Marezz

CV road bike, should I get one? Are they reliable after so many years since manufacture?

First let me apologize for my english, I dont know the names of bike parts so I will try to be descriptive as possible

After I saw my friends F. Moser road bike last summer, I instantly fell in love with this kind of bikes. After I took it for a spin, I decided to get myself a bike like that.
Problem is, people from a bike forum in my country *strongly* advise me against it, they say "Dont waste your money on 20-30 year old steel crap" "When some part gets broken, there is no new/modern replacement that can fit those antique frames" Some even say there is a risk that they are rusty from the inside.

Then, they also mention some cons like:
- they use old 6-7s threaded rear hub and freewheel, modern bikes use newer hubs and cassettes (8s+)
- fork cups/headset (?), they (threads) get loosen (eaten) after some time so you have to tighten them all the time
- bottom brackets (that piece where you attach cranks and pedals to), when its used up, good luck finding replacement
- steel wheels, more weight & lower braking power than aluminium, especially when its raining
- no STI's

Is all that true? Would I be stuck with old parts? I wouldnt need more than 8s hub & cassette since Im not a pro

They said not to bother with road cycling unless I have atleast 400 eur (529 USD) to spend for modern entry level bike... Now, Im a poor guy and I dont have that kind of money and even if I did, I just couldnt spend that much for a bike concerning my current financial situation. And to be honest, I like CV design a lot more than these modern road bikes.

I wanted to buy CV road bike and after parts would fail, I would gradually replace them with modern ones (Tiagra tops)

Could you please give me your opinion and advice?

mickey85

You can put anything on an old frame that you want. There's a thread here that is dedicated to old frames with STI/Ergo brake levers.

Sure, they came with 6-7s freewheels, how much more do you need? You can always upgrade the hubs. The bottom bracket is easily replaced with the bajillion spindles and sealed bottom brackets that are out there, the brakes work as well as anything, they're generally designed with an äll day geometry" that allows greater comfort. The derailers are bolted on with the same threading as any modern bike, or if you find one without a hanger, get a new derailer with a claw that adapts it to the frame. The seatpost sizing is standardized, as is the stem, for the most part.

Yeah, there are some weirdos - swiss, french, and Raleigh threading comes to mind, but you can find work arounds, if you find one of those bikes that you really love. Everything else is standard threading or Italian threading which is still used on a bunch of high-end bikes. Basically, you could take everything off of a new bike (except for a few bits - the stem, as it's a different type, for instance) and swap it over.

Sure, get one. They're fun. They're the only thing I ride. The one problem I see with your plan is that I've never found something to wear out on a properly maintained vintage bike. It gets dirty, you clean it, you ride it. Nothing I've ever encountered on the nastiest most worn out bikes needs replaced, unless it's badly rusted (which you probably won't have).

ThermionicScott 

+1. Old bikes are fun, and lots of replacement or substitute parts can still be found, even if they're not made anymore.

20grit

I have a 1974 Gazelle frame that has components from every decade since. I think older bikes are fairly adaptable.

plodderslusk

Try to talk to some of those roadies who speak badly of "20-30 year old steel crap" and tell them that you want to buy that old piece of crap that they (or their father)raced on in the eighties and that is just gathering dust in their basement. I have bought and sold a lot of these old roadbikes here in Norway and with a bit of luck you can find bikes with a lot of life left. My present "oldtimer" is a Team Miyata from 87 that has a new wheelset and chain, The rest of the bike is original (9 speed downtubefrictionshifting) Bottom Bracket and headset still going strong after 25 years.

Marezz

@mickey85

This might sound dumb or silly, but would I still be able to go fast with 6-7s and keep up with modern bikes? I also remember them saying that modern hub and cassette cant fit rear fork, is that true? (dont need more than 8s)
What about fork cups/headset/threads? Do they indeed get loosen/eaten after some time? Is there any cure for that?

RALEIGH_COMP 

Just take a look at most any of the threads on the C&V forum. people are still doing all kinds of things with many kinds of older vintage bikes. however I dont really know what the bike market is like in Serbia, in USA people tend to get caught up in popular trends and be done with them rather quickly. that results in a relatively abundant second hand market. are there a lot of older bikes circulating in your area that you notice? maybe ask someone you know, or see alot with an older bike, what they do or where they go to maintain their bicycle locally.

those things dont just get 'eaten' by themselves. but they can definitely get rusted and the grease contaminated if left in the rain all the time. they usually just need to be disassembled and re-greased. also the ball bearings (which are very cheap) can/ should be replaced when new grease is put in. most older bikes can have new life breathed into them with the right tools and a tub of grease. most of the components still work fine. if anything a chain, tires/ tubes, and possibly cables, all of which are usually readily available. even 27 inch tires are easy to come by new.

mainstreetexile 

Yes. But you're obviously going to get biased responses from this forum, since we're all here because we love "20-30 year old steel crap"

The only issue may be the availability of parts or even of quality bikes in your particular area since you'll be buying used whatever local people may have purchased and owned previously. However, if you want to pay a little more, I'm sure you can find a lot of awesome bikes and parts on ebay that can be shipped from all over Europe.

