Andrew_G

I rode the 2018 Eroica-CA 89 mile Coastal route. As best as I recall, the fastest downhill stretch is the part after Adeleida. (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/27745408. See mile 28-32).

For the current EC event, this section starts at mile 58 on the Santa Lucia route (https://eroica.cc/en/california/santa-lucia-route).


On my 2018 ride, I used Campy NR short reach brake calipers with new Kool-Stop pads. I weigh about 150 lbs. During the steepest parts of that descent, I had to white-knuckle grip the brakes for a full 20 minutes or so. If I eased up on the brakes for the slightest amount, I was at risk of either going over the side of a cliff, or crashing face first into a vertical rock wall.


If I had to regularly descend steeper hills like those at EC, I'd be seriously looking for better brakes. One guy on Classic Rendezvous had his vintage frameset reworked after EC to add braze on pivots for Mafac brakes.


A local friend of mine stated that Mafac Racer brakes compare quite favorably in performance to modern Campy double pivot sidepull brakes. Or should I say that the modern Campy double pivot brakes compare favorably to Mafac brakes?


I suspect that one critical difference is that Mafac brakes have longer brake pads, compared to Campy NR. This increases the braking surface area, thus increasing friction and improving overfall stopping power.

gugie 

A common misconception. The classic equation for friction=coefficient of friction x force. Note that surface area is not in this equation. This does assume that the coefficient of friction is constant, but at high temperatures there's the phenomena of brake fade, which would indicate that the coefficient of friction decreases at higher temperatures, at least for the materials used in brakes. For the forces encountered on a bicycle, I believe the coefficient is pretty much constant.

@RustyJames set up a Koolstop tour a few years ago, those guys seem to know the science of braking well. Maybe we can contact them to see what they say on the subject?

What larger surface areas give you is longer wear, as the pressure on on the pads decreases with increase in surface area (P = F/A, P=pressure, F=force A=areas)

Mr. Spadoni 

I’ve never heard of anyone ever not being allowed to start an Eroica event because the bike was non compliant. Someone will glance at the bike, in the dark, and off you go if you’ve made even a reasonable attempt to follow the rules. Which you ought to do. It’s their ride, so they get to make the rules.

nlerner

I've twice ridden California Eroica. There was no bike inspection at the start or at any point (other than follow riders giving each the side eye). In fact, there's was an overall startling level of neglect from the organizers.

DiabloScott

I don't believe it's possible to lock a front wheel with any bicycle brake... unless you're on ice maybe.
I like DP brakes just because they're easier to adjust. Pretty handy when you change wheels.

bulgie 

On dirt, maybe not easy exactly, but not too hard if you have skilz. You just have to push your weight back to counter the natural tendency to endo.

genejockey 

It is interesting to me that the Eroica rules, which were promulgated around 1997 IIRC, essentially specify a bike that was 10 years old or older THEN, but is now 37 years old, rather than building the rules around "no technology less than 10 years old". Not a complaint!! It's a completely valid choice. I'm just curious about the choice.

I have 2 Eroica Compliant bikes (except for the pedals), but much as I love riding them, I have no wish to do one of the Eroica rides. But I salute the riders and the organizers!

iab

There were rules in 1997? As best I know, just started as a bunch of people riding old bikes in 1997 in the spirit of Bartali and Coppi. And in reality the rules are easy. Lugged steel, no clicky gears, no clipless pedals, no aero. I suppose then you got your usual killjoys with their "whatabouts", and formal rules were created. And for the last 27 years there has been a "let's nitpick the rules" thread every 1-2 hours on this site.

genejockey 

I suspect you're correct about rules developing over time. I do find it interesting that it was essentially "ten years ago" and stayed with the YEAR rather than the DIFFERFENCE, but as the punchline of a joke goes, "You no play-a da game, you no make-a da rules!"

Classtime 

I think there was so much new tech showing up on new road bikes from the mid eighties on that 87 (or 85) makes sense to me as a good place to stop. It’s not about 10, 20, 30, … year old bikes.

Brad L 

I rode down Cypress Mountain's 10-17% grades with my Weinmann 500 single pivot brakes without an issue. Of course, both the calipers and levers had been thoroughly disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled with new grease at all pivot points and running Kool Stop pads and new cables and housing. Even the best brakes will be sub-par with grime in the pivot points.

repechage

Kool Stop pads do a fine job of not picking up aluminum debris too.
do not like that sound at all.

