Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Is it possible to have a 12 x 12 speed? (144 speed)

Search
Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Is it possible to have a 12 x 12 speed? (144 speed)

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-22-12, 02:11 PM
  #1  
dantolen
Member
Thread Starter
 
dantolen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Is it possible to have a 12 x 12 speed? (144 speed)

12 chain rings on the back and an identical 12 on the front. Is this somehow possible? Wonder how it would ride.
dantolen is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 02:20 PM
  #2  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,355 Times in 862 Posts
Had a 3 cubed 27 speed bike in 1962, 3 speed hub, 3 cog cluster, triple crank.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 02:24 PM
  #3  
Tuc
collector
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tucson, Arizona USA
Posts: 471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a 30 speed now, 10 on the back, three in the front - but 144 would require two rear derailleurs to be used. sounds like an accident in the machine shop to put my feet anywhere near that much metal.
Tuc is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 02:27 PM
  #4  
nrowensby
Senior Member
 
nrowensby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 233

Bikes: 2006 Diamondback Century

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
nrowensby is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 02:30 PM
  #5  
HillRider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times in 742 Posts
Well, a 14-speed Rohloff IGH used with a triple crank and a 7-speed cassette will give 294 possible combinations if you are enthralled by large numbers. But, as asked above "Why"?
HillRider is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 02:39 PM
  #6  
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Posts: 12,257

Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
SRAM dual drive, 10sp cassette and 3 to 5 chainrings. 90~150 gear combinations possible.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 03:28 PM
  #7  
UnsafeAlpine
Domestic Domestique
 
UnsafeAlpine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,742

Bikes: Brand New Old Catamount! Schwinn Homegrown, Specialized FSR, Salsa Vaya, Salsa Chile Con Crosso

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Anything's possible.
UnsafeAlpine is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 05:50 PM
  #8  
GeoKrpan
George Krpan
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westlake Village, California
Posts: 1,708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Nuvinci, unlimited gear ratios.
GeoKrpan is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 06:56 PM
  #9  
davidad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,660
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 138 Posts
https://www.canosoarus.com/08LSRbicycle/LSR%20Bike02.htm if ya wanna go fast!
davidad is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 07:04 PM
  #10  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times in 1,579 Posts
Think of trying to pedal a bike that has 9 more chainrings between your legs. It's easy enough to buy or build a bike that has unusable/unnecessary gears at each end of the range.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 07:08 PM
  #11  
Sixty Fiver
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: YEG
Posts: 27,267

Bikes: See my sig...

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 129 Times in 96 Posts
Originally Posted by nrowensby
This.

One could build it but the redundancy and overlap would make shifting a nightmare and the effective range of gearing that a human being can turn is very small.
Sixty Fiver is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 07:42 PM
  #12  
Flying Merkel
Senior Member
 
Flying Merkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Costa Mesa CA
Posts: 2,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Why? Sheldon Brown's 63 speed bike.

It's an interesting project. Impractical, but fun to think about.
Flying Merkel is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 08:02 PM
  #13  
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Posts: 12,257

Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Hey, if you have to haul 1t of cargo on a bike, then 144sp could be quite desirable.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 08:17 PM
  #14  
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,119
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 943 Post(s)
Liked 659 Times in 372 Posts
My Quetzal recumbent came with 105 combinations. Triple crank, 5 speed mid drive, 7 speed cluster on the back. I converted it to a Rohloff with a single chain ring. Still have 5 cogs on the mid drive, but no means to shift them other than by hand. All but one of the mid drive cogs put the input ratio lower than that stipulated by Rohloff, so they are just there to take up space on the freewheel.
Guess you could say it is technically a 70 speed though.
Dan Burkhart is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 09:59 PM
  #15  
Myosmith
Lover of Old Chrome Moly
 
Myosmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NW Minnesota
Posts: 2,949
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times in 17 Posts
I'm still a believer that properly spaced 10x2 or 7x3 gives you all the gear combinations that the vast majority of riders will ever need. Heck, I remember when 12 and 15 speeds began replacing 10 speeds (5x2) and people were wondering what you needed all those gears for. There is a point where more adding gears for the sake of having more gears will produce one or more of three results: Gears so absurdly high or low as to be unusable, multiple redundant gear ratios, or gears with steps so small as to be insignificant and of no real benefit.
Myosmith is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 10:53 PM
  #16  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,355 Times in 862 Posts
A friends dad same early 60's fixed up 2_3 speeds, one had 2 sprockets,
one on the hubshell . 2 chain loops..

clever machining could run 2 CV nuVinci hubs 1 driving the other, to widen the range..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 11:52 PM
  #17  
RaleighSport
Hogosha Sekai
 
RaleighSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: STS
Posts: 6,669

Bikes: Leader 725, Centurion Turbo, Scwhinn Peloton, Schwinn Premis, GT Tequesta, Bridgestone CB-2,72' Centurion Lemans, 72 Raleigh Competition

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by AEO
SRAM dual drive, 10sp cassette and 3 to 5 chainrings. 90~150 gear combinations possible.
That's what came to mind for me to.

