beginner cassette troubleshooting
#1
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beginner cassette troubleshooting
I'm fixing up a yakota legend, which is a little more modern than most of the bikes I work on, so some of this is new to me. It has a 7sp Shimano hyperglide cassette instead of a free wheel, and the cassette had a considerable amount of play before I removed it. I had hoped it was just a loose lock ring but the lock ring was on there pretty snug. I watched a few videos and it suggested that a spacer might be missing, but there is a spacer both behind the entire assembly and between the removable cog and the rest, which are fused together.
There is a small amount of play in the actual splined part of the hub, but that seems to be a lot less than what I was feeling as I wiggled the cassette.
Where do I start looking for solutions? Do I need bigger spacers? More spacers? Do I need to do something to service the splined part of the hub? Or do I need to just throw the entire wheel in the gulf and start over?
Any help is always appreciated. Thanks!
There is a small amount of play in the actual splined part of the hub, but that seems to be a lot less than what I was feeling as I wiggled the cassette.
Where do I start looking for solutions? Do I need bigger spacers? More spacers? Do I need to do something to service the splined part of the hub? Or do I need to just throw the entire wheel in the gulf and start over?
Any help is always appreciated. Thanks!
#2
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Depending on the hub you can just throw a new freehub on it.
https://www.performancebike.com/shim...hchdgcstqrgqhe
https://www.performancebike.com/shim...hchdgcstqrgqhe
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Probably just the bearings need adjusting. Is it this one?
https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/s...0-7S-2389C.pdf
Also if you haven't already..
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/s...0-7S-2389C.pdf
Also if you haven't already..
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
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I'm fixing up a yakota legend, which is a little more modern than most of the bikes I work on, so some of this is new to me. It has a 7sp Shimano hyperglide cassette instead of a free wheel, and the cassette had a considerable amount of play before I removed it. I had hoped it was just a loose lock ring but the lock ring was on there pretty snug. I watched a few videos and it suggested that a spacer might be missing, but there is a spacer both behind the entire assembly and between the removable cog and the rest, which are fused together.
There is a small amount of play in the actual splined part of the hub, but that seems to be a lot less than what I was feeling as I wiggled the cassette.
Where do I start looking for solutions? Do I need bigger spacers? More spacers? Do I need to do something to service the splined part of the hub? Or do I need to just throw the entire wheel in the gulf and start over?
Any help is always appreciated. Thanks!
There is a small amount of play in the actual splined part of the hub, but that seems to be a lot less than what I was feeling as I wiggled the cassette.
Where do I start looking for solutions? Do I need bigger spacers? More spacers? Do I need to do something to service the splined part of the hub? Or do I need to just throw the entire wheel in the gulf and start over?
Any help is always appreciated. Thanks!
Post pictures yet so that we can see the spacer.
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#5
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Depending on the hub you can just throw a new freehub on it.
https://www.performancebike.com/shim...hchdgcstqrgqhe
https://www.performancebike.com/shim...hchdgcstqrgqhe
Probably just the bearings need adjusting. Is it this one?
https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/s...0-7S-2389C.pdf
Also if you haven't already..
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/s...0-7S-2389C.pdf
Also if you haven't already..
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
Do you mean the hub bearings? Those are fine. I checked for a play in The hub itself and it's solid.
Freehubs don’t generally have the wobble that is typical of freewheels. If the cassette is loose on the freehub body, the likely problem is a spacer. You may need up to 4mm of spacer. Any bike shop should have some spacers around. Get a few widths if you can.
Post pictures yet so that we can see the spacer.
Post pictures yet so that we can see the spacer.
I noticed when taking the picture of that the free hub itself has some grooves either worn or cut into it transverse to the splines' direction. I don't know if this is something that is done on purpose or if it's just a sign of wear.
#6
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Posting the actual hub model# can be useful to point you to an exploded view of such hub.
#7
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Kind of looks like this might be the solution. See the picture below in the comment about the grooves in the free hub. Still, as someone who's used to being able to throw a $15 freewheel on when the old one wears out, I'm a little annoyed that I have to spend 32 bucks just to replace a piece of this whole mess.
I didn't have the spacers handy for a photo but they are 1 mm spacers and there are two of them all together. They seem to be in good shape.
I noticed when taking the picture of that the free hub itself has some grooves either worn or cut into it transverse to the splines' direction. I don't know if this is something that is done on purpose or if it's just a sign of wear.
