veganbikes

You should see what PON holdings their parent company does...holy moly. I was talking with one of our old reps from one of the PON brands and they were saying how much stuff they do beyond bikes and that bikes is super important to them being Dutch but basically is a decimal point in what they make even though they own a ton of big brands.

I think he was saying they do things from car distribution in Europe (Volkswagen, Audi, Lamborghini...) Commercial vehicles (CAT and MAN) and some less than reputable stuff like forced animal insemination. It is crazy,

dedhed

Less reputable? Common modern genetics and breeding. Has been for decades.

https://www.absglobal.com/about/

mstateglfr 

The guy is vegan, it's in his name.
Dont be surprised if someone that is vegan views forced insemination of animals as controversial(less reputable).

veganbikes

Would you want it to happen to you or someone you care about? Being common doesn't make it OK? There are a lot of things that have been common throughout the years that has later been found to be wrong and less reputable. We just don't want to call it what it is because it makes us feel bad and makes us not want to exploit others.

dedhed

Sounds like questions you need to ask in P&R rather than General

Maelochs

I'd think getting upset about forced insemination would just a be a small part of breeding them for brief lives of service in captivity before murdering them ... I mean, would you want it to happen to someone you know?

One another hand ... . Vegans Murder Vegetables.

To you they are tasty baby carrots, to the carrot plant they are murdered children, skinned and boiled and eaten.

That's life.

veganbikes

Baby carrots are just trimmed adult carrots that have lost most of their flavor. Just wash your carrots and you don't need to skin them and boiling is not the ideal way to prepare a carrot in my eyes if not eating raw I would sauté them or bake them or grill them unless of course I was making a soup or stock but for the stock I would probably roast them first and probably ideally get them down to a smaller size for more surface area to extract more flavor.

One Wheel

I wonder if I could make a bike frame out of cow bones. I can locally source them. Femurs for the front triangle, bore out shin bones for head tube and bottom bracket, and ribs for seat and chain stays?

Well aware that this is a can of worms that I don't want to go too far into, but . . . : I'm a dairy farmer, "forced insemination" is an integral part of my business model. ABS Global is not a company I've done business with, but mostly because they don't happen to have bulls whose semen I want to buy. They're a solid, reputable company as far as I'm aware. More generally, Artificial Insemination has two primary benefits:
First, it's safer for the cows and for people. Bulls are big, clumsy, and can be violent. Without management cows will still get pregnant, but there would be much higher rates of inbreeding and injury.
Second, it allows a few genetically elite bulls to sire many more calves, thus allowing for drastically quicker selection for more efficient and healthier animals.

If your goal is no animal agriculture, dream on. If your goal is reduced animal agriculture, you should be in favor of selection allowing fewer animals to produce meat and milk more efficiently. If your goal is more humane animal agriculture you should be happy with the better safety of AI.

Cows are not people: I like my cows, they all have names and personalities. But they're not monogamous, they're not choosy about which bull they'll mate with, and some of them have to die every year in order to maintain a healthy herd. And they're delicious when they die, if it's planned and executed correctly.

Alan K

If someone could have done it at such low rate and be profitable - fundamental goal of any business - it would have already been done. Renting a bicycle that consists $5000-8000 for about $250 a year cannot be a profitable business. If a bank sees such a proposal from a potential business for loan, they would have difficult time not laughing.

Alan K

???
I think you missed the point!

[There was someone on the west coast many years ago who built a bike out of bamboo. But since you are a cow guy, you could try making your ya-ba-da-ba-do bike with bones. Enjoy!]

Maelochs

Ummm .... yeah, you have facts to back that up? I don't see a company growing a bunch of carrots and trimming off 80 % as waste to sell "baby carrots."

But ... either by accident or for some other reason, to dodged the point. Great in fencing, not good in discussion.

Every living being consumes living beings. Your carrots are organic ... living beings farmed for your consumption, just like cows. You are killing and eating like any other predator ... just, for you, the chase is a lot easier.

I am a voluntary vegetarian for every possible reason .... but I do not pretend that I don't kill to live. And when we cook food ... we are killing all sorts of bacteria and parasites ... which are also living beings.

I am sorry but living involves killing. People who kill smaller, simpler lives and pretend to be better ... that is fine but I am not fooled.

