altenwrencher

I am a longtime user of a Rivoli chain rivet tool, since about 1972. l now see (yes, I am late to the game) narrower chains, with rivets that barely protrude from the plates. Some of these chains have a special link, and instructions on using that link, and an admonishment against reusing a piece of chain that may have been removed during fitting. Well, adding back a piece is what I need to do... should I carefully use my good old Rivoli, or buy a new chain, or... what? I would prefer to just go on installing chains without using any special links. Is that a reasonable course of action for a skilled oldtimer? Parameter: every bike I have has 8 or fewer cogs.

This may be a topic already well discussed, but I haven't been able to find it. Thanks for discussion, or links to one already extant.

Crankycrank

Yes, it's fine to use for an 8 speed chain to break and re-install the pin. I have a Rivoli myself but only use it for breaking my 10 speed + chains and use a quick link for a master link. I've been hoping my Rivoli breaks so I can buy a new one with a large handle but it just keeps on working for the last 40 years.

Kontact

No, it is not safe to press pins into modern chains - 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 or 13. Which is pretty much any derailleur chain on the market. Do not do it - the likelihood of the chain breaking is way too great.

If you need to lengthen the chain, use a second Quick Link.


I used to work with a mechanic who didn't pay for chain. Every time he installed a new chain on a customer's bike, he saved the old Quick Link and the unused portion of new chain. When he had enough of these, he'd assemble a chain out of 9 QLs and ride it.

So there is nothing wrong with more than one QL.

Crankycrank

Never had a problem re-using the original pin on an 8sp. Needs to be done properly though. If in doubt, use a QL.

Kontact

You might get away with riding on a cracked fork for a long time, too. But it doesn't make you smart. Re-riveting was never approved for any Shimano width 8 speed chain because the side plates are too thin, and no chain company has ever made such a chain that didn't come with a special pin or link. It isn't a conspiracy - it is for your safety.

altenwrencher

Would this help the rejoined chain's integrity: lightly peen the newly inserted rivet by squeezing it carefully in a vice? This after ascertaining the rivet is equally proud of both plates? Or am I missing something?

Kontact

No. The pins are harder than they used to be, they don't stick out enough and you can use a quick link.

I don't understand why people screw around with something like this when quick links are so common. Do you want to donate some teeth?


I have seen multiple KMC 8 speed chains where the factory pins failed - do you think you can do better than the factory?

altenwrencher

I am so unaccustomed to quick links, and so accustomed to, and satisfied with, using a chain rivet tool. That is the basis of my questions.

Should I avoid KMC chains? Multiple failures of factory pins does not inspire confidence. Were those super narrow chains? BITD I was a fan of Sedis silver, which I understand is the ancestor of some SRAM models.

Does the need for quick links become greater as chain width becomes narrower?

For a lightly used 6 speed Shimano freewheel I installed on an early 1970's Raleigh Competition, what new chains should I consider?

Camilo

Why not use a quick link, or in the case of some chains, the actual replacement pin that they provide? Doesn't make any sense at all to do something that the chain manufacturers say not to do.

altenwrencher

Peening the ends of the rivet means the ends of the rivet will be mushroomed, so less likely to move side-to-side between chain plates; so, less likely move so far sideways that it will pull loose from a plate. That would result in the chain separating under the force of pedaling.

Rivets: they pass through a hole. Then their ends are peened/mushroomed. After that the rivets cannot easily pass further into or out of the hole.

79pmooney

@altenwrencher, this is the issue. All 9-speed and higher and some (probably growing number of) 8-speed chains are made with peened pins. The pins of the old days were just cylinders of hardened steel. Press fit. Drove in and out with no issue. Stuck out beyond the plate far enough that small errors re-driving the pins wasn't an issue. But the new pins are are peened (ie smashed with a machine blow) to 1) decrease the overall width and 2) mushroom the tip to prevent that short overhang from slipping inside and out of the outer side plate and the chain breaking (always when riding and almost always when riding with max power, ie exactly when you really don't want your chain to break).

Now this means you have compromised the outer plate when you drive that hardened steel mushroom through it to break the chain. So, what to do? Skip that pair of outer plates entirely and use a quick-link with its own pins that are not peened going through perfect new metal. Quick links are just as strong as the chain around it. Outer plates that have had that mushroom driven through them (twice) have been stressed past yield and may well have microscopic starter cracks emanating from the hole. Any second semester sophomore engineering student can give you the rap on why that is bad.

If you ride that compromised link gently enough, you may get some good miles out of it. Just keep in mind, it will break and it will break when you are going your hardest. Ask yourself - is that acceptable? (Or ride gently and replace often. I find using the quick link in the box works out cheaper.)

ScottCommutes

Sorry, oldtimer. Sometimes you have to learn new tech. Old time mechanics learned to work on fuel injection after decades of working on carburetors. Then it was computers. Progress happens.

The new way is to use a chain tool to shorter a chain only. Use a special link to put the chain back together. Once you get the hang of it, quick links are actually pretty easy to work with and pretty reliable.

bboy314

When you push a peened pin through a chain, you are damaging that outer chain plate. Use the connector the chain was designed for. Sometimes technology changes over time, and mechanics are wise to learn and adjust their practices accordingly.

JohnDThompson 

I've been doing that for years with SedisSport chain pieces from my time at Trek. But the SedisSport is a pinned chain, not riveted like modern chains, and quick-links aren't needed.

JohnDThompson 

Some chains (e.g. Campagnolo 11 speed) are designed to have the pin re-peened to join the ends. A special tool was used for this; Campagnolo's official tool is pretty costly, but Park made an affordable version.

Kontact

They also aren't intended for Shimano 8 (4.8mm) or narrower. Sedis 8 speed chains were for Campy and Sachs 8 speed, which were 7 speed (5mm) spacing.

You can't "re-peen" a Campagnolo chain. That tool is for riveting in new pins, not re-using old ones.

Sy Reene

Trying to get my head around this. Doesn't any new chain out of the box need to be broken at the point along the chain that determines the correct length needed for a given bike? Are you saying that (eg. Campagnolo) many chains that don't ship with a quicklink, but do ship with a pin, are starting off compromised?

Sy Reene

Was it clear that the OP had to or wanted to reuse the old pin? What are these things for (sold by the hundred) if not for re-joining chains with a pin?

Kontact

Pretty darn clear.

Those pins are definitely the other way to go, but I don't know if they are trustworthy on non- Shimano chains. Probably.

Kontact

No. They have you cut the chain to leave an inner link, then you pin through the exposed outer link. But driving pins in or out doesn't damage the links, just the pins.

altenwrencher

Thanks, all, for the intelligent discussion. My aversion to links has been tempered: I just bought and installed a full length SRAM 8 speed chain on my early 1970s Raleigh Competition with a new Sunrace 5 speed freewheel. A tip from the mechanic at the bike shop: put the link on the upper run of the chain (between FW and chainring.) Squeeze the rear brake. Hit the pedal down with a rubber mallet. (I used a 1X4 on the crank arm) Voila. Thoroughly Modern Mike (moi.)

Kontact

Most of us just step on the pedal.

altenwrencher

My bike is hanging from a rafter by a strap. The way I do it saves the effort of bringing it down to the floor and back up. I tried the floor and stepping on the pedal once and it felt a bit awkward, but I am sure with practice it would be just like riding a bike, once you've got the hang of it.

JohnDThompson 

The OP explicitly states that
Point taken. Incorrect word choice on my part.

KCT1986

Those Shimano pins are for installing a new chain or adding links if necessary.

They are designed to better engage the plates. See the profile below.