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Kind of looks like this might be the solution. See the picture below in the comment about the grooves in the free hub. Still, as someone who's used to being able to throw a $15 freewheel on when the old one wears out, I'm a little annoyed that I have to spend 32 bucks just to replace a piece of this whole mess. .
I personally would try spacers on the cassette first as suggested. If you have a coop around you can probably pick up spacers and/or a freehub cheap.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/29312117342...8AAOSwx6ldBAG9
#9
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Okay, why do none of the spacers look the same as what's on there? Can I just use any spacer that says it's for Shimano? I'll post a picture of the spacer tomorrow.
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Some times a cassette spacer is used rather than a flat spacer. It doesn’t matter as long as it’s thick enough.
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Can you let us know if the hubs have any model number?
Can you measure the freehub body, (where the cassette is installed), from the end to the cassette stops?
7 speed is 31mm and 8-10 speed is 35mm.
Freehub bodies tend to have a very slight amount of play. I’m less inclined to think the freehub body is bad, but step one is knowing what hub you have first.
John
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Freewheel bikes can bend and even break the rear axle. That stopped happening with the advent of the freehub, which put the drive side bearing nearer the load point at the dropout.
Very few of the many incremental changes in bike design have ended up actually saving the cyclist money, but at least some of them have improved strength and reliability.
You can still get freewheel hubs and replacement freewheels if you want a cheaper, weaker wheel. I'm in the planning process of rebuilding a nice bike from 1982 and am looking at a salvaged set of wheels with a 7-speed freewheel.
Very few of the many incremental changes in bike design have ended up actually saving the cyclist money, but at least some of them have improved strength and reliability.
You can still get freewheel hubs and replacement freewheels if you want a cheaper, weaker wheel. I'm in the planning process of rebuilding a nice bike from 1982 and am looking at a salvaged set of wheels with a 7-speed freewheel.
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Where are the axle bearings? I thinking I should either be seeing them or the dust cap in that picture and I don't see either.
I'm still thinking the wobbly play you saw was the axle bearings not being adjusted correctly. But you were there I wasn't. So I'm just wildly guessing.
I'm still thinking the wobbly play you saw was the axle bearings not being adjusted correctly. But you were there I wasn't. So I'm just wildly guessing.
#15
Junior Member
Honestly looking at the photo I can absolutely guarantee you the freehub body pictured has play on it (just going by the grime scale). If the cassette is sliding along the freehub body then you have an issue with spacing. Before you embark on replacing the freehub body make sure to check rim wear, true, spoke tensions and seized spokes. Might be worth just investing in a new wheel.
Last edited by MUDCOWS; 09-17-21 at 01:23 PM.
#16
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I measured it at about 37mm today. I also picked up some spacers of various sizes from the bike shop. Haven't gotten into it yet, but once it's cleaned up I'll reassemble and see what happens.
The axle is definitely fine.
The axle is definitely fine.
#17
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Freewheel bikes can bend and even break the rear axle. That stopped happening with the advent of the freehub, which put the drive side bearing nearer the load point at the dropout.
Very few of the many incremental changes in bike design have ended up actually saving the cyclist money, but at least some of them have improved strength and reliability.
You can still get freewheel hubs and replacement freewheels if you want a cheaper, weaker wheel. I'm in the planning process of rebuilding a nice bike from 1982 and am looking at a salvaged set of wheels with a 7-speed freewheel.
Very few of the many incremental changes in bike design have ended up actually saving the cyclist money, but at least some of them have improved strength and reliability.
You can still get freewheel hubs and replacement freewheels if you want a cheaper, weaker wheel. I'm in the planning process of rebuilding a nice bike from 1982 and am looking at a salvaged set of wheels with a 7-speed freewheel.
But I would be legitimately shocked if broken axles were in any significant way reduced by moving the force such a small distance. A 9mm steel rod, I'm guessing, would have a breaking (or in this case shearing?) strength well above 20, maybe even 30, kN. Even if it cut the distance of the application of force in half, that's still 10 or 15 kN. That's a lot of force. I could see it on a rigid mountain bike, where the axles are shock loaded routinely, but riding on a relatively smooth surface a 200lb rider just doesn't generate that kind of force.
