Vintage SUZUE & NORMANDY Hub Parts Interchangeability
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Vintage SUZUE & NORMANDY Hub Parts Interchangeability
I am building a set of wheels for a late 70's Raleigh Super Grand Prix using all Japanese components. The only Made In Japan hubs I have are some old SUZUE hubs, the rear of which has a solid bolt-on axle.
I thought to swap the axle with one from a mutilated Normandy hub but the QR axle is slightly larger in diameter than the solid axle. I then thought I'd use the cones as well from the Normandy but the ball bearings for the SUZUE are 1/4" diameter and the Normandy are 7/32" diameter.
So, can I use the Normandy axle and cones with the Suzue hub and if yes, which ball bearings should I use, 1/4" or 7/32" ?
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.
.
.
I thought to swap the axle with one from a mutilated Normandy hub but the QR axle is slightly larger in diameter than the solid axle. I then thought I'd use the cones as well from the Normandy but the ball bearings for the SUZUE are 1/4" diameter and the Normandy are 7/32" diameter.
So, can I use the Normandy axle and cones with the Suzue hub and if yes, which ball bearings should I use, 1/4" or 7/32" ?
.
.
.
.
Last edited by branko_76; 08-07-22 at 05:46 PM.
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I am building a set of wheels for a late 70's Raleigh Super Grand Prix using all Japanese components. The only Made In Japan hubs I have are some old SUZUE hubs, the rear of which has a solid bolt on axle.
I thought to swap the axle with one from a mutilated Normandy hub but the QR axle is slightly larger in diameter than the solid axle. I then thought I'd use the cones as well from the Normandy but the ball bearings for the SUZUE are 1/4" diameter and the Normandy are 7/32" diameter.
So, can I use the Normandy axle and cones with the Suzue hub and if yes, which ball bearings should I use, 1/4" or 3/32" ?.
I thought to swap the axle with one from a mutilated Normandy hub but the QR axle is slightly larger in diameter than the solid axle. I then thought I'd use the cones as well from the Normandy but the ball bearings for the SUZUE are 1/4" diameter and the Normandy are 7/32" diameter.
So, can I use the Normandy axle and cones with the Suzue hub and if yes, which ball bearings should I use, 1/4" or 3/32" ?.
So your rear Normandy hub as how many 7/32" ball bearings?
Sounds like what you might find in a Helicomatic hub(?).
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Mystery Solved
The mutilated hub, which looks as though someone grabbed it between the flanges with a pair of channel-lock pliers, had fresh amber colored grease (I only use Park or Phil) and an odd number of bearings, 10 one side and 11 the other, all 7/32". So I'm guessing that "Channel-Lock Man", used what he had on hand.
The mutilated hub, which looks as though someone grabbed it between the flanges with a pair of channel-lock pliers, had fresh amber colored grease (I only use Park or Phil) and an odd number of bearings, 10 one side and 11 the other, all 7/32". So I'm guessing that "Channel-Lock Man", used what he had on hand.
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Virgin Normandy Rear Hub
Old grease with (9) 1/4" bearings each side
Old grease with (9) 1/4" bearings each side
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Notes from a previous restoration....
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I am building a set of wheels for a late 70's Raleigh Super Grand Prix using all Japanese components. The only Made In Japan hubs I have are some old SUZUE hubs, the rear of which has a solid bolt-on axle.
I thought to swap the axle with one from a mutilated Normandy hub but the QR axle is slightly larger in diameter than the solid axle.
[snip]
So, can I use the Normandy axle and cones with the Suzue hub
.
.
.
I thought to swap the axle with one from a mutilated Normandy hub but the QR axle is slightly larger in diameter than the solid axle.
[snip]
So, can I use the Normandy axle and cones with the Suzue hub
.
.
.
Using a different set of axle+cones in the same hub will likely work, but there are three possible issues:
a) the cone may not fit in the dust-cap - can be too big (won't go at all) or too small (lets grit in);
b) the axle and cones may not fit the frame - in which case you may have to shorten the axle or remove/add spacers; and
c) hub cones and cups are ground[1] to specific curvatures and dimensions such that the line between the two points of contact is at an angle that best supports the expected combination of radial and thrust loads; substitute a cone with a slightly different curve and the angle may change considerably.
