2old

CA and more than half of the US defines these as bicycles BY LAW, and some other states are even less stringent, so whine all you want, they're here to stay for now. That being said, the punks that infest some of the sidewalks and trails that I frequent should be fined and their illegal vehicles impounded, but, unfortunately, policing is minimal at best.

_ForceD_

I think you’re right about this. I already know of one ‘eBike Repair Shop” in the next town. A comparison might be golf cars. Where I live in southeastern New England not many people use them. Ido see a few here and there in larger subdivisions. But as far as getting them repaired…I don’t know where those people take them. But I also snowbird in SE Florida where golf cars are abundant (I don’t have one). And, I’ve noticed there are ample “golf car” repair shops around down there. — Dan

indyfabz

+2. I see a good number of golf carts while touring, especially in campgrounds. They are prevalent enough that some campgrounds have adopted rules governing their use. I’ve seen a few places that will even rent them to you during your stay. I remember being in one place, possibly the Missoula KOA, and seeing several of them parked outside the cafe during the evening ice cream social. Because who wants to walk the equivalent of a couple of city blocks for a sundae?

Steel Charlie

Cyclists complaining about e-bikers violating traffic laws is really funny !

3alarmer 

Moped Laws: Europe

...AFAIK, both mopeds and gas powered scooters are regulated by the motor vehicle authorities, and subject to licensing, some additional fees for road use, and the operators are restricted in certain ways (minimum age, for example). Even in Naples, where Vespa is ubiquitous, and the roads are in a constant state of chaos, this was true. And the use of them is generally only accepted on the roadways, along with all the other motorized traffic. Often there are limits on overall engine displacement (thus power), at which point they become motorcycles for purposes of traffic laws. What am I missing here ?

Build them, buy them, and ride them, regulated in the same ways as mopeds, and I'm happy for for you. You have discovered an alternate means of transportation that is cleaner and less energy intensive than a car. Vaya con Dios, and all that stuff.

3alarmer 

E-bikes show distinct pattern of severe injuries

Increased injury severity and hospitalization rates following crashes with e-bikes versus conventional bicycles: an observational cohort study from a regional level II trauma center in Switzerland

...I'm pretty sure that this is not my imagination, but these studies are limited to the injuries to users, at this point in time. So in that sense, everyone saying, "Just don't get one," has a valid point. It's new tech, and regulations on new tech always lag behind real world damages.

3alarmer 

...currently (at least where I live) these motorized vehicles legally share the same bicycle lanes and MUP's as bicycles. There appears to be no age limit on who can climb on board and ride one, and there is zero enforcement on excess speed, on places like the American river MUP. I don't find it unreasonable that the topic gains some traction in the bicycle community at large. I know I encounter a lot of them, and not all of the ones I encounter seem harmless to the community at large. I could say the same about some cyclists, I guess. They just have less mass and power to create havoc.

3alarmer 

...regulation always lags behind technology. When ICE cars first started replacing the horse and buggy, this was the case. Little has changed in the ensuing years.

...this implies that anyone expressing concern about the lack of regulation, and the time it will take to achieve it (and it's almost certainly coming), has an irrational fear. It's disappointing, coming from one so well grounded in reality.

ThermionicScott 

"Ride Around & Find Out"

squirtdad

the word throttle...... which makes it an electric motorcycle

I draw a large line between pedal assist with no throttle and anything with a throttle...which says you don't need to pedal.

I also see riding style differences between the riders,

people riding bike that don't need pedal assist tend to go a lot faster than they should on a MUP and equate power to right of way (at least on the los gatos creek trail ) never slowing for others

Pedal assist I don't see the same behavior

IMHO laws need to catch up....should be simple throttle and ability to move and start without pedaling = motorcycle and all the DMV regs for that should be followed

john m flores 

Interesting study but a couple of things to note:

1. Small sample size; just 27 ebikes
2. Sample was taken back in 2017/2018, which seems like forever ago in a rapidly-evolving field
3. Ebikers in the study were on average 15+ years older than the conventional bikers

Something I'd like to see in studies like this is the riding experience and proficiency of the subjects. The impression that I get is that many ebikers are older and less experienced and proficient than recreational cyclists, particularly the ones so engaged with the activity that they participate in forums like this one.

Rider proficiency is missing from many of these conversations. Put members of this forum on ebikes and they'll likely be safer than your average ebike owner and likely no more at risk than riding their normal bikes because of their proficiency.

I'd like to see more ebike training, something akin to the Motorcycle Safety Foundation rider training courses for new motorcycle riders.

Bald Paul

Be careful what you wish for.

3alarmer 

...it's new tech. There will be a dearth of information on injury and safety statistics for years, because it's new tech.
Yes, the initial studies will have small sample sizes. It's a very large world wide experiment, at this point. The statistics will roll in gradually, but they won't roll in at all unless we decide to codify them.

A lot of the studies now are just compilations of injuries from all the electric wheeled devices, inclusive of scooters, skateboards, bikes, etc. And I'm not aware of any that focus on the numbers of collisions/accidents that can be causally attributed to the riders of them. Becuase they are considered bicycles, they escape a lot of the accident and injury documentation you'd get with licensed vehicle misuse.