Millstone

I went to the Eroica Valkenburg last year. I did not want to use toestraps, I used SPD-pedals (two sided, so one was a platform the other clip in) in conjunction with those nice lace shoes of Vittoria. Who look the part
Used dual pivot as well, dura ace IIRC. Nice and shiney.

About the pedals: I asked the organizers beforehand. Not a problem! Happy to have you
Brakes? I dont think anyone checked. Everyone had a good time enjoying the scene, the food and the ride. And each other's bikes.

So I tink that, as long as your bike is 'in the spirit' of Eroica, you're good to go.
You can always argue that the upgrade of the brakes is the upgrade that the bike would have had anyway, back then.

And on aero cables: if I still had my Peugeot Triathlon bike I would have ridden it (still regret selling, in hindsight) and it's as aero as it can be in 1987.


Those arent really rules, They are more like.. guidelines. Harrr!

Millstone

And then with SPD-pedals, 'dual sided' (one platform side, one spd).

Millstone

Here in triathlon-modus

mpetry912 

seen outside the coffee shop in Paso 2017. I liked this one.

brake cable service loops a little too long but that's a nit

/markp

Dan Chase

At last years L`Eroica in Tuscany, Gaoili I can 100% confirm that no aero brake settups were allowed (I spoke with a rider who had been turned away at scrutineering and personally witness scrutineering chase a chap down who tried to slip through with clipless pedals - he failed to ride as an official entrant though would have been free to ride the roads of course as they are not closed or private.

In defense of L`Eroica Italy the event is just outstanding and really, really well organised, plus its massivly over-subscribed so just accept the rules for what they are - old school pre `86 race bikes with period gruppo`s - I`m there again this year on my `63 Legnano and attempting the Sunday on a late 20`s english 3 speed - no need for aero hoods on those two....

Cheers, Dan.

PS - brakes - use well settup and bedded in Kool Stops - the descents are properly scary...

mhespenheide 

Eroica California was quite relaxed about equipment requirements the years that I did it. It sounds like L'Eroica in Italy is much more stringent.

There are plenty of good options, "aero" and "non-aero". Mid-80's Japanese single-pivot brakes with modern pads and cables are plenty good enough. Properly-adjusted centerpulls and cantis are both good enough (again with modern pads and cables).

Again, at least at Eroica CA, dual-pivots would not lead to excommunication. Better if they're polished sliver, though.

vjp

Mark, do you recall the make of this crankset?
Thanks, vjp

Andrew_G

I'm not Mark, but...

The crankset looks like a Holsworth-branded Andel-manufactured Taiwanese crankset. I can see hints of "H" to the left side of the right toe strap, plus what appears to be the crest of the Holsworth brand. I've previously seen the Holsworth branded crank on UK websites.

Here's one photo from a blog: https://velovintagehyde.blogspot.com...-crankset.html. ;the crest look identical.)


The same crank has been available in the USA under the IRD and Velo Orange brands. Chainrings have occasionally been available as OEM drillium.


ANDEL ENTERPRISE CO.,LTD..
(Check the RSC73-277PW for double chainring: https://www.andel.com.tw/products_d.php?pid=56&cid=12
and RSC73-377PW for triple: https://www.andel.com.tw/products_d.php?pid=55&cid=12.

https://velo-orange.com/collections/...rankset-34x48t

https://www.interlocracing.com/shop/...2923,2622,3097

USAZorro

So my frame can be 1985, but my bar-cons have to be 79.

vjp

Thank You for the info Andrew!
vjp

gugie 

They cab be 2024 vintage as long as you run them friction.

BTW, who goes to a costume party but doesn’t wear a costume?

polymorphself 

I agree with this. The event has little appeal to me but were I to attend it would happily be by the rules. I am glad such a thing exists.

John E

With brakes, it's all about system leverage, pad (good) friction, parasitic (bad) friction, caliper rigidity, and adjustment and lubrication of pivot points.

My most terrifying braking experience was with short-reach Campag. sidepulls and Shimano pads, on a 15% descent under high-humidity, patchy fog, weather conditions. Replacing the Shimanos with KoolStops helped considerably, but it was still not enough for safety. I now have Shimano dual-pivot sidepulls (huge difference), Shimano aero levers (15% more leverage than the original non-aero Modolos), modern cable housings, and KoolStop pads, and the Bianchi is a lot more enjoyable now that I have braking confidence.

I still have the original Weinmann centerpulls on the Capos and Mafac centerpulls on the Peugeot, and those work far better than the Modolo or Campag. single-pivot sidepulls ever could, under any conditions, again because of leverage. One can also boost centerpull brake caliper system leverage by varying the length of the straddle cable, which is a trivial operation on Mafacs.