Were broken wheel axles really that much of a problem? I've never seen it happen and I've certainly never broken one, in spite of the fact that I'm almost 200lbs and have put over 10k miles on a set of wheels more than once in twenty years of riding.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have strong feelings about it. Freewheel, cassette, it makes not much difference in the end and I can't see a tremendous advantage on either side. But I suspect that, as with other pastimes I'm very familiar with (sailing, surfing, tree work climbing), the industry has a way of convincing people they really need a particular upgrade even though the old one worked pretty much as well.
Upgrades are great if you can afford them, but the increased functionality should be somewhat proportionate to the increase in cost. Then again, I think road bike design peaked in the 80s, at least with respect to the functionality to cost ratio.
Thanks for coming to my talk.
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If it were me, I’d disassemble the hubs and remove the freehub body.
Loosen the NDS locknut and cone and pull the axle out and the ball bearings.
If it is a Shimano hub, a 10mm allen wrench will remove the freehub body. Soak it in solvent, dry, and re-lube it. I use Phil’s Tenacious Oil.
Clean everything, re-grease, and re-assemble.
It is academic when it comes to maintenance whether it is a freewheel or a freehub. Both have a body that needs periodic cleaning and lubing.
Then you can play with the spacers.
John
Loosen the NDS locknut and cone and pull the axle out and the ball bearings.
If it is a Shimano hub, a 10mm allen wrench will remove the freehub body. Soak it in solvent, dry, and re-lube it. I use Phil’s Tenacious Oil.
Clean everything, re-grease, and re-assemble.
It is academic when it comes to maintenance whether it is a freewheel or a freehub. Both have a body that needs periodic cleaning and lubing.
Then you can play with the spacers.
John
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Let me preface by response by saying I can't really back any of this up, and I have somewhat limited experience as a mechanic.
But I would be legitimately shocked if broken axles were in any significant way reduced by moving the force such a small distance. A 9mm steel rod, I'm guessing, would have a breaking (or in this case shearing?) strength well above 20, maybe even 30, kN. Even if it cut the distance of the application of force in half, that's still 10 or 15 kN. That's a lot of force. I could see it on a rigid mountain bike, where the axles are shock loaded routinely, but riding on a relatively smooth surface a 200lb rider just doesn't generate that kind of force.
Were broken wheel axles really that much of a problem? I've never seen it happen and I've certainly never broken one, in spite of the fact that I'm almost 200lbs and have put over 10k miles on a set of wheels more than once in twenty years of riding.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have strong feelings about it. Freewheel, cassette, it makes not much difference in the end and I can't see a tremendous advantage on either side. But I suspect that, as with other pastimes I'm very familiar with (sailing, surfing, tree work climbing), the industry has a way of convincing people they really need a particular upgrade even though the old one worked pretty much as well.
Upgrades are great if you can afford them, but the increased functionality should be somewhat proportionate to the increase in cost. Then again, I think road bike design peaked in the 80s, at least with respect to the functionality to cost ratio.
Thanks for coming to my talk.
But I would be legitimately shocked if broken axles were in any significant way reduced by moving the force such a small distance. A 9mm steel rod, I'm guessing, would have a breaking (or in this case shearing?) strength well above 20, maybe even 30, kN. Even if it cut the distance of the application of force in half, that's still 10 or 15 kN. That's a lot of force. I could see it on a rigid mountain bike, where the axles are shock loaded routinely, but riding on a relatively smooth surface a 200lb rider just doesn't generate that kind of force.
Were broken wheel axles really that much of a problem? I've never seen it happen and I've certainly never broken one, in spite of the fact that I'm almost 200lbs and have put over 10k miles on a set of wheels more than once in twenty years of riding.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have strong feelings about it. Freewheel, cassette, it makes not much difference in the end and I can't see a tremendous advantage on either side. But I suspect that, as with other pastimes I'm very familiar with (sailing, surfing, tree work climbing), the industry has a way of convincing people they really need a particular upgrade even though the old one worked pretty much as well.
Upgrades are great if you can afford them, but the increased functionality should be somewhat proportionate to the increase in cost. Then again, I think road bike design peaked in the 80s, at least with respect to the functionality to cost ratio.
Thanks for coming to my talk.
