daviddavieboy

This thread could possibly be one of the most opinionated (in a good way) of ay on BF. Personally I have bikes that are an investment as well as daily riding. On the investment side the best of the best is all Campagnolo SR while the daily riding/commuting is a Shimano/Suntour setup with bar end shifting. While the pretty Campy stuff does work ok and is bombproof one cannot deny the pleasure of shifting and hitting the right gear every time without much faff.

So without constraints a full, early Record group with high flange hubs would be for me but it must be on a frame in Molteni orange.

Also, thanks for mentioning that flex head 10mm wrench. I just ordered some wrench type to keep in the saddle bags.

JackJohn

txs, sent you a pm…

bark_eater 

I'm always interested to seeing original best of the best Pre-Groupo bikes, particularly touring rigs. And that's the era of parts rabbit hole I've explored. Now we're entering a Post-Groupo world with lots of remnants to choose from.

My parts pile is a little light on top shelf componentry, besides the box of Dura ace 7 speed freewheel technology. And just to add a bit of parts gumbo trivia, I had a wheel set built with a rear Phil hub, spaced for 126mm 7 speed, and the wheel builder had trouble with it because of excessive dish.

So that's a bit of an expensive "sub-optimum" combination.

mpetry912 

Very nice. Like that triple crank setup. On a Serotta no less

the 7800 / 7900 hubs are really nice, maybe best ever.

I have a 7850 rear all built up, have not ridden it yet

/markp

JackJohn

Thanks!
The funny side will be to see how many “best” are around and what they are, it’s a very personal and subjective take with no absolute truth, which makes the beauty of our C&V world. As per what is “best” I meant a heart/guts choice rather than an investment one, the components you would choose for your own pleasure because you like them above all in the way they look, work, whatever…

shall I add your early Record pick as Super Record?

mpetry912 

I'm not seeing the "investment" side of the bike world right now. remembering tbe old days of selling Top 61 brakes for $1500 to buyers in Japan, well sadly that train has left the station..

there might be a very few bike components, very few, that remotely qualify as investment grade. Cinelli Bivalent hubs, Campy "doppler" shifters, maybe a few other items. See the wide range doppler shifter below, the only one I've ever seen.

people I know who are sitting on parts stashes are upside down right now and there's little hope that situation will turn anytime soon. I just hope that those wonderful parts don't end up going into landfill. But the "addressable market" for C&V bikes and components is pretty small right now.

But I do agree this is a good thread.

/markp

Jeff Wills

I see that some of you have included components from the ‘90’s and ‘00’s where the OP specified ‘60’s through’80’s. No matter, this is all subjective.

Given a choice and my riding preferences, I’d bridge the ‘80’s and ‘90’s:

Shimano Deore XT M730/732 hubs
Deore XT M730 cranks w/round SG-X rings
Deore XT M730 cantilever brakes
Deore XT M732 derailleurs
Deore XT M095/M735 Rapidfire Plus (trigger) shifters

I’d choose these for their exceptional functionality and superb durability. The only thing I’d change is upgrade the rear cassette to 9-speed. (It can be done with creative parts swapping.) I’d put these parts on a road or mountain bike and ride ‘til the wheels fall off.

daviddavieboy

Although I do have a 80's SR group on a Moser and it is wonderful to ride as well as keeping up performance wise on 'b' group rides I partake in, the Record I was thinking of is the version from 1960ish. It may not be nearly as refined but I love looking at it. ❤️ (pic stolen from internets)




I understand what you mean but again the term 'investment' can mean many things. For purely monetary values old bike parts are not great. For example I have many parts which are SELLING on fleabay for 2-3x what I paid a decade ago and my portfolio has grown many, many times that. I invest for the future and not interested in cashing out anytime soon. My house and land is going to my kids and if my grandkids show any interest they can have the bikes.

70sSanO

DA 7700 crank would have been my choice except for the use of a spider for the triple.

As the years ticked away and I was looking for a replacement for my 7400 crank, ended up going with a 6503.

The other problem was the 7700 rebuildable BB. Great concept but difficult to execute. BB-7703 is great.

John

Nemosengineer 

20160602_172355 by nemosengineer, on Flickr

20160519_151505 by nemosengineer, on Flickr

20160320_170124 by nemosengineer, on Flickr

20160220_133953 (2) by nemosengineer, on Flickr

: Mike

merziac

Such a moving target, I never really know if a vision will work well until I get it done, almost always does but I think much of it is luck of the draw and up until recently the depth of the pile to work with that is seriously depleted after yielding several great builds the last couple of years.