[1] Well, not all of them are ground, your Normandy ones are not, they are nasty stamped-and-case-hardened bits of cheap steel. Check them carefully, if unpitted and adjusted correctly (a *tiny* amount of loose play to be taken up when the qr tightens) you can get some use out of them. I bet the Suzue ones are better.
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Rear QR axles are 10mm, solid are 9.5.
Using a different set of axle+cones in the same hub will likely work, but there are three possible issues:
a) the cone may not fit in the dust-cap - can be too big (won't go at all) or too small (lets grit in);
b) the axle and cones may not fit the frame - in which case you may have to shorten the axle or remove/add spacers; and
c) hub cones and cups are ground[1] to specific curvatures and dimensions such that the line between the two points of contact is at an angle that best supports the expected combination of radial and thrust loads; substitute a cone with a slightly different curve and the angle may change considerably.
[1] Well, not all of them are ground, your Normandy ones are not, they are nasty stamped-and-case-hardened bits of cheap steel. Check them carefully, if unpitted and adjusted correctly (a *tiny* amount of loose play to be taken up when the qr tightens) you can get some use out of them. I bet the Suzue ones are better.
Using a different set of axle+cones in the same hub will likely work, but there are three possible issues:
a) the cone may not fit in the dust-cap - can be too big (won't go at all) or too small (lets grit in);
b) the axle and cones may not fit the frame - in which case you may have to shorten the axle or remove/add spacers; and
c) hub cones and cups are ground[1] to specific curvatures and dimensions such that the line between the two points of contact is at an angle that best supports the expected combination of radial and thrust loads; substitute a cone with a slightly different curve and the angle may change considerably.
[1] Well, not all of them are ground, your Normandy ones are not, they are nasty stamped-and-case-hardened bits of cheap steel. Check them carefully, if unpitted and adjusted correctly (a *tiny* amount of loose play to be taken up when the qr tightens) you can get some use out of them. I bet the Suzue ones are better.
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I tried swapping the QR axle and cones from the Normandy rear to the Suzue but it's not going to work, I'll just leave the solid axle in the Suzue and use it for another project. The Normandy hubs will stay with the Raleigh Super Grand Prix.
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note for anyone seeking axle parts for Maillard produced hubs -
member verktyg has made several highly detailed posts on this topic with fine measurements, drawings and closeup photos
he covers both the ordinary quality axle parts found on Atom, Normandy Sport and Schwinn Approved Maillard built models as well as the higher quality parts on the Luxe Competition model hubs
was surprised to learn there are three differing contours for Luxe Competition model cones
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note for anyone seeking axle parts for Maillard produced hubs -
member verktyg has made several highly detailed posts on this topic with fine measurements, drawings and closeup photos
he covers both the ordinary quality axle parts found on Atom, Normandy Sport and Schwinn Approved Maillard built models as well as the higher quality parts on the Luxe Competition model hubs
was surprised to learn there are three differing contours for Luxe Competition model cones
-----
Last edited by juvela; 08-12-22 at 10:22 AM. Reason: spellin'
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addendum -
forgot to mention above that the Maillard facility in Incheville closed permanently in 1991 so it has now been over thirty year since any Maillard bits produced
enthusiasts need to be creative with their spanner twistin' efforts when it comes to keeping the products in good running order...
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addendum -
forgot to mention above that the Maillard facility in Incheville closed permanently in 1991 so it has now been over thirty year since any Maillard bits produced
enthusiasts need to be creative with their spanner twistin' efforts when it comes to keeping the products in good running order...
-----
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Mystery Solved
The mutilated hub, which looks as though someone grabbed it between the flanges with a pair of channel-lock pliers, had fresh amber colored grease (I only use Park or Phil) and an odd number of bearings, 10 one side and 11 the other, all 7/32". So I'm guessing that "Channel-Lock Man", used what he had on hand.
The mutilated hub, which looks as though someone grabbed it between the flanges with a pair of channel-lock pliers, had fresh amber colored grease (I only use Park or Phil) and an odd number of bearings, 10 one side and 11 the other, all 7/32". So I'm guessing that "Channel-Lock Man", used what he had on hand.
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Did that used to be true? Wheels Mfg sells both types in all sorts of interchangeable dimensions.
https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-axles.html
https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-axles.html
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Did that used to be true? Wheels Mfg sells both types in all sorts of interchangeable dimensions.
https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-axles.html
https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-axles.html