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Carbon rims for touring

Old 08-30-21, 08:15 AM
  #26  
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Yea. by comparison I did not have any flats. I am a firm believer in the Schwalbe Marathon tires.

He is not like a bull in a china shop. He is actually quite good on his equipment. I think it is the tires, honestly. He had the same pair during our tour of the Empire State Trail where he also had around 8-10 flats. So the tires supposedly are tacky and they pick up stuff along the way... that was the explanation during the Empire State Trail... by the Denmark tour the tires had about 1500 miles on it so the explanation was that they are worn... neither really convinced me 100%.as to be the cause.

One thing is for sure - he is pretty good and using plugs in his tubeless setup. No need to remove the wheel or patch the tube. Just pop a plug in, spin the wheel, pump more air and keep going :-)
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Old 08-30-21, 08:29 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by PedalingWalrus View Post
Yea. by comparison I did not have any flats. I am a firm believer in the Schwalbe Marathon tires.

He is not like a bull in a china shop. He is actually quite good on his equipment. I think it is the tires, honestly. He had the same pair during our tour of the Empire State Trail where he also had around 8-10 flats. So the tires supposedly are tacky and they pick up stuff along the way... that was the explanation during the Empire State Trail... by the Denmark tour the tires had about 1500 miles on it so the explanation was that they are worn... neither really convinced me 100%.as to be the cause.

One thing is for sure - he is pretty good and using plugs in his tubeless setup. No need to remove the wheel or patch the tube. Just pop a plug in, spin the wheel, pump more air and keep going :-)
that's right, I remember now him getting a flat right off the bat at the start.
ya, it does make me wonder about them, although a quick look at the schwalbe site shows one flavour of the g1 has less stated protection..

great that the tubeless thing works, but for me I'd clearly want a tougher tire. I mean I love a nice rolling tire but.........
thanks
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Old 08-30-21, 09:51 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I do not have first hand experience, but it is my understanding that special tools may be needed to install and remove tubeless tires from carbon rims. Do your research first on how to do it right.
Some tire/rim combinations are especially tight, but this is true with traditional clincher tires too, and has nothing to do with carbon rims per se. The only special tool you might need is a tire jack.
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Old 08-30-21, 10:28 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
I doubt you'd see speeds on a loaded tourer where aero rims would make a difference. Maybe old school thinking on my part.
I have had a fully loaded touring tandem going 45 MPH down a long steep hill on the Isle of Lewis in the Outer Hebrides. First rule of touring in Scotland is "what goes down must come up", and we wanted as much of a head start as possible coming back up the hill on the other side.

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Old 08-31-21, 07:07 AM
  #30  
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I have a tumbleweed prospector that I built up a couple of years ago. The whole project started when I picked up an almost new Rohloff speed hub on kijiji. I didn't realize that it was a 36 hole hub until I had it home. I wanted a 27.5 wheel, so I had to find a wide 27.5 rim 36 hole rim. The only one I could find was a carbon rim direct from China and it took weeks to get here. So I now have the lightest 36 hole rim with the heaviest hub you can find. Seems to be working out okay. I've ridden it down the Forestry Trunk Road in Alberta and it is my go to mountain bike until I can find a new suspension bike.

I haven't had any problems with installing and changing tubeless tires on that rim. I did have problems on the front alloy rim, but that was because I used gorilla tape instead of proper rim tape. The gorilla tape is thicker and wider, and it was very difficult to lever the bead away from the rim because it was binding with the tape.
A dumb mistake on my part.