CenturionIM

It's totally doable, just check out how many people hangout here. You just have to be willing to learn and spend time working on the bike.

Steel frame can last a long time, but it all depends on how previous owner/you take care of it. Namely, keep it dry, painted and away from road salt. Same with components, you'd be surprised how many 80's cheap component still works great if you keep them properly maintained.

old bike rear wheel spacing is 126 mm for 7-8 speeds. Modern bike wheel spacing is 130mm to accomodate 9-10 speeds. If you have a steel frame, cold setting will take care of that. Or you can take it to a metal workshop. Should be plenty easy.

Marezz

When it comes to vintage road bikes in Serbia, its really hard to find a good one, its mostly low quality bikes like ROG (brand from Slovenia), Unis (Bosnia and Herzegovina) and lower end Puch bikes. They like to overprice them and they dont really take care of them.
From time to time better bikes pop up in ads like: F. Moser, Bianchi, Peugeot, Cilo, Mondia, Mali, Raleigh, Giant...

@RALEIGH_COMP Thats just it, they dont maintain them at all, they just ride them until something breaks, then they find cheapest replacement for that part >.<

Chombi

Tell us if you buddies find any "steel crap" bikes out there and we'll be glad to take them!.....
Unfortunately, you might be spending too much time with people who do not really understand what C&V bikes are all about and I doubt if they ever owned one, much less ridden a C&V bike before. I suggest you find a group of C&Vers in your area to talk to before you consider getting a C&V bike for yourself, and if what you find out about C&V bikes and their rides continue to interest you you can go ahead and get your own C&V bike and hang around and ride with them, otherwise your C&V experience will certainly be not very pleasant if all you hear from your riding buddies would be negative comments about your older bike.

Chombi

Marezz

@Chombi There is tons of vintage bikes in ads here, most of them have 2nd paint and dont look too good.
Here is the link to the ads section of the most popular bike site in here so you can see with what Im dealing here

EDIT: Thats a great suggestion, I will try to find C&V folks here but Im afraid they are in minority
Its a shame we dont have many people like that in here and the fact that they dont see further than new SCOTT, CUBE, etc just makes me sad >.<

Chombi

I skimmed through the bikes on the first page in that link and I already see a good number of C&V bikes that many in this forum would consider owning...there's even a PX10 (if it is indeed a PX10) listed in there, one of the most popular 70's C&V bikes here......plus a few interesting looking Puchs and Bianchis.
Hang around here and look into the C&V appraisals and sales forum too and you might get a good idea on what is considered something good to buy as a C&V starter bike as many would mention what too watch out for and look for on them.

Chombi

Marezz

Oh, that PX10 is "Want to buy" ad

RobbieTunes

I wish I lived there. I'd go around buying up some of those old "no longer any good bikes."
As far as parts, ebay is the best used bike parts shop there is. This place is also great for parts.

I sure wouldn't worry about being able to find parts.
I sure wouldn't worry about keeping pace with other folks (it's the engine).
With the money you save, you can have two.

RobbieTunes

\

I think it would be a great way to cross social boundaries. It works here fairly well for that.
I mean, really, once everyone is in stretch pants.....

randyjawa 

I ride my old road bicycles all the time and have few problems, either with mechanical failure or lack of comfort. Visit my website (see link below) and start learning about how great it is to find, rebuild and ride old road bicycles. Hope you have a good time and good luck with your new interest (love).

And, welcome to the Bike Forums.

mickey85

the headset never goes bad, or almost never, and is replaceable anyway. I keep up with the local club on a steel 12 speed. it'll be able to keep up, unless you ride the tour de France. if you want to upgrade, you can spread the rear to fit basically any size you want.

AlphaRed

As far as fast.... Well there are plenty of great old bikes that you will probably never be able to use to there full exstint. For a new quality road bike here in the states the price starts at $1500 American and levels out at 4 - 5 thousand easy. You can get a very nice steel bike for 3 - 5 hundred and it will last you a life time and all your friends will envy you. Good luck and have fun.

Steve

Pars 

Take care of a vintage bike and you will rarely need to work on it, other than the usual maintenance items (chain, tires/tubes, occasional bearing repacks, etc.). Not much different from a modern bike, other than you can often rebuild things on a vintage bike. It seems that many modern components come from the remove and replace school of thought.

gomango

I have a 1990 De Rosa Professional with DA 7400.

