses a 10 mm QR thru bolt axle, which is unusual, but fits any standard 135 frame afaik. In terms of holding the wheel securely in horisontal dropouts (forward-facing) or track ends (rear facing) my guess is that the 10 mm QR is somewhere between a 5 mm QR and a solid threaded axle with nuts.
04-14-23, 08:49 PM
#7
Newbie
Well, not experience in you particular application, but I did just build a belt drive rohloff set up. So here is what i know.
Gates is VERY specific in the requirements for the belt set up to work. I think it was .012" inch of radial (roundy round) run out and .040" of axial (side to side) runout. With a max offset of 1mm (.040") They have charts available on their website with the Alfine * specs. Alfine 8 is either 43.7 or 45.5 mm. page 58 of 82 in the Gates tech manual.
That being said, even though I used high quality cranks, (Sugino RD2 track) and genuine gates sprockets, I still had to indicate, and tap the front sprocket around on the crank spider for radial runout. And for axial runout I had to shim the crank bolts. (bought pre made circular shims from Mcmaster Carr) Figuring out the beltline was the single most difficult part of the whole build. I researched very carefully the sprockets, the offsets, DI2 front, and narrow rear, there is also some offset built into the gates sprockets that is shown on the blueprints portions of their documents. These are important.
IF you have a square taper bottom bracket, it IS appropriate/possible to shim the drive side cups further out from the BB a mm or two. Remember that square taper BB are available in different lengths and this can be used for belt line adjustments also.
Although it was a yelping female dog to get set up, I really like it now. I'll give a durability review in about 10 years or so....
Gates is VERY specific in the requirements for the belt set up to work. I think it was .012" inch of radial (roundy round) run out and .040" of axial (side to side) runout. With a max offset of 1mm (.040") They have charts available on their website with the Alfine * specs. Alfine 8 is either 43.7 or 45.5 mm. page 58 of 82 in the Gates tech manual.
That being said, even though I used high quality cranks, (Sugino RD2 track) and genuine gates sprockets, I still had to indicate, and tap the front sprocket around on the crank spider for radial runout. And for axial runout I had to shim the crank bolts. (bought pre made circular shims from Mcmaster Carr) Figuring out the beltline was the single most difficult part of the whole build. I researched very carefully the sprockets, the offsets, DI2 front, and narrow rear, there is also some offset built into the gates sprockets that is shown on the blueprints portions of their documents. These are important.
IF you have a square taper bottom bracket, it IS appropriate/possible to shim the drive side cups further out from the BB a mm or two. Remember that square taper BB are available in different lengths and this can be used for belt line adjustments also.
Although it was a yelping female dog to get set up, I really like it now. I'll give a durability review in about 10 years or so....
