Robvolz 

I do not know if they ship or not, but last time I was in Seattle at the Cycle Recyclers (I'm sure the name is similar) they had a bucket of used forks including a flat crown with MASI panto'd on top.

It might have been red. (I'm colorblind, so color memory is not the best.)

Good luck.

heidelbergensis 

I received the Masi right as I was finishing up work today. Can't remember the last time I was this excited to unbox something..



I unboxed it and ogled the frameset in my hands, then quickly set about cleaning off the accumulated road grime, attacking the lug lines and little nooks with q-tips and toothpicks. I found a minor dent in the top tube, which bummed me out, as the frameset was sold as clean and without dents or cracks of any kind. Eventually, though, I started noticing things that progressively got me much more worried.





Next was this crimping on the seat tube. Initially, I thought this might have been from something being clamped into place. But it doesn't seem to be uniform, along with having ridges that I can feel it pretty clearly on the inside of the tube with my finger. So maybe buckling from impact, more likely?




The NDS seatstay is subtly but very noticeably bent. Once you see it, can't unsee it.




And then, finally, I noticed that the DS dropout is cracked...

Needless to say, I don't feel comfortable riding this frameset. Very sad right now, and a bit worried about how the seller will respond, as we settled up privately outside of eBay...

Kabuki12

Hopefully there will be a reasonable resolution to this. It most certainly doesn’t match the description that was given when you purchased it. I’m not sure how the frame could be fixed without some witness of the damage, if it can be done , it will be expensive. I’m bummed for you , this would be a major disappointment.

repechage

Don’t match the description very well.
‘the seat tube I think shows trauma of a stuck seat post removal.
‘the seat stay… crash repair straightening, bummer (can be used but changes the whole deal.
the crack in the dropout is perhaps a flaw from the forging, Maybe. Strip the paint and….?

I would unwind the deal. Big $ to correct.

Dishonest

heidelbergensis 

Kabuki12 & repechage thank you very much for the input here. Contacted the buyer immediately after finding the above issues this afternoon and haven't had a response. Hopefully tomorrow...

merziac

Yikes, agree with the above, should have gone through efbay, good luck.

I'm in the middle of the same from on here, thought Paypal would help but they sided with the seller, ef me, I knew better and still couldn't help myself.

Bad Lag

If I'd paid good money for that frame I would be very disappointed.

My bike has lots of flaws but I put them there.

The seat tube, chain stay and drop out are just not okay.

merziac

True that.

mpetry912 

Sorry to read this. That bike needs a complete going over by Rob Roberson or someone of that skill level.

if you bought it outside of ebay you probably have little recourse other than the seller's goodwill, sorry to say.

this I think is the problem with buying a bike or frame based on a few carefully curated pictures offered by a seller who may have an intent to deceive.

Interested to know if there was any representation of the frame's integrity or damage history in the original Ebay listing ?

to me, in current condition, that frame is "worth" less than 500 bucks based on what it would take to put right.

Like a porsche turbo that has been heavily crashed and sold on a salvage title

/markp

majmt 

Was this from the original listing?
———————-
“This bike has been damaged in the past and repaired, an is not fully original. I purchased this bike several years ago in a repaired state, so I do not know all of the details. It was either crashed, or driven into a garage (by a previous owner. There is damage to the fork steerer (see pics); I drilled a small hole in the steerer where a small crack existed in order to stop it's spread. Ive put approximately 1,100 miles on the bike and the crack has not grown. I'm assuming that the head tube was also replaced as the lower head tube lug does not match what should have been a '74 frame - it has a slightly new lug. As I said, I dont
know what all was repaired.”
————————

Sounds like the seller tossed out enough red flags there but really should’ve provided a better inspection and detailed photos. Not quite a diamond in the rough but maybe cubic zirconia? Nice fork anyway if the seller won’t step up.

repechage

there were disclaimers BUT, there was some real avoidance of obvious faults on the frame. The damaged seat stay and all the trauma to the seat tube. Yes, imaged the fork steerer but the only ‘pass’ I would give might be the dropout, maybe. Dishonest by omission. Maybe the better plan when going outside eBay would be to ask for a comprehensive image set of the other aspects of the frame not in the eBay listing.

mpetry912 

=======================================
“This bike has been damaged in the past and repaired, an is not fully original. I purchased this bike several years ago in a repaired state, so I do not know all of the details. It was either crashed, or driven into a garage (by a previous owner. There is damage to the fork steerer (see pics); I drilled a small hole in the steerer where a small crack existed in order to stop it's spread. Ive put approximately 1,100 miles on the bike and the crack has not grown. I'm assuming that the head tube was also replaced as the lower head tube lug does not match what should have been a '74 frame - it has a slightly new lug. As I said, I dont know what all was repaired.”
=======================================

If that is the seller's disclosure than the buyer had ample warning in my view.

there was a posting years ago by Brian Baylis about a repair to a Confente frame and what he had to do to put it right. And I'm not saying this one could not be put right also, although the number of framebuilders who are capable and interested in doing that kind of work is diminishing by the day.

heidelbergensis I do hope you did not pay too much for this frame, because it needs $2000 or more worth of repairs.

and I think the seller did a pretty fair disclosure, if that paragraph above is from the original ad.