Each bike is different and I spent awhile stockpiling good stuff so I can usually get a good setup with some thought and luck.

Fredo76

I skipped the '80s pretty much, so I don't have an opinion in many categories, and won't claim all-Campy '70s stuff is all better. Hell, I had Suntour Cyclone derailleurs on my last racing bike in the '70s.

But my best-of-breed bike has a Phil Wood square-taper sealed bottom bracket, and will never need another.

I have a wheelset with Scheeren Weltmeister 220g wood-filled tubular rims that is lighter than my carbon wheelset, but Clement Criterium Seta sew-ups to put on them are NLA. Continental Giros are doing fine, though.

JackJohn

Ok perfect, will add it…

JackJohn

…so… what are your picks???

JackJohn

Poll updated!!!

to be sure, 90s and later parts mentioned are not in the list for time consistency reasons, we agree this is purely arbitrary but just wanted to center the question around the 70s, allowing one decade before and after just not to be too strict.

Not enough votes yet to comment and unsurprisingly no major trends so far, choices are well diversified. However… Suntour starts to shine with its Cyclone RD and Superbe hubs… let’s see when more votes come in…

El Chaba

One difference between the Delta and the A9 is that the Delta is equipped with o-ring seals. The A9 is still well sealed , especially if you pack it with enough grease to form a seal of its own. The new A9 headsets no longer have the roller bearings but have cartridge bearings instead. I have a couple in use and they seem fine, but time will tell if they have they same incredible durability of the originals. I agree that these are the best headsets of all time, IME…

mpetry912 

right. The replacement bearing rings for the A9 are available open stock. I have several bikes with just the bottom A9 assembly, using the top cup and nut from a Campy or shimano headset. Works fine.

/markp

El Chaba

One additional note on the Stronglight A9…It is still made in metric (French) threading. Not many people stock that model, but it is available. Alex Singer always has stock on hand and ordering is as easy as a couple of emails. This model stands head and shoulders above any other metric threaded option available today. The stack height for the A9 is 39 mm, so it is perfectly compatible with the Campagnolo road standard, but is a little tall for direct replacement for many older French headsets. I know this is a tangent, but while we are on the subject…..

Mr. 66

Poor Dura Ace 7200, nobody has picked you...

As a solitary I will redeem you in black for hubs, white calipers, and a long cage crane.







Dura Ace 7200 you can be my friend...

The Golden Boy 

This is favorite (best) components irrespective of compatibility with each other?

My list is going to be goofy because it's going to be all touring/ATB units.

I'm going to cheat because everyone does with this sort of thing.

• SHIFTERS: Suntour Command
• REAR DER.: Dura Ace 7803
• FRONT DER.: Suntour Mountech
• BRAKE LEVERS: Tektro RRL drilled
• BRAKE CALIPERS: Shimano XT M732
• CRANK: Sugino AT
• PEDALS: SR SP-11
• BOTTOM BRACKET: Phil Wood
• HEADSET: Stronglight A9
• HUBS: Phil Wood
• FW: Shimano Ultegra
• RIMS: Super Champion Modele 58
• SEATPOST: Suntour XC Pro
• SADDLE: Brooks B17

SHIFTERS: Suntour Command: Command shifters are just the best shifters.

REAR DER.: Dura Ace 7803: The rear derailleur thing is hard- may favorite friction derailleur has been the triple pulley Suntour XC. My favorite Accushift derailleur is XC Pro (which I would choose over any XT or M900 XTR). However my favorite derailleur is the Dura Ace 7803- but I haven't used it as a friction derailleur in the rear- if one wants to get timeframe pedantic- I guess I can shift to the 7703- but the 7803 is better.

FRONT DER.: Suntour Mountech: The Suntour Mountech is the best front derailleur. It's lighter than most any other derailleur, it has a fantastic range, it's durable, it can be used with or without a cable stop, it's a nice looking unit... its just the best derailleur- as opposed to any of the Mountech rear derailleurs.

