Divebrian

I've decided I'm going to do Masters Track Nationals again and think a coach may help my training....or keep it on track and keep me from doing a bunch of useless mileage. I live in the Clearwater, FL area and train at the Brian Piccolo Velodrome in Ft Lauderdale. Are you guys using coaches local to you or do you use a remote one via internet/phone interactions? What is the current going rate and what should one expect in return for the money?

Don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm a large, muscular guy built more like a linebacker, not a small, 165 lb guy, so looking for someone that has experience with my body type, style of riding and training needs. I've been an athlete all my life, so I have my diet and nutrition needs down, just need someone to help tailor the workout aspect. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

carleton

A few random thoughts from a guy who has had local and remote coaches and has coached a bit himself:

Although track racing seems "simple enough" to roadies, I would suggest that you find a coach that specializes in track racing. Not just a roadie coach who will give you similar road workouts and hope that they get you fit for the track. There are LOTS of road coaches who have ridden a little track and figure that what they'll teach you will work. They aren't 100% wrong, but you are the customer and that same money could go towards a coach that is dedicated to track racing.

This goes without saying but, all things being equal, a local coach will be better because (s)he can see your strengths and weaknesses firsthand as well as monitor your progress and make adjustments. You won't know that you made a bone-headed move that cost you the win in that 10-lap scratch race because you don't know what you don't know.

Ever see a pro athlete sponsor a kids sports clinic like say a Michael Jordan basketball camp or a John Elway football camp? These guys don't say anything that the kids' coaches haven't already told them. So, even though these guys are experts and the best in their sports, the athletes don't need the highest level of coaching yet. They either need basic or intermediate training. The same goes for track racing. Evaluate the level of guidance that you need and don't over-pay for it. Most rank beginners will respond tremendously to any sort of regular training, like simply racing every week, casually lifting weights, cross-training with another sport. You don't need specialized coaching to fly through the beginner ranks.

Some coaches are better than others. Ask around and see which ones have their athletes improve under their guidance.

Some coaches are d*cks. If you are OK with that and you respond to that kind of coaching, then cool. Again, ask around.

Some coaches copy/paste the same workouts every week (with a little nudge here or there) for 9 months. Do you need to pay 9X the monthly rate for that? Others will have a clear and progressive annual plan around the big events that you want to target. Ask around.

If you plan on being a national or international level Masters racer over the course of a few years, I'd suggest paying close attention to the training plans and coaching that you buy. Ask a lot of questions. Read books on "periodization" and whatnot. Eventually after a couple of seasons you could be able to coach yourself. Some people aren't into that and they'd rather someone figure it out for them (like taxes, hahaha) and that's OK, too.

Learn to listen to your body:
- Differentiate Pain and Injury
- Recognize overtraining
- Recognize how your training responds to the effects of "life" (work, marriage, kids, other activities)

Rule #1 to be Successful in Masters Track Racing: Don't Be Fat. It's really hard to make it into the top 25% if you are overweight. Losing that weight would do more for you than adding watts or any expensive bike equipment.

This is the right time to engage a coach. Ideally it would have been in October or November, but this isn't bad. You still have like 6 months til the big events start and maybe 8 until Nationals.

It's gonna take take a significant number of hours per week. Here is a poll and thread on the subject.

Rates:
I've paid or seen between $100 and $700/month. $100 was a local pro roadie looking to make a few extra bucks on the side. His training program was simply, "Sunday, go ride for 4 hours. Tuesday, do a group ride..." The $700 I saw was for an international level coach who had coached multiple national teams and Olympic medalists. I think the sweet spot is somewhere between $200-350/month depending on what you get of course.

There are old school and new school techniques out there. I'd look for a coach that's into new school techniques (data analysis, big gearing, strength training, etc...). But the absolute best coach is the one who asks you good questions, listens, and adjusts the program based on your honest responses.

Remote coaching can work. I did it with success with 2 coaches.

carleton

Also:

Having a coach as a beginner really freaking helps. I (also a lifelong athlete) was on my own plan for my first few months then I hired a local coach.

I did more in my first Saturday and Sunday training with him than I was doing all week on my own program. And my volume and intensity went up linearly from there for quite some time.

It's the same experience that a person my experience when casually lifting weights (a little of this, a little of that, in the apt gym...) then lifting on a regimented program.

Velocirapture

+1 on everything said above.

Regarding online vs in the flesh coaches, there is a subtle yet very beneficial side to having a coach that can actually watch you train (track) occasionally. Especially if they are in tune with their athletes. They can tweak your position, watch your race-approach, and see real-time how you are experiencing the current effort. Data is incredible (if they are analyzing it properly - if you're going to pay for that level of it) but doesn't ever give the full picture.

Of course - depends on the coach! And certainly nothing wrong with an online coach who's not just using the same programme with small tweaks for all their athletes.

queerpunk

Simply put:
If you're looking for somebody to write you a plan and analyze your data, remote is fine.
If you're looking for somebody to call splits, help you with technique, positioning, and race tactics, then local would be helpful.

Rates tend to be around $200/mo and up, and one usually gets a monthly plan, weekly review; some coaches have high volumes and really limit how much back and forth (email/calls) they can accommodate.

carleton

One thing that can help is joining a club that's active at the track. You can still have a coach (local or online) and be a part of the club. When you are part of the club you'll receive helpful tips every track day along the way.

This can sometimes contradict what your coach may tell you, but generally it's a good thing. Especially when it comes to race tactics. When it does contridict your coaching, just say, "That's a good idea, but I'm gonna follow the program I'm paying for and see where it takes me..."