Edit: Just remembered.. do it old school. 63 speed yo. https://sheldonbrown.com/org/otb.html

Last edited by RaleighSport; 05-22-12 at 11:57 PM.
RaleighSport is offline  
Old 05-23-12, 06:02 AM
  #18  
IthaDan 
Senior Member
 
IthaDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 4,852

Bikes: Click on the #YOLO

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by AEO
Hey, if you have to haul 1t of cargo on a bike, then 144sp could be quite desirable.
More ratios does not mean more range. It would be interesting to see how many of the gear combinations overlap and how many are truly unique.
__________________

Shimano : Click :: Campy : Snap :: SRAM : Bang
IthaDan is offline  
Old 05-23-12, 06:16 AM
  #19  
rm -rf
don't try this at home.
 
rm -rf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,940
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 974 Post(s)
Liked 512 Times in 352 Posts
Just convert to a 1/4 inch pitch chain, instead of the current 1/2 inch chain.

Then you can put 20 cogs on the back.

Sheldon Brown's Nanodrive system.

(Sheldon seems to have all the answers in this thread!)
rm -rf is offline  
Old 05-23-12, 07:17 AM
  #20  
paulkal
Senior Member
 
paulkal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Holland
Posts: 952

Bikes: 2007 Nagasawa with C-Record, 1992 Duell with Croce D'aune/Chorus, three Gazelles, M5 recumbent

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by AEO
SRAM dual drive, 10sp cassette and 3 to 5 chainrings. 90~150 gear combinations possible.
Don't forget to add a Schlumpf bottom bracket gear to double number of the gears
paulkal is offline  
Old 05-23-12, 08:33 AM
  #21  
byte_speed
Roadkill
 
byte_speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 858

Bikes: 2002 Lightspeed Classic; 2010 Pedalforce RS

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Why?

The cross-chaining possibilities would be endless.

But, the trim mechanism might need some thought.
byte_speed is offline  
Old 05-23-12, 09:23 AM
  #22  
bluefoxicy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,214

Bikes: 2010 GT Tachyon 3.0

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Myosmith
Gears so absurdly high or low as to be unusable, multiple redundant gear ratios, or gears with steps so small as to be insignificant and of no real benefit.
The Megarange jump in the back is useful for those ridiculous hills that you're not going to climb on normal gears. You don't need to handle the range of crap nobody is going to climb with 5 or 6 mostly worthless cogs; put one big one there.

You know what would be even more interesting is a bike CVT. It's doable....
bluefoxicy is offline  
Old 05-27-12, 09:52 PM
  #23  
LarDasse74
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Grid Reference, SK
Posts: 3,768

Bikes: I never learned to ride a bike. It is my deepest shame.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
It would be gross.
LarDasse74 is offline  
Old 05-27-12, 11:49 PM
  #24  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times in 1,579 Posts
Originally Posted by Myosmith
I'm still a believer that properly spaced 10x2 or 7x3 gives you all the gear combinations that the vast majority of riders will ever need. Heck, I remember when 12 and 15 speeds began replacing 10 speeds (5x2) and people were wondering what you needed all those gears for. There is a point where more adding gears for the sake of having more gears will produce one or more of three results: Gears so absurdly high or low as to be unusable, multiple redundant gear ratios, or gears with steps so small as to be insignificant and of no real benefit.
Heh, for some reason, I thought you were younger than that.

For what it's worth, I think Schwinn's 5-speeds gave enough range for most people (39-90 GI, roughly). But the jumps between gears would be hard to sell these days.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 05-28-12, 07:25 AM
  #25  
HillRider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times in 742 Posts
Originally Posted by Myosmith
I'm still a believer that properly spaced 10x2 or 7x3 gives you all the gear combinations that the vast majority of riders will ever need. Heck, I remember when 12 and 15 speeds began replacing 10 speeds (5x2) and people were wondering what you needed all those gears for. There is a point where more adding gears for the sake of having more gears will produce one or more of three results: Gears so absurdly high or low as to be unusable, multiple redundant gear ratios, or gears with steps so small as to be insignificant and of no real benefit.
Well, we have a lot of bikes with absurdly high top gears. How many non-pro riders can make any real use of a 53x11 (or even a 50x12) high gear yet they are so common as to be nearly unavoidable on a newer road bike. "Absurdly low" low gears (<25 gear-inches) are another case as they do have their place on loaded touring and true off-road MTB riding.

From a historical perspective, every time an additional cog was added, there were those who loudly proclaimed it wasn't needed, the wheels would collapse, the chains would break, durability had gone out the window, etc. until they got used to N+1 only to repeat themselves the next time it happened. I've ridden 5,6,7,8,9 and 10-speed freewheels/cassettes and double and triple cranks over the past nearly 30 years and each increase brough some advantages and very few problems. There has to be a limit but I'm not ready to say where it is.
HillRider is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.