Last edited by skookum; 08-31-21 at 07:11 AM. Reason: more info
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Old 08-31-21, 12:05 PM
  #31  
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Skookum, that is funny isn't it, lightest rim and heavy rohlof hub.

personally I've never ridden on carbon rims, but if guys 100lbs heavier than me can ride them with no issues and mtbikers bash the crap out of them, I could see that they'd be fine for me.
Let's face it, it's partially a money thing (would rather spend the money on a lighter tent or whatever) plus the old age thing of tourers generally going for a cost / performance / practical balance, especially given that we tend not to ride fast average speeds.
re speeds, sure I've hit 80, 90k on downhills, but regular day in day out touring speeds are very very average. Sure less weight is nice, but at what actual dollar cost.
I'm happy with tried and true stuff that I own, and use 1 or 2000 bucks on a plane ticket and accommodation on a long trip and have a neat adventure, even if 5 or 10lbs heavier than a carbon bike.
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Old 08-31-21, 01:34 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
240 lbs bike and me touring

20H front and 28H rear carbon

Over 50,000 miles.

No problems. No need to true wheels.

Carbon rims are much better than aluminum
on nice beautiful paved roads I guess
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Old 08-31-21, 07:02 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Skookum, that is funny isn't it, lightest rim and heavy rohlof hub.

personally I've never ridden on carbon rims, but if guys 100lbs heavier than me can ride them with no issues and mtbikers bash the crap out of them, I could see that they'd be fine for me.
Let's face it, it's partially a money thing (would rather spend the money on a lighter tent or whatever) plus the old age thing of tourers generally going for a cost / performance / practical balance, especially given that we tend not to ride fast average speeds.
re speeds, sure I've hit 80, 90k on downhills, but regular day in day out touring speeds are very very average. Sure less weight is nice, but at what actual dollar cost.
I'm happy with tried and true stuff that I own, and use 1 or 2000 bucks on a plane ticket and accommodation on a long trip and have a neat adventure, even if 5 or 10lbs heavier than a carbon bike.
I think we are on the same page.

I was thinking I should get a titanium bottle cage for the bike then I would have steel, aluminum, carbon fibre and titanium all on the same bike.

I saw a video of Danny MacAskill trying to destroy carbon rims and there is not a chance I could put that much stress on a wheel. So I think I am okay.
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Old 09-01-21, 05:54 AM
  #34  
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I am too cheap to spring for the price tag, but otherwise if I were building up a no holds barred UL touring bike, I'd use carbon rims in a heartbeat. I am at the point in my life where I guess I could indulge myself a bit more, but the habits of pinching pennies dies hard. Cut me loose in a warehouse full of bike parts to build up my next bike and it would probably have carbon rims.

Don't get me wrong I am not filthy rich or anything, but could buy a really nice bike, pay "cash", and not feel the pinch. None of my bikes are expensive by the standards of what folks here tend to buy. I think they'd all be considered entry level or old junk. My gear is generally the same with a slight splurge here and there (like a nice sleeping bag or other nice item here and there). One advantage is that if everything ever goes missing on a tour I won't have any trouble replacing it all. It is nice to have a bike and gear that I could write a check or pay with a debit card to replace the lot of it.
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Old 09-01-21, 07:10 AM
  #35  
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I only know one person with carbon rims, he only bought them last winter. But he treats every ride like a race, I generally avoid riding with him.

Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
...
Don't get me wrong I am not filthy rich or anything, but could buy a really nice bike, pay "cash", and not feel the pinch. None of my bikes are expensive by the standards of what folks here tend to buy. I think they'd all be considered entry level or old junk. My gear is generally the same with a slight splurge here and there (like a nice sleeping bag or other nice item here and there). One advantage is that if everything ever goes missing on a tour I won't have any trouble replacing it all. It is nice to have a bike and gear that I could write a check or pay with a debit card to replace the lot of it.
Same here. It is nice to have a bike that you can use a cheap lock instead of a really heavy one. I bought a fairly heavy lock for my titanium bike because that bike looks expensive.

But around my community, nobody knows that a Rohloff hub is, or what S&S couplers are, so I can use a cheap lock on my Rohloff and S&S bike which is worth more than my titanium bike.
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Old 09-01-21, 09:01 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I only know one person with carbon rims, he only bought them last winter. But he treats every ride like a race, I generally avoid riding with him.



Same here. It is nice to have a bike that you can use a cheap lock instead of a really heavy one. I bought a fairly heavy lock for my titanium bike because that bike looks expensive.