/markp


/markp

heidelbergensis 

Here's the full original listing description from eBay:
The seller responded, and it looks like I'm going to return the frameset for a full refund. I think that they honestly did not notice the issues, as they purchased the frameset in its current condition and rode it without thinking about it too much. But, as you can see, the original listing hinges on that last sentence. It's just not in the condition as advertised. mpetry912 Thankfully, I paid $450 shipped, so a great deal on the GC by any means - but again, it was based on that description above. I wouldn't have pursued the purchase otherwise if these issues had been detailed in the original listing. I might also add that $450 is not an insignificant sum of money on a translator's salary.

I would be inclined to accept a partial refund and do the same as the seller did (i.e. ride the sh*t out of it) if it weren't for that crack in the dropout. There's no telling when that developed - could've been on the last ride that the seller did on the Masi before breaking it down for sale. I don't want to proceed with the partial refund option and then have the dropout fail, potentially also causing an accident.

I do appreciate that this frameset deserves to be restored, but, as I'm currently already restoring a bike and having a custom bike built for me, I can't afford to take on another project like this, much as I'd like to find a way to keep and ride this GC.

repechage

Reads promising.

the issue with the dropout, apprehension is the best view I think.
who knows when this surfaced, I do not think it would lead to a dangerous failure but not cheap.

an early bike from the Carlsbad plant, but lived a dramatic life.

Bad Lag

I think getting a full refund is a good idea.

As an aside, how would it be repaired?

1. Can the chain stay end be de-brazed from the bottom bracket without damage to the bottom bracket?

2. Could just the chain stay and cracked drop out be removed and replaced?

3. Would it require removing both the seat and chain stays?

#3 sounds the most straight-forward but is also the most torch work - bottom bracket, seat lug, brake bridge.

Can seat stay be reused or will the repeated heating damage it?

Can one still get a matching Campi drop out?

mpetry912 

My personal opinion is that it's beyond economical repair.

meaning you would be better off looking for a frame in good condition

would need a full repair with several tubes replaced + paint

Assuming you really want it to be as good as a vintage Masi can be

in any case you are out the price of the shipping both ways which is half what you paid for it.

I am glad the seller was so obliging.as to let you return the frame for refund. ! "As is, where is"

if there is damage disclosed, be a skeptical buyer ! Don't let wishful thinking get the better of you.

/markp

heidelbergensis 

mpetry912 Yeah, I would sadly agree re. the repairability. Seems like at least the first component of "kinetic sculpture" can no longer can be applied to this particular Masi. Would make a great display piece. Unfortunately, I need something I can ride.

I've been having extraordinarily bad "bike luck" the past few years - and particularly recently, it seems everything I acquire via eBay ends up having some kind of issue. This is not so much an issue with components as it is with framesets or completes. It also didn't used to be this way. I think I've finally learned my lesson with this Masi. That being said, local marketplaces like CL or Facebook, etc, have dried up with regards to interesting C&V finds...

Kabuki12

I am glad that you will come out of this Ok. I would still be bummed If I came that close to owning a "grail" bike , as I am sure you are. Good Luck , and pedal on .

mpetry912 

heidelbergensis It's a jungle out there buddy.

problem is you can only base your evaluation on a few pics and a seller's description.

Always get a 2nd opinion if you have the slightest doubt. I suggest you "crowd source" your reviews of any future purpose

the good folks here will be happy to share their opinion and pick it apart.like vultures on a carcass

/markp

repechage

seat stay is the one with the chicane.
that can be replaced, so can the seat tube
the dropout also, non drive side parts are easier to locate.

do all that and paint, maybe remove the later top tube guides-

far beyond a reasonable expenditure.

mpetry912 

Exactly right. And that does not even count the repairs under the existing paint. Downtube was likely replaced. Fork is marginal.

and then get the whole thing straightened out. Far better to get Rob Roberson to build you a GC replica.

/markp

Bad Lag

Ah, my mistake. I did not look closely enough.

That it is a seat stay would make it easier, no?

For some reason, I am not so worried about the seat tube. Of course, I cannot see inside it.

Bad Lag

Does the seller even want the bike back?

If so, they should pay for the shipping. They are the one who made the erroneous (fraudulent) posting. It should not cost you anything to recover from their attempted fraud.

merziac

Lets keep in mind the return is not a done deal, based on whats already transpired it may not get there, fool me once......

mpetry912 

Sure, I'll send the refund when I receive the frame.

sure. hope springs eternal

/markp