tFUnK

This is a good question. Data suggests aero but I personally find it more satisfying to ride a super light bike on which I can feel my acceleration efforts instantly, as opposed to the 10s saved over 2 miles on a heavier but more aero bike.

mschwett 

there's also a word for people who make broad generalizations and call others names without knowing or caring about their circumstances or accomplishments...

i mean seriously, if someone puts the work and commitment in to hammer away at a course hundreds of times, gradually improving their fitness, form, equpiment... or rides longer and longer distances unsupported, seeing new places and meeting new people, or any other way they choose to vigorously enjoy the sport regardless of the presence of other riders to draft with or race against, who are you to say they're a poser? it's no wonder so many people think cyclists are dicks.

Koyote

Oh, come on, it is a bit silly when you think about it. We've done enough arguing on this forum to know that shaving even seemingly large amounts of mass from a bike will have a trivial effect on speed in most circumstances, and even spending big money on aero equipment (e.g., wheels) will have an effect that is pretty much imperceptible when combined with larger factors like wind, terrain, rest level, etc. We're talking about thousands of dollars worth of equipment saving a few seconds on a typical ride -- if that much. I mean, it barely makes sense even for an amateur who's entering lots of races; for a person who's doing recreational solo rides, it just makes me smile and shake my head.

Note that I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money -- in fact, in the "biggest wastes of money" thread, I pushed back the hardest on the notion that anyone should tell anyone else how to spend their own cash. If people want to buy fancy high-end cycling equipment to go out on solo rides and never ever race, have at it. Most of us are ego-driven in so much of our consumption, from the clothes we wear to the autos we drive to the jewelry we strap onto ourselves-- so why not ride bikes that make us seem 'cool'? Just don't fool yourself into believing that there's some instrumental reason for it -- especially if you never pin on a number.

rsbob 

I have zero aspiration to look or be ‘cool’ and frankly am not. The car and the bike I own is because I enjoy their look and their performance. As I have aged out of trying to impress or trying to look cool, I have realized that most people could care less about what I own or don’t own since they have their own lives and priorities to worry about. People will always have better or worse and that is life. As soon as people realize that, especially teens and 20 year olds,and lose their judgement, the happier they will be. I don’t need a number or feel the need to justify my choices to anyone.

Koyote

1) Why does the virtually imperceptible increase in performance matter to you?
2) Do you really believe that your aesthetic preferences ("I enjoy their look") are your own, that they arose in a vacuum? That they were not influenced by marketing, peer effects, the choices of pro cyclists? Really? If so, your lack of self-awareness makes you a marketer's dream. It also means that, like most people, you are ignorant of a vast academic literature (much of it empirical) on the topic.

rsbob 

I owe you zero explanations for anything I do or like. Only my wife gets that privilege. The anonymity of the internet obviously provides you with a safe place to attack and be condescending but I will not take the bait. Try someone else.

Koyote

You've answered my questions with this post.

(Note that I'm not claiming any superiority on this. For anyone to claim to be uninfluenced by society's expectations and norms is to deny the very meaning of the word "society.")

superdex

The dude in this case?

bbbean 

Such a mensch you are. We are so lucky to have you hear to point out our petty weaknesses and flaws. Please, tell us more!

Chandne

I do prefer lighter bikes and wheels in general. They seem to be quicker to accelerate and climb, and generally not as stiff. If I every bought a new carbon bike again, it would be a 14-15 lb Specialized Aethos or something similar but I am quite content with my heavy-ish Ti bike since it has light wheels. Still, I find myself slowly being drawn into weight-weenieism. Luckily, my BMC is around 16 lbs so I would not gain much by going to sub 15.

Koyote

Okay, since you asked: it's here, not hear.

Eric F 

Speaking only for myself, you're missing subjective factors that are important - feel and appearance. I am long done with racing, and my biggest competitive moments these days is trying to beat my buddy (or not get dropped, maybe) on the final climb on our weekly group ride, or trying to get to the finish of a long gravel event before my body fails me. I ride high-end bikes because I've been riding long enough to recognize the subtle differences in ride quality between decent and excellent machines, and those are feelings I enjoy when I ride at the level I am capable of at this point in time. Would I be just as fast on a heavier, cheaper bike? Maybe. Maybe not. If I can afford the better/lighter bike, and can appreciate the differences of a better/lighter bike when I'm riding, that's every justification I need for riding the better/lighter bike. Additionally, appearance excites me and is a motivator. A hot-looking frame, built with high-quality parts is attractive to me in exactly the same way a hot sports car is - I wanna get on/in it and go!

Eric F 

My aesthetic preferences for bike appearance has definitely been influenced by pro's bikes. This was also largely influenced by my dad also getting exited by looking at pro's bikes. So what? Why does it matter how I have come to feel the way I feel?