"Avantages of Freehubs
Due to the location of the bearings in most Shimano Freehubs, the axle is supported closer to the ends. As a result, bent axles are rarely a problem with these hubs."I volunteer as an amateur mechanic at a non-profit bike shop, where we see a lot of freewheels, and bent/broken axles are not uncommon. It's usually a MTB, but many road bikes see high impact on curbs and other hazards. There's a great reduction in moment arm when the bearing locknut is right against the dropout. As Sheldon Brown goes on to say, it's been a very successful design. See this link: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
#20
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Thread Starter
If it were me, I’d disassemble the hubs and remove the freehub body.
Loosen the NDS locknut and cone and pull the axle out and the ball bearings.
If it is a Shimano hub, a 10mm allen wrench will remove the freehub body. Soak it in solvent, dry, and re-lube it. I use Phil’s Tenacious Oil.
Clean everything, re-grease, and re-assemble.
It is academic when it comes to maintenance whether it is a freewheel or a freehub. Both have a body that needs periodic cleaning and lubing.
Then you can play with the spacers.
John
Loosen the NDS locknut and cone and pull the axle out and the ball bearings.
If it is a Shimano hub, a 10mm allen wrench will remove the freehub body. Soak it in solvent, dry, and re-lube it. I use Phil’s Tenacious Oil.
Clean everything, re-grease, and re-assemble.
It is academic when it comes to maintenance whether it is a freewheel or a freehub. Both have a body that needs periodic cleaning and lubing.
Then you can play with the spacers.
John
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There has been much discussion that Phil’s is basically bar or gear oil at an exorbitant price. I don’t see an issue.
John
John
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#22
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#23
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Thread Starter
From Sheldon Brown's website:
I volunteer as an amateur mechanic at a non-profit bike shop, where we see a lot of freewheels, and bent/broken axles are not uncommon. It's usually a MTB, but many road bikes see high impact on curbs and other hazards. There's a great reduction in moment arm when the bearing locknut is right against the dropout. As Sheldon Brown goes on to say, it's been a very successful design. See this link: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
"Avantages of Freehubs
Due to the location of the bearings in most Shimano Freehubs, the axle is supported closer to the ends. As a result, bent axles are rarely a problem with these hubs."I volunteer as an amateur mechanic at a non-profit bike shop, where we see a lot of freewheels, and bent/broken axles are not uncommon. It's usually a MTB, but many road bikes see high impact on curbs and other hazards. There's a great reduction in moment arm when the bearing locknut is right against the dropout. As Sheldon Brown goes on to say, it's been a very successful design. See this link: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
#24
Senior Member
A 7-speed cassette needs a 4.5mm spacer (or thereabouts - I've seen both 4mm and 4.5mm spacers sold for this purpose) to fit properly on a Shimano-compatible 8/9/10-speed freehub. However, an 11-speed freehub is wider in order to accommodate the wider 11-speed road cassette. Here, a 1.8mm or 1.85 mm spacer is required to use a 8 or 9 speed cassette (and a 1mm as well for a Shimano 10-speed cassette, as I recall; I've seen some sources that say it's not required for SRAM 10-speed cassettes, but I've never used one by SRAM so I can't say for sure that's the case).
If you only had the 4.5mm spacer behind the original 7-speed cassette, that could be the problem. Pretty sure you'll need both the 1.8mm or 1.85 mm and 4.5mm spacers to do that.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7-7.shtml#stay
https://bike.bikegremlin.com/1259/bi...compatibility/
Last edited by Hondo6; 09-18-21 at 04:16 AM. Reason: Add info omitted in first version.
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#25
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If it were me, I’d disassemble the hubs and remove the freehub body.
Loosen the NDS locknut and cone and pull the axle out and the ball bearings.
If it is a Shimano hub, a 10mm allen wrench will remove the freehub body. Soak it in solvent, dry, and re-lube it. I use Phil’s Tenacious Oil.
Clean everything, re-grease, and re-assemble.
It is academic when it comes to maintenance whether it is a freewheel or a freehub. Both have a body that needs periodic cleaning and lubing.
Then you can play with the spacers.
John
Loosen the NDS locknut and cone and pull the axle out and the ball bearings.
If it is a Shimano hub, a 10mm allen wrench will remove the freehub body. Soak it in solvent, dry, and re-lube it. I use Phil’s Tenacious Oil.
Clean everything, re-grease, and re-assemble.
It is academic when it comes to maintenance whether it is a freewheel or a freehub. Both have a body that needs periodic cleaning and lubing.
Then you can play with the spacers.
John
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Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
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Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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