But around my community, nobody knows that a Rohloff hub is, or what S&S couplers are, so I can use a cheap lock on my Rohloff and S&S bike which is worth more than my titanium bike.

Now if only I could find the wrench for the S&S couplers...

My Prospector looks like a heavy cumbersome bike with racks , probably not the target of high end bike thieves, still they will take anything they can get their hands on, so definitely worth a decent lock.
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Old 09-01-21, 09:19 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by skookum View Post
Now if only I could find the wrench for the S&S couplers...
....
You should get a spare. I keep my S&S wrench at home with my tools, but it is a good idea to have a wrench with you when you ride in case a coupler loosens up. I got one of these to carry with my spare tube for riding around near home.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/393314569818

I had to do about 5 minutes of filing on it to make it fit better, they are cheap punch pressed wrenches.

About a month ago, I found one of my couplers had loosened up about a half turn. That can happen at inopportune times.

Now with supply chains and container shipping a mess, shipping can be quite slow from asia, and the price is double what I paid several years ago.
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Old 09-01-21, 11:39 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
You should get a spare. I keep my S&S wrench at home with my tools, but it is a good idea to have a wrench with you when you ride in case a coupler loosens up. I got one of these to carry with my spare tube for riding around near home.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/393314569818

I had to do about 5 minutes of filing on it to make it fit better, they are cheap punch pressed wrenches.

About a month ago, I found one of my couplers had loosened up about a half turn. That can happen at inopportune times.

Now with supply chains and container shipping a mess, shipping can be quite slow from asia, and the price is double what I paid several years ago.
I actually have two, but I can't locate either one. Years ago I did a 40 km back country ride on my Thorn and didnt have the wrench. One of the couplers started to loosen, and I had to stop every km or so and hand tighten it. Made for a long afternoon.
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Old 09-03-21, 04:25 PM
  #39  
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I took a risk and put in the (then new) Roval Terra wheels on our touring bikes on a trip in '19. We did about 700 miles on them, rode well on gravel/sandy roads, even with the load of about 230lbs on my bike. Never had an issue in crappy unpaved roads with potholes. My wife's did have a slight crack in her wheel when she had an accident, which fortunately happened just near the end of the trip, but I rode on it for day trips without incident, and travel insurance replaced the wheel.
Carbon wheels don't do well with nicks and hits, and the finish takes a beating after a trip. The Rovals looked like 10 year old wheels on the finish, after that trip, but I don't care since they are almost 1lbs lighter than aluminum at the same size, it's well worth it to consider the newer carbon offerings for touring.
Originally Posted by azza_333 View Post
Carbon rims on a touring bike, a pretty controversial topic I am sure.

I am looking into having a set of wheels rebuilt with new rims, for a couple of reasons (wider interior rim width, the possibility of going tubeless in the future).

I came across a set of carbon rims online, 32 spoke holes, 30mm deep, 24mm interior rim width, tubeless compatible, and lighter than the alloy equivalent (handy since I have also started using the bike for weekend club rides).

I was wondering if anyone has toured on carbon rims, and their thoughts on it. I am not overly heavy 70kg + 10kg of gear + 10kg bike + and add an additional 5kg just to be on the safe side = 95kg (210lbs), would that be to much to reliable tour on carbon? I'm hoping to go on a 6000km (on road) tour next year, so hoping to find out if would they be just as strong as alloy rimmed wheels?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.
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Old 12-02-21, 07:14 PM
  #40  
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For those that are interested I have edited and added information on the mostly completed build in my initial post here.
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Old 12-03-21, 05:52 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by azza_333 View Post
For those that are interested I have edited and added information on the mostly completed build in my initial post here.
Thanks for posting the update. Very interesting mix and well thought out. If I recall correctly you put a lot of thought into details like frame tubing diameters, etc. I recall some controversy about getting a top tube that is the same diameter as the seat tube. That looks like it worked out well.