BRAKE LEVERS: Tektro RRL drilled: Again, another cheat with the Tektro RRL levers. First- I get they're really recent. Second- I get that they're ugly (something about "a millennial's idea of what a vintage brake lever would look like"). But they're just the best levers. They're wide enough not to be hand hatchets, they're supportive, the levers splay out to meet your fingers, you can use them as another hand position on top, they can be set for different brakes, they have a quick release... they're just the game changer of brake levers.

BRAKE CALIPERS: Shimano XT M732: This is a toss up between the Suntour XC Pro cantilevers and the last "medium profile" XT brakes... While the XC Pro brakes have the 'unlimited travel' thing that allows them to be set and set the spring tension however you want, the XT brakes have the ability to balance spring tension, great adjustability of pad angle, and truthfully- they're the best looking, IMO. The M732 brakes are an upgrade to any of the previous XT or Deore or AL brakes- they can be switched from SLR to normal, they can balance spring tension, they have a slight weight savings and they have that straight top edge which just looks nicer.

PEDALS: SR SP-11: These are the descendants of the Lyotard Marcel Berthet pedals. While I haven't used the MKS Urban Platform pedals, I have a set of the White Industries pedals version of these and I, in all honesty, prefer the SP-11. I don't use cleats or any special cycling shoe (hmmm...) but the SP-11 seems to be the most supportive in the right areas for my feet.

BOTTOM BRACKET: Phil Wood: I have 2 Phil BBs and 2 Suntour VX BBs. Those Suntour units are almost 40 years old (one actually may be 40) and have never been overhauled, one Phil is ancient and not been overhauled as far as I know, and one Phil is new. I cannot tell the difference in spinning resistance or looseness or anything between the 4 units. I fully expect them to outlive me.

HEADSET: Stronglight A9: This was difficult for me... Headsets aren't something that I've given a whole lot of thought about. There's ones like the Tange Falcon which seemed to be used on everything from entry level to lower high end bikes-...There's the Tange Nova on my Miyata 1000LT... One of these days I'd like to throw down and get a Chris King, just because... Then there's the first item listed in the thread- the Stronglight A9; the A9 is really nice- it's much more lightweight than the Tange units I know of. I've never used the Stronglight Delta- but I can see where that would have improvements on the A9 design, but I've got 2 A9s in use... so I'll go with that.

HUBS: Phil Wood: I've got a couple of sets of the Suntour sealed bearing hubs and they're fantastic. A few years ago I came into a set of first generation Phil hubs... fantastic. Then I got some new Phil Wood hubs with cassette rear ends. Damn. Beautiful, bulletproof.

FW: Shimano Ultegra: Going along with the Phil cassette hubs, I've got an Ultegra cassette and a SRAM cassette- it's just my uneducated guess that the Ultegra cassette is a little more robust- which, for my application, is more important than being lighter- which the SRAM cassette feels to be.

RIMS: Super Champion/Wolber Modele 58: The Modele 58 seemed to be the standard for touring rims. I got a set of modern Pacenti Brevet rims that I think are awesome, but they're modern...

SEATPOST: Suntour XC Pro: If you're not a weight weenie/gram counter- you know you hear of "weight savings" among upper tier components and you think "grams ounce... what difference does it make, for real?" My Trek 720 came with a good seat post- but I wanted one with a little more adjustability and I found a Suntour XC Pro post- I was absolutely stunned at how much less the XC Pro weighed. Since then I've tried a couple of Superbe Pro, Dura Ace and XTR seat posts and nothing had that 'wow factor' that the XC Pro post did.

SADDLE: Brooks B17: I've gone round and round with vintage saddles, vintage styled saddles, the 'modern' update of a vintage saddle and even one of the modern Berthoud saddles. My favorite old saddle was a back and forth between the San Marco touring and the Avocet Touring II- which I would give to the Avocet because of the bag loops. I'd gotten a B17 and I finally understood why people love those things. Then I fell in love with the first generation Cambium saddles. I think I'm back to the B17.

merziac

Depends on the bike, build, sun, moon, tides, and...... the pile.

Almost always different, eclectic, etc.

Couple minor and not so picks.

Brooks, almost always, period.

Black bar tape, usually Cinelli cork, foam or the like.

Oury grips and Magura levers on MTB's.

Campy chrome HS.

SunTour bar ends, Schwinn Approved on Paramounts.

Campy R, S, NR hubs where appropriate.

Shimano Deerhead or MT F + RD's on MTB's.

