penexpers

Hi,

I am going to start buying parts for a BD in the hope that I get one of the frames in the next batch. I am looking at alternatives to the Rohloff speedhub, mainly just to see how the costs stack up. I am not really well up on MTB drivetrains so what would people recommend for the BD.

Thanks!

vik 

I have a Rohloff, but if I hadn't got one I'd build up something like the following:

- LX disc rear hub
- 36H or 40H freeride rim
- LX mega range 8 or 9 speed cassette 11-34
- LX or XT rear dérailleur
- Deore crankset 22/32/42
- LX front dérailleur
- bar end shifter [mounted on Paul's Thumbies if needed depending on the bars]

I've used the same drivetrain on touring bikes and been pleased. Good function for the $$$.

santiago

My current BD build:

- Deore 32H disc front and rear hub
- Deore 9 speed 11-34 cassette
- SRAM X-7 rear derailleur
- SRAM X-9 triggers
- LX front derailleur
- LX crankset 22/32/42
- SRAM PC-991 chain


Here are my thoughts so far:
- I may bump up the rear hub to a 36H as I busted a spoke recently but it came from a hardtail that got abused the way it was meant to be. My LBS changed all the spokes as he didn't like the ones that were on as they were all no-name generic spokes. I'll see how that goes.

- I usually use X-9 rear derailleurs but decided to go slightly cheaper with the X-7. I think I'll switch back to the X-9 if I ever bust this one as I didn't know the X-7 had such large jockey wheels. I find it a pain to remove the rear wheel. For some reason I find it easier on my X-9 bikes.

- I love Shimano outboard bearing cranks. They are very easy to work with and I have them on all my bikes (960-XTR on my FS, Compact on my road bike, LX on my BD).

- The Deore cassette is what was on my donor bike. I haven't had any problems using the worn cassette with my new chain/new cranks but will be changing it soon as I don't want any issues. I'll be moving up to LX or whatever is the lowest level Shimano that has the spider carrier as I don't like using the lower end blocks of lead.

- The LX front derailleur does what it's supposed to without any issues.

- SRAM chains with the Power Link are just awesome.

Bear in mind that a lot of the above is probably rooted in prejudice and superstition. All you have to do is a search for the term "Shimano vs SRAM" to see what i mean. I settled on certain elements because they worked well for me and I found no need to move away from them. That's not to say that the alternatives won't serve you well.

JeffS

How does a standard drivetrain shift on the dummy? Does the extra chain length create any problems (not really problems per-se... I guess I mean is there a different feel, a delay or anything)?

I've been gripped with decision paralysis while my bare frame hangs sadly on the wall.

santiago

No problems whatsoever. I feel no delays and everything works crisply. Although I did put an old tube on the cross bar that runs perpendicular to the chain line I honestly do not think I've ever seen or felt it slap. I hop curbs with it and have ridden on gravel trails.

Oh that reminds me, I also have about 1.5 chain length ofSRAM PC-991. I'll update my listing above.

surfimp

What about a Nexus 8 speed internal hub? I guess you'd have to run a chain tensioner like on the Rohloff, but it seems to give you the clean lines & low maintenance of the Rohloff for less cost and obviously with less range and Teutonic (over?)engineering/precision/whatever. Seems like a decent alternative, all things considered, so long as it was paired with an appropriate chainring up front.

Steve

penexpers

From my limited understanding, I don't think the Nexus 8 will take the heavy loads on the rear. I could be wrong about that though.

Thanks for the replies so far. Seems like you can build up a good drivetrain for not too much $$$. I have a tough choice to make.

santiago

If you haven't tried a SRAM drivetrain, I recommend you find someone with that kind of set up and give it a whirl. I really love how the 1:1 actuation feels. I had Shimano triggers on a hardtail and liked them but the moment I tried the SRAM thumb-shifters I was sold.

If you're not aware, you must use a SRAM rear thumb shifter with a SRAM derailleur as they are both 1:1 actuation. SRAM does make a Shimano compatible rear shifter but if you're going to go with a Shimano rear derailleur I'd stick with the Shimano shifters.

There is no restriction for the front shifter/front derailleur combinations.

bizzz111

I also have the sram setup on my xtracycle. Very very nice. I would highly recommend it. Pretty easy to dial in and haven't had to adjust it at all in over 700 miles.

Elkhound

Don't bakfiesten use a Nexus 8?