Koyote

I think my post, which has inspired some argument, did qualify my comments as applying to those who are doing solo recreational rides -- i.e., not even doing spirited group rides and such. So I do understand your point. And I can allow that even solo rides can include performance goals...During Covid, when most races weren't happening, I got into going after Strava KOMs as a way to keep sharp and motivated.

The question you've posed is always worth asking, in my opinion. Especially in the context of the thread's original post -- which was so long ago that most have probably now forgotten!

seypat

Are there carbon wheels out there that don't make any noise? Do they come with silent hubs? Not asking for a friend.

mschwett 

i’m sure we’re all glad that you don’t actually consider anyone who doesn’t do group rides a “poser,” but that isn’t what you wrote.

Koyote

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say...but I did write this:

So far, Eric F is the only person to respond with substance; other responses have been vitriolic. I find that rather telling.

Eric F 

Whether I'm with others or not, riding with a training intent or not, or trying to set a PR on a local segment or not, my appreciation for the high-performance ride characteristics of my bike doesn't change. Those ride characteristics is where the value is to me. If I make a change of wheels, tires, bar tape, chain lube, etc., it's about tweaking something to suit my preferences a little better. Maybe there's a performance component to the change, as well. Maybe not. The only person it matters to is me.


Fine, but who are any of us to judge why another person has a different aesthetic preference? Some folks look at classic steel touring bikes with racks and fenders and get excited. I don't get it at all, but it's not my place to tell them their feelings are wrong just because they aren't the same as mine. If someone likes riding racy bikes, but hasn't ever actually raced, that doesn't automatically make them a "poser". It might just mean they have a preference for that aesthetic.

EDIT: Appearance preferences can also be influenced by - for lack of a better term - "tribalism". Especially when I was new to the roadie scene after years of being only a MTB'er, I wanted to fit in on group rides I was new to, so I wore the same/similar kit to what others were wearing, rather than the MTB team kit I would usually wear in the dirt (also "tribally" influenced). I suppose this could apply to bikes, as well. People may well be influenced in the bike/gear choices by what they see around them, especially if they participate in group events. I wouldn't characterize any of this as being a "poser". As this young rider gained experience, and tried different things, I figured out what works best for me and what doesn't, and make my decisions based on my own parameters...but we all had to start somewhere. I'm going though some of that again with gravel riding. I'm looking at what the top pros are using and how they have their bikes set up. I'm talking to other riders about their preferences and experiences (thank you for your input, in that regard) so that I can improve my own learning curve. I'm experimenting and figuring out what I like...and what I don't.

mschwett 

yes, you wrote that after you were called out on your original statement, which quite clearly labeled anyone who doesn’t race or ride in groups a poser. my response was also substantive - the substance was to clearly describe modes of enjoying the sport which had nothing to do with groups and would be a stretch at best to label for “posers.”

you made a statement, now you’re trying to walk it back because it’s so clearly ignorant and narrow minded.

Eric F 

It's my understanding that Big Carbon Wheel demands that all carbon wheels will be built only with obnoxiously loud freehubs. If you record the sound of a freehub on a carbon wheel, and slow the recording down enough, you can hear that it's actually saying the words, "Look at me! Look at me!"

mschwett 

it’s so obnoxious! i have two sets of roval carbon wheels - one terra CLX and one alpinist CLX II. the former are actually really quiet. audible in some circumstances but not in others. the alpinists, on the other hand, seem to go from moderately audible to annoying and loud AF depending on some unknown factors which at least partially include the status of the grease. once i removed the cassette and driver and put it right back on and it got super quiet 😂

Koyote

Incorrect. Here is the full post; note the "poser" comment along with the snippet about group rides -- in the same post.

I'm not walking anything back. It was all right there. But you seem to have grossly misread my post: I have not "labeled anyone who doesn’t race or ride in groups a poser." If you cannot understand the difference between that statement, and what I actually wrote, then that may explain your anger.

mschwett 

don’t worry, i’m not angry. i’ll clarify it correct my statement - you have labeled everyone who wonders whether one piece of equipment is faster or slower but doesn’t ride in groups or race a poser. still entirely consistent with the behavior of a small minority of cyclists who give the sport a bad name.

…a poster asks whether this or that little bit of equipment will make him a little bit faster, and there is no mention of racing or even challenging group rides. There's a word for such riders, and it rhymes with 'hoser.

Eric F 

You originally included the qualifier of someone asking about equipment that will make them faster. Regardless, I still strongly disagree with your characterization. Going fast is fun. Girls just wanna have fun. So do MAMILs.

Koyote

At least now you seem to understand my post -- now that you've 'walked back' your claim in post #144.