Divebrian

I'm not a complete track newbie and although I have been away for a few years, I did go to nationals previously, so I am ahead of the curve in that respect. Just thought the goal of going to Nationals was a great way to come back and have fun doing what most others can't do at 50. As far as dropping weight, my plan is to be 215-220 lb range for Nationals and at that weight I'll be looking more like I'm entering a body building contest than a cycling event. I'm currently weighing in at 240 lb with about 11% body fat with a 36" waist, 52" chest and 18.5" neck. At 215-220 lbs, I'll be hanging around a 5% body fat which is the lowest I can hold and still perform optimally.....any lower than that and I start to get tired quickly, takes longer to recover, etc. I'm not looking for a coach to get me to the top step of the podium on the national or world stage as I know that will never happen, but someone that can help me structure workouts for my body type and get the most out of my training. With my size, I know I won't be in the top 3, but I can have hopes of cracking the top 5 or 6.

carleton

In that case, remote coaching is definitely an option. That really opens up your options in terms of coaches.

Are you leaning more towards sprint, endurance, or all-around riding?

queerpunk

A couple more thoughts. For context, I recently chose a coach. Here's why I chose who I chose:

1. I saw a track record with other athletes
2. He knows track bikes, track training, and track racing
3. Not only does he know that, but he knows the fields I race in: the races, the demands, the competition.
4. Excellent, smart, thoughtful dude.

He's remote, but we'll have plenty of opportunities to see each other before and during the season.

chriskmurray

I am still fairly new to this track stuff and I have been working with Geoffrey Fryer as my coach and I have seen some really big improvements all the way around and he has been incredibly patient with me asking a ton of questions and seems to genuinly enjoy getting people into the sport. He is a former elite track sprinter who was a Rio hopeful and now works at the Olympic Training Center Velodrome helping coordinate events so he know the track better than most. I can not say enough good about him as a coach. If you wanted to contact him his email is flyerfryer at gmail dot com

brawlo

I would say that's a bad mindset to be approaching this with. What actual part of your size do you think is the issue and what events are you aiming for. If it's sprint and the TT you're looking at, nothing you've put up here would suggest you don't have a podium chance purely due to your size. I know a guy that's heavier than you now that would be an excellent chance for a podium in his class, maybe even a win because it's masters and it always depends who turns up on the day!

Hermes

Price independent, I choose the program that is the most fun. For me, that is having a local coach at the velodrome with predetermined times when he is there. In many cases, it is the other athletes that show up for the session with whom I interact that offer the best training and racing.

For example, last Tuesday, I attended a session and after the warmup, I was paired with one of the pro sprinters. We were both in the same gear. He would lead out the efforts and my task was to chase. The coach was on the track with the stop watch providing feedback. We would jump from the 200 meter line for seated and standing efforts. So this guy creams me every time which is not surprising.

So my feedback was I need to be more snappy at the jump. However, each effort, I got better. I still got creamed but by less margin. So what was the other guys feedback. Hey, Hermes is closing on you and if he catches you, 100 pushups. Pretty funny.

So my acceleration on the home stretch was pretty good by the stopwatch but the race was over at the jump.

How can I not improve by mimicking and chasing one of the top racers in the sport and then getting feedback? I hit some of my best power numbers and cadence and they came in the last efforts. How does an internet based coach set this situation up? YMMV.

Hermes

The other fun and interesting way to train at the track is motor pacing. Motor work is some of the most fun one can have at the track. Drills using the motor keep the pace high and the training interesting. Plus if one is a sprinter, the motor can be used to bring the racer up to speed and launch the effort. Many local coaches at the track are certified motor operators and offer motor work as part of the workout. An internet coach cannot sell what he does not have.

carleton

Yeah, that's the benefit of local coaching and local coaching groups. Usually the coach will have you guys doing stuff together.

When I was being coached remotely, I'd get invited to participate in drills and I'd have to say, "Sorry, but I'm on a different program." and have to sit out

Hermes

Not to pee in someones livelihood Cheerio bowl but....to me, as a lifelong athlete competing in many sports over a span of decades, a coach is someone who is present and inspires me in real time to greatness that I cannot achieve on my own. It may be semantics but I would call people who prepare internet workout plans: Planners not coaches.

Also, feedback a week later is much different from real time feedback.

And working out with a coaching group does not necessarily mean drills with a partner or partners. It may be something as simple as flying kilos or better yet, motor kilos with a 750 windup and the last 250 on your own while the coach is next to you on the motor offering encouragement.

carleton

You aren't wrong.

Look at it this way:

Time trials make up about 1/2 of the events at Elite, Masters, or any World level event. The key to doing well in time trials is training and fitness more so than what nuances one may learn via individual attention from someone watching.

Race acumen is a mix of in-person coaching, experience, and instinct (an extension of experience).

I don't know much about training for mass start or endurance events. But, when an athlete first branches off into being a "sprinter", the catch-all program is: Train for the Kilo.

So much of Kilo training is useful in the other sprint disciplines:

- The Kilo start is useful in match sprinting and team sprint (Man 1)
- The Kilo top speed is useful in the flying 200, match sprinting, keirin, and team sprint (Man 2)
- The Kilo speed-endurance is useful in keirin and Team Sprint (Man 3)

This is why Kilo specialists (Hoy, Pervis, etc...) did well in all of the other Sprint events.

I said all of that to say this: The fitness program is key (for sprinting, at least). Because if you are faster than everyone, you can simply stomp on the gas pedal ride your way out of a boneheaded move. I've seen this happen at masters nationals several times. So, if you can get a fitness program via email/phone (that is tailored to you) that is better than what a local coach can make for you, that may be the best move. Especially if you are an experienced racer.

I've been matched up against several smart sprinters who got the better of me with their wits. And I beat a lot of them with speed