Campy R, N, SR F + RD's where appropriate.

Campy R, N, SR brakes where appropriate.

79pmooney

I bought an '83 Pro Miyata off a forumite for its symmetric braze-on and the hope that it would follow in the footsteps of the '76 Fuji Pro I raced and loved. To the latter, yes!, yes! yes! - only better tubes, better ride and a better thought out bike. (Not that the Fuji was bad at all but it was very, very quick steering - fully appropriate for dodging Cat 3/4 crashes but not as another rider and bike design thought and tubings came a long ways in Japan over the seven years between.

The shifters - I'd used them on a couple of other bikes and my first TiCycles has the "braze-on" for the Superbe equivalent but - all those bikes have clearance under the DT. The Miyata is '89s race close. I jam my finger doing the one-handed double shifts on that oh-so-close front tire nearly every ride. Cycle Oregon's last week long ride was coming up. That bike was going but jamming my right index finger every day? Not fun.

So I made a guard. A thin plywood rectangle with radiused corners strapped to the DT under the shifters with zip ties. Wood shaped top fit against the DT epoxied to the top. I used nice wood and varnished it so it looks presentable. Worked wonderfully. Almost never thought about it but the entire week I (barely) touched the front tire once. Huge victory for this version of index (finger) shifting.

Edit: Oh, this bike is oh-so-close to being my dream bike. Cyclone FR, RD and brakes. Brakes a bit grabby that I think that's more a brake pad (Koolstop Salmon; I'll try Koolstop Black) and perhaps tire glue on the rim issue. A later Campy 52-42-30 triple. 7-speed 13-26 SRAM. Wonderful shifting! As goods as I've ever had. (Well I've had quicker in back but that has always come with unplanned shifts. I like this better.) Forte LOOK Delta compatible pedals. (Black no-float cleats for my knees always. The Fortes work really well for that.)

And I just picked up "the stem"! At that fantastic yard sale in Portland last Saturday. A 140mm SS Nitto! Absolutely gorgeous. I've seen plenty of stems in tig'd steel (Ti Cycles had built me a few) but always painted. Been riding an unknown painted steel 140 and the fit is simply as good as it gets; To replace such an important part (I consider the path between the road under my front wheel, through the fork, steerer and stem to the bars and levers to be "sacred" having lived through a failure on that path) with a stem this gorgeous by a manufacturer this solid in the perfect size - well, what can I say?

steelbikeguy

Bearing seals are funny things.. there must be one part of the seal that is sliding against another piece. This involves friction, which might wear down the seal. The solution is to lube the seal, but now the lube will attract dirt and crud. I had a Bullseye roller bearing bottom bracket that used motor oil as a lubricant. I noticed that it would leak a small amount of oil around the axle and asked Roger Durham about this in a letter (this was before email was common). Roger replied that for the seal to stay lubricated, a small amount of oil had to flow past the seal. I'm not a mechanical engineer, so not qualified to offer an opinion on the matter. Ultimately, I got rid of this bottom bracket because I didn't want to have to monitor the oil level and worry about it dripping oil inside the home!

Bringing this back to the Stronglight Delta... the seals are a nice touch! The downside is that the grease does migrate past the o-rings and attract dirt, sand, etc. After many miles, I've noticed that the abrasive crud actually grinds away a groove in the mating aluminum piece, thereby reducing the effectiveness of the seal. You can get a hint of that groove in this photo....




It does make you wonder if we wouldn't just be better off with zerk fittings where you just pump new grease in once in a while.... similar to SunTour's Grease Guard?

Steve in Peoria

non-fixie 

How should I know what to pick? I've only been doing this C&V thing for about 15 years, and I keep falling in love with newly discovered components every other week!

QED: found this at a swap meet two weeks ago. An Altenburger Champion RD. Didn't know it existed. How do I know what's best until I've tried this?

SurferRosa

If it's a '60s - '70s road bike, I'm not picky as long as it's NR/SR.

But if it's an '80s road bike ...

FD, RD: '80s Super Record
Brakeset: '80s Athena (with Kool-Stop)
Shifters, Crankset, BB: Triomphe
FW: 13-28t 7-speed (new/nos when possible)
Hubs: '70s-'80s Record
Pedals: '80s Chorus (w/ clips/straps)
Saddle: SM Rolls
Drop Bars: Cinelli 64-40