I do not think I have ever seen rear fender mounting the way you have your stays that high and on the insides of the stays before. I can see some advantages and disadvantages from that.

I see the lower rack mounts are down low close to the dropouts. The Tubus racks should fit nice. Unfortunately a lot of titanium bikes have those rack mounts up too high and then the rack is too high, you are fortunate that the builder put them where they are.

It looks like the bottle cage mounting points under the downtube are much higher than necessary if you mount a cage there later, they are up where Surly put them on the LHT. Thus, bottle capacity was limited because the front fender gets in the way. There are adapters that can be used to lower the cage. I used to have a LHT. Before the adapters were made, I made my own so that the upper cage bolt went into the lower mounting hole. Photo of mine, below:



If I recall correctly, I had to bend the cage slightly to the left so that the chain did not hit the bottle when shifting, but I had a triple crank on that bike. If you try an adapter you might need to use a metal cage that can be bent. On my Lynskey where they put the mounts down as close to the bottom bracket as possible, they angled the mounting a bit to the left for chain clearance.

The extra length on the back side of the front fender acts as a mud flap, less dirt thrown up on the bottom bracket area and feet, I would keep it long provided that it does not get inconvenient for things like walking the bike down a set of stairs, or down off of a curb, etc.

I do not see anything to protect the chain stay from getting nicked by chain slap. Are you thinking it is unnecessary with a clutch in the derailleur? I put a strip of black electric tape on the top of the chainstay on my Lynskey, I do not have a clutch in my derailleur.

Very nice. Thanks for posting.
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Old 12-03-21, 06:33 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by str View Post
on nice beautiful paved roads I guess
I hit a pothole in the middle of the night at 40 mph so hard, I chipped my teeth. Wheel and tire were fine.

I don't think any roads have been beautiful. One of my favorites is that hideous stretch going south from Wyoming into Colorado on the Transam. A 3 inch wide crack about 2 inches deep every 30 or so feet. But, it is not a mountain bike. I'll ride gravel if I have to but I do not find gravel to place much force on the rims because I ride gravel slower and force increases as the square of speed.

I did not mention but the last 25K miles are on a recumbent. In case that means nothing to you, it is impossible to unweight on that bike. You hit a pothole with full force unlike on an upright where one instinctively unweights lessing the blow.

I have bent and dented many, many aluminum rims over the years but have never dented a carbon rim and rarely have need to retrue them (can't recall ever needing to do that)

I do have a set of 40H/48H touring wheels with bolt on Phils if you want to buy them, they haven't been ridden in 15 years. No need with strong carbon rims
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Old 12-03-21, 06:36 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by azza_333 View Post
For those that are interested I have edited and added information on the mostly completed build in my initial post here.
Good choice and good for listening to your wheelbuilder, those are much stronger than even a 36H alu hoop set.
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Old 12-03-21, 07:15 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I do not think I have ever seen rear fender mounting the way you have your stays that high and on the insides of the stays before. I can see some advantages and disadvantages from that.
I choose the position of those, the braze-ons are high enough to clear 160mm rotors, and on the inside of the stay for a cleaner look.

Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I see the lower rack mounts are down low close to the dropouts. The Tubus racks should fit nice. Unfortunately a lot of titanium bikes have those rack mounts up too high and then the rack is too high, you are fortunate that the builder put them where they are.
It wasn't the builder that chose the position of the rack mounts, I choose the position to keep the center of gravity lower.

Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
It looks like the bottle cage mounting points under the downtube are much higher than necessary if you mount a cage there later, they are up where Surly put them on the LHT. Thus, bottle capacity was limited because the front fender gets in the way. There are adapters that can be used to lower the cage. I used to have a LHT. Before the adapters were made, I made my own so that the upper cage bolt went into the lower mounting hole. Photo of mine, below:
I had these braze-ons positions with the intent of mounting a pump, which easily clears the front fender.

Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
The extra length on the back side of the front fender acts as a mud flap, less dirt thrown up on the bottom bracket area and feet, I would keep it long provided that it does not get inconvenient for things like walking the bike down a set of stairs, or down off of a curb, etc.
The photo probably doesn't show it very well, but the front fender extends all the way until about half an inch from the ground. So I am pretty sure I will have trouble with it, unless I trim a bit off.

Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I do not see anything to protect the chain stay from getting nicked by chain slap. Are you thinking it is unnecessary with a clutch in the derailleur? I put a strip of black electric tape on the top of the chain stay on my Lynskey, I do not have a clutch in my derailleur.
It doesn't show up well in the photos but it has a clear chain stay protection strip on it already.
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Old 12-03-21, 07:46 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Good choice and good for listening to your wheelbuilder, those are much stronger than even a 36H alu hoop set.
Thanks, I was very surprised when he recommended such a "light" wheelset (compared to traditional heavy duty touring wheels), but he is adamant that it will do the job, so since he is the expect I just went with it.
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Old 12-03-21, 10:29 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by azza_333 View Post
...
I had these braze-ons positions with the intent of mounting a pump, which easily clears the front fender.
....
I now put my pump bracket under the water bottle cage on my seatpost bolts. The pump there collects a lot less road grime that is thrown up by the front tire. I used to mount the pump under the above-downtube bottle cage, but got more dust there when riding gravel. I have had to disassemble pumps on several occasions to clean out the dust.

I know you plan to mostly ride pavement with this, not gravel, but there still will be road grime, especially when you remove the fenders.

Do what you want.
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Old 12-03-21, 06:12 PM
  #47  
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re pumps on bikes, just dont forget that pumps always have those screw on parts and switcheable inner doohickies for presta vs shraeder, and this stuff can loosen with vibrations and fall off.....I'd be very leary of putting pumps outside on frames for a long time as I had my pump loosen its parts but luckily it was in a pannier and I found all the bits......you'd be screwed if this happens when riding.

keep this in mind. at least to check the tightness of the parts regularly
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Old 12-04-21, 03:44 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Good choice and good for listening to your wheelbuilder, those are much stronger than even a 36H alu hoop set.
How exactly are those wheels much stronger than 36h aluminum wheels?
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Old 12-04-21, 05:19 AM
  #49  
GhostRider62
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
How exactly are those wheels much stronger than 36h aluminum wheels?

Carbon>>aluminum

Strength is not determined by the spokes.

Most spoke failures are due to insufficient tension. Obtaining sufficient tension is never a problem with carbon rims.

Aluminum will bent. Carbon will not. Truing wheels is a thing of the past with carbon rims.

https://www.bikeforums.net/20740244-post16.html

Here is a good visual


2-5X stronger, sorry the exact number depends on the weave, epoxy, and amount of material used but if Danny's video is not convincing, nothing will....
https://smicomposites.com/carbon-fib...w-they-differ/
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Old 12-04-21, 08:19 AM
  #50  
staehpj1 
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My wheel failures over the years have been three types.
  1. Worn out rims, due to rim brake wear. This can be a thing of the past with disc brakes.
  2. Rims cracking/failing at the spoke holes or eyelets if there are eyelets, usually without spoke breakage. This was probably because the rim couldn't handle the tension I applied to the spokes.
  3. Excessive spoke breakage. Probably insufficient, or uneven spoke tension is a big cause, but a flexy rim contributes.
I figure that a real nice set of disc brake wheels with carbon rims and decent spokes could be built pretty light and stand up to my usage with zero wheel issues. The thing is they would be fairly expensive and i am not looking to build up any new wheels at the moment. If I were looking to build a nice$$$ set of wheels that is what they'd probably look like. I could maybe see myself buying a gravel bike that came with a set of wheels that met that criteria.

It occurs to me that with a nice carbon frame and some careful selection of components my loaded bike with all my gear, but no food or water could weigh about the same as my original touring bike did with no racks, bags or gear. That would be without going super race bike crazy light. That almost make ne want to dig out my wallet.
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