Factory farming sucks .... but animal husbandry is a part of life, and I commend those who do it as humanely as possible.

But yeah ... farming is raising living beings in order to kill and consume them. I don't care if it is cows or carrots, we feed on life. Face it or deny it, it is still what it is.

Oh ... yeah, bicycles.

rosefarts

From the title, I imagined a very different direction for this thread.

https://odditymall.com/shuttlebike-b...ntoon-boat-kit

mstateglfr 

https://www.businessinsider.com/baby...arrots-2015-12

1- you really don't know what baby carrots are?
2- you really think killing something that is knowingly sentient is the same as something that we don't view/isn't sentient?
3- you really think killing bacteria is some sort of good point in a discussion about animal treatment?


This belongs in p&r. For as annoying as they are with the periodic injection of animal right comments, the responses are often far worse.
Funny related comment- last July 4th someone posted a pic of their large dog wearing a couple of stars and stripes things. Small hat, bow tie, etc...that sort of thing. Vegbikes declared it abusive and I laughed at the absurdity of calling that abusive. Thats all you need to do there- dismiss the comments without getting into more, because 'more' for you apparently means arguing that killing bacteria is equal to all other killing. It's best if you sit out, if that's what you are going to add

Maelochs

Yeah sorry, @mstateglfr, but I don't post at of for your pleasure. If you don't like what I post, don't read my posts.

The subject was "killing," Your points
undoes itself. We decide what we think is alive and which lives are worthy. 250 years ago in America as well as a lot of other places, killing black people was considered fine ... they were lesser beings. Most people would object if you showed pictures of large groups of dogs and joked they were headed for the slaughter house .... but eating dog is not actually rare in human experience. We think we think of guinea pigs as pets ... in South America, they are food.

As for what is "sentient" .... yeah, what we Recognize as sentient.

There is a hotly debated but poisonous discussion I could mention anent all of this but i will not .... but it doesn't take much thinking ... another discussion where what each individual assumes is deemed all that matters.

By the way ... as far as I can tell cows are sentient, as are bulls (where I hear most beef is taken,) and pigs are said to be smarter than dogs. No one would call a chicken "smart," but i think we would say they are sentient .... but there is no scientific test anyway, so ... and as @one_Wheel mentions below (you know the cattle farmer who actually knows about the raising and slaughter of cattle) cows actually have different personalities .... which demonstrates that "sentience" is not the dividing line between what can be killed and what cannot, within a society.

It is social trends, not respect for sentience ..... so this whole point is meaningless. "...something that is knowingly sentient is the same as something that we don't view/isn't sentient?" is a straw man .... you set it up and knock it down but we aren't debating straw. You have no issue killing sentient beings.

(By the way, a grammar pint .. . "something that is knowingly sentient would mean "something that is self-aware of its self-awareness." I think you are trying to say that what matters is whether we deem the thing snetient, not whether it actually is ... but even that weak point won't stand because you don't really object to killing sentient beings.

Yes. If we are talking about a scale of living beings stretching from "okay to kill" to "not okay to kill," mentioning where any living being fits on that scale is valid. My point is that even for vegans, such a scale exists. Sorry you did not grasp that most obvious point.

I don't care if people eat meat. For a lot of people, their living conditions are such that their choices are limited ... in most of the world vegetarianism and more so veganism is a luxury lifestyle. People wealthy enough to choose sufficient nutrition pretending to be better than people who cannot choose (and often don't even get enough calories for Any source) is one of the things people dislike about veganism, in my experience.

I never said I was superior for my dietary choices ... I pointed out to Veganbiker that even he was willing to kill to eat. Again, sorry you missed that obvious point.

If all you are going to add to a thread is to tell people they cannot post things with which you disagree ... maybe sit this one out.

Maybe go ride a bicycle.

mstateglfr 

pot kettle time.

Iride01 

Garfield Cat Did you notice that the road side assistance is only for this brand of bikes that is only offered in a place where cycling is really big and more normal than owning a car?

https://www.fietsned.nl/

Alan K

For winter use, I would like a snow plough attachment for a bicycle that can operated on slopes and throw snow at least 10 feet.

Homebrew01

Note to All. Please stay on topic. No political type posts allowed in cycling forums.

Maelochs

Maelochs

Sorry, @Homebrew01, I posted that before I read your warning .....