Was built for the captain of the University of Minnesota team.

I am the second owner.

The function of the components is still crisp and positive.

Wheels perfectly true and rim wear low.

Everything runs as it should on a top shelf club racer.

The trick?

Consistent periodic care including maintenance and a little passion for the process.

Take very good care of them and they'll last seemingly forever.

Tuc

When new bikes went away from steel, I made complaints about build quality - "sloppy looking" aluminum welds, glued plastics, squeaking bottom brackets, and doubted their durability but now I just say they look ugly to me, which is really how I felt all along. Like the other posters at CV, I make my choices on what appeals to me and it makes me happy. As a relatively cheap hobby, old bikes and good friends to ride with is a decent way to get along in life.

So I see you have a tough market in used bikes there, they use them without much maintenance until they are worn out. I suggest - set aside your budgeted amount of money, KNOW your exact size you need to feel comfortable on the bike, and keep looking for a while for that deal. It is winter there now, you have plenty of time to find it, and make sure it fits! It might have some surface rust, stay away from the really ancient ones but look for the one someone who could afford it bought in the late 80's and never rode it. Time is on your side, look at estate sales, pawn shops, open markets and tell everyone you know that you are looking for a beautiful, but old bike in great condition.

jimmuller 

Some of what your friends told you is true. For example, an old hub uses a freewheel, a modern hub uses a cassette, and you can't install a cassette on an old hub. However a 6 works quite well.

Whether you can keep up depends on the rider, not so much the bike or gears. More gears means they can be closer together, which lets you fine-tune the gearing. But the difference between 6 and 8 isn't really so much that you can't live with 6. Some of us put down a lot of miles with just 5.

As for old bikes wearing out, well, I still ride a bike I bought 40 years ago. Components wear out but they can all be replaced.

Welcome to Bike Forums!

Elev12k

"When some part gets broken, there is no new/modern replacement that can fit those antique frames" Some even say there is a risk that they are rusty from the inside.


On the 1st point: buy used or NOS parts. Maybe not available on every corner of the street in Serbia, but fortunately there exist internet. Prices normally much lower than modern parts. On the 2nd point: that is bogus. It rarely happens a frame rusts through and faillure will never be catastrophic -like with carbon could happen.

Then, they also mention some cons like:
- they use old 6-7s threaded rear hub and freewheel, modern bikes use newer hubs and cassettes (8s+)

That is is part of the reason why old bikes are more reliable.

- fork cups/headset (?), they (threads) get loosen (eaten) after some time so you have to tighten them all the time

That is not true. Headsets can get 'indexed', so use a quality grease and fit loose balls instead of balls in a ring. Original replacement headset are widely available on the web, but new headsets in various qualities (Tange Levin to Chris King) fit too.

- bottom brackets (that piece where you attach cranks and pedals to), when its used up, good luck finding replacement

When properly maintained a BB lasts very long. Original replacements available through internet, but many modern square taper bottom brackets work too. Much cheaper than fancy modern designs btw.

- steel wheels, more weight & lower braking power than aluminium, especially when its raining

I've no classics with steel rims, so I can't comment on that.

- no STI's

Shifters on the downtube is more reliable and easier to do maintain, but STI is percieved as more comfortable by many. It is up to you.

In general old bikes use more 'real' materials, like steel. I like the qualities of steel. One of them is that steel has proven to be very durable and faillures will never be catastophic. Bearings are often not so well sealed on old components, but still many decades old bottom bracket and hubs I felt run more smooth than their modern counterparts right out the box. Maintain them properly. Technology is more simple on old bikes, but what is not on it, can also not fail. The racing bicycle from, say, mid 80s is more aimed at enhancing performance through very rapid innovation. Add up to that also from a commercial point of view it is more interesting to let people replace their stuff every year or couple of years. Being not a pro I feel I am better served with classic bikes.

Marezz

@mickey85 I wouldnt dare to bend the rear fork because Im afraid it wouldnt be the same afterwards (reliable etc).
@Elev12k Im afraid that buying parts from internet (ebay etc) is not an option, because shipping often costs half of the items price or sometimes even more than items price. Unfortunately Im bound to buy modern parts when old ones are broken and need replacement

Scratch that last part, it seems that market here is not so hopeless, I looked a bit and found some nice Campy and Shimano vintage parts for sale Damn, that Shimano 600 Arabesque group looks so good!
Now that I think of it, my buddy has Tiagra 4600 8s rear hub and HG50 8s cassette on his vintage F. Moser. Does that mean its possible to have 8s cassette and hub without bending the frame?