Maxwell

I'm liking the SRAM X7 parts that came on my complete just fine. I think it shifts better than the LX stuff on my mtb did when new. My only minor gripe with the X7 stuff, the dérailleur has a weird cable guide on it that makes the rear wheel hard to get out.

As far as internal hubs, AllenG is way into the NuVinci hub, I'm planning on trying one some day. He says he's destroyed some shimano and sram internal hubs on his electrified xtracycle. My dad has a bike with a nexus 8, not geared very low, and it feels a little grindy if you stomp on it real hard. I could definitely see it exploding if used for cargo duty.

Allen

Yep, I am. It's still going strong, smooth as silk, dead silent, and no problems.
I've not owned a Shimano IGH as yet. I have cracked a SA-8 (geared way to high for utility bikes) and two SRAMs could not hold up (constantly slipping gears).

Of the hubs I've owned I think the NuVinci is the most robust, even more so than my Rohloffs.

surfimp

According to Clever Cycles, yes: https://clevercycles.com/store/?c=web2.68

The bakfiets has a 180lb. load rating for the box up front, and a 70lb. load rating for the rack in back. Combined that's more than an Xtracycle is rated for. Not sure what the Big Dummy rating is, though presumably the same / similar? Not sure if the X's rating is more related to the subframe itself or to the durability of the v-racks / wideloaders / etc.

So theoretically if it works for a bakfiets it ought to work for an Xtracycle / Big Dummy... but then again theory and practice do tend to diverge, often at rather critical junctures

I guess it would depend on whether one planned to routinely carry close to max gross weight or not.

Steve

Allen

I would recommend a chain tensioner of some sort anyway. Given the length of the chain, I had bounce problems where the chain would hop over the teeth of the IGH's cog, which can cause damage to your hub. A chain tensioner cures this issue completely.

penexpers

May I ask how much the NuVinci hub is and where one may acquire it?

Allen

Fallbrook Tech<--The manufacturer
It's carried by Seattle Bicycle Supply. Your LBS should be able to order it. Prices online run about $325-$375 (The anodized version going for more).
Video showing how it works

It has a caveat. It's huge, which is why it can handle big loads, but it means it weighs a ton--ton and half (seriously your rear tire will come in at over ten pounds). Have it laced up double crossed, triple crossing the spokes puts the nipples at too steep of an angle.

It is absolutely smooth, has a 250% gear range, is completely quiet--not even clicking when costing, and is robust enough to be used as a transmission on a vehicle as large as a golf cart (scaled up versions are in use in tractors). For a utility bike I think it is a perfect hub.

Allen

penexpers

Thanks for the replies. I don't think that weight will be a concern for my BD so I think I will go and buy the NuVinci hub.

Thanks everyone for the input.

Elkhound

Anyone had any experience with one of these?

https://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/index.html

JeffS

You apparently haven't been following the big dummy threads...

vik 

What's a Roollhoff????...

santiago

I built up my Big Dummy with the idea of making it similar to my mountain bike and wanted to keep the costs relatively low, otherwise there's a good chance I would have gone with the NuVinci, too. Good choice!

penexpers

Does anyone know where I can source a NuVinci hub in Europe? I've done some searching over the weekend, but I haven't found anywhere that sells them yet. I don't think there's much point in trying my LBS.

cman

I like the inchworm

santiago

Maybe you can get the kit from the US and have the wheel built up locally.

I am in Canada but my "LBS" is actually in Colorado. I use "Mountain High Cyclery", an outfit run by Larry Mettler who is really well known by mountain bikers. He does ship to me in Canada so I suspect he may ship overseas. The best part is that he charges actual shipping charges and his prices are very reasonable. I no longer use the JensonUSA/PricePoints/etc. of the world as Larry's prices are very competitive and the customer service is second to none.

Here's the contact page. Pay no heed to the outdated web page, he does answer his emails and if he has access to the NuVinci stuff he'll get it for you.
https://www.mtnhighcyclery.com/mhc5.htm

Here's my story showing you the level of customer service. When I first heard of the Big Dummy several months back I sent him a note asking if he could get Surly products and if he could get the Big Dummy. This was way back in the prototype stage. He obviously could not get them but then one day, out of the blue, I got an email from him telling me that Big Dummies were available that morning and if I still wanted it. This was months and months after my initial contact. I ordered my Big Dummy from him along with a bunch of the necessary parts needed to complete the build.

So, take the tme to email Larry and see if he could get you NuVinci stuff.