Yes, rider proficiency is a huge factor. Again, that's where regulation plays a part. We don't let people drive cars or ride motorcycles without demonstrated proficiency. But anyone with the cash to buy one can walk in tomorrow, but the most powerful, throttle regulated e-bike in the store, and ride it home. If they feel so inclined, and they live here in California, they can take a short cut on the available sidewalk, if traffic gets in the way. But yes, injury studies like this are problematic at this point, because of the novel nature of the problem.

I've even seen one study comparing leg ortho injuries between bikes, e-bikes, and motorcycles. The good news is that, apparently, most e-bike limb fractures are to the lower portion of the extremity.

Camilo

Very nice. Calling me "small" and claiming that my critique of throttled ebikes (not pedal assist) and the way ebike regulations are going as "irrational hate". Phew. Nice. I bet you're a real charmer. And maybe you could actually address what I've written and maybe engage in rational discussion, not disparaging words.

rsbob 

Here you go. It exists: Brake and Turn signals

Camilo

Somewhere I think I wrote about Mopeds - and how, at least where I live, are considered motorcycles.

I have absolutely nothing against pedal assist ebikes and will happily get one when it suits my lifestyle and abilities. Except that I think the regulations on speed, vis-a-vis being allowed on MUPs, etc, is a little liberal. But pedal-assisted bikes are bicycles. Ebikes that have a throttle that doesn't require pedaling at all, even if they have pedals, to me, have the same status as mopeds, that is, are motorcycles.

PeteHski

Maybe they have a heart condition? Maybe their local riding terrain is very hilly and they don’t weigh 65 kg? Maybe they just like to go a little faster and ride longer loops? Maybe they want to keep up with faster riding friends? There are lots of reasons and many different types of e-bike.

3alarmer 

...so much to unpack here. For the record, I don't feel especially ashamed, for questioning the current regulatory approach as inadequate to the technology and market share. That they are here, and not going anywhere is, I suppose, exactly my point. Too much coffee on a Sunday morning ? This response seems to be completely over the top.

Perhaps you'd like to take a few deep breaths, and try again ?

plumberroy

My big question was that most of our MUP trails say no motors of any kind . Caught up with a park ranger in a local park and ask . He said in this county only type 1 e-bikes are allowed , if it has a throttle so it can move without peddling it's not allowed on the trails.

wolfchild

Those things must be very hard if not impossible to pedal without a motor assist. The seat height is pretty low and not adjustable., you would kill your knees trying to pedal one of those.

3alarmer 

...there were, at last count, four rangers (at any given time) to patrol the entire 32 mile length of the American river parkway and bike trail. Those rangers spend the majority of their time trying to find reasonable solutions to the various issues that arise with homelessness and camping here. So there is zero time and attention left for e-bikes. "Motorized" vehicles have been prohibited for years on that parkway. But the simple expedient of calling them "bicycles", has led to a proliferation of them in that environment.

I guess it's proof that words have great power to alter our perception of reality.
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.
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burnthesheep

The problem that’s getting worse locally is this:

when you have to make the power yourself you largely have worked over time to have the skills to handle your bike at the speed you are pedaling it. The ebike throttle tools buy and ride and show zero wits for side of a trail to be on, they weave, in general….they ride ebikes like people drive cars that kill cyclists. Zero regard for others.

Zero issue with a majority pedal power commuter ebike. Zero. Issue here are the “buy and hero ride” tools infesting the area and giving good honest ebike folks a bad name that don’t deserve the bad name.

It started with the gas powered minibike idiots and feel with cheapo electric moped scooter bike things it’s moved to that.

Issue that makes me mad is that it also gives folks of any age or ability on pedal bikes a bad name also as walkers or joggers don’t see the difference then get the ears of local authorities.

rsbob 

You forgot to mention the point about one manufacturer that purposefully engineered their bikes’ speed governors to be easily modified allowing the bikes to achieve 70 MPH.


I like the fact that people are getting outdoors and getting some exercise on pedal-assist bikes, but many have limited skills or appropriate MUP skills which creates danger for all. Then there are the folks on these 50+ lb fat tire behemoth “bikes” cruising along at 20+ MPH on crowded paths, which scare me to death. As a result, other than walking my dog, I try to stay off them. I also believe that all e-bikes that have no pedal-assist or e-bikes that can go faster than 20 MPH should require some form of licensing so that people are forced to learn the rules of the road and trail. (True factoid: My wife has a pedal-assist Specialized e-bike speed limited to 20 MPH - but then she is also a seasoned ‘acoustic’ cyclist, so I have zero issue with people using the bikes responsibly.)

3alarmer 

...I probably missed mentioning a lot of stuff, like this guy. "Balance Bikes"...


LeGrand Crewse, a co-founder and the chief executive of Super73, which aims to sell 25,000 e-bikes this year. Credit...Alisha Jucevic for The New York Times

shelbyfv

If I were to come up with regulations for unlicensed motorbikes, I'd focus on top speed. Most cyclists don't average higher than low 20s, if that. Seems a more reasonable limit than the current 30 mph. All this talk of throttles and pedals is just irrelevant distraction. Why should anyone care if the motor is engaged by hand or foot? Same goes for the type of motor. Gas, electric, does it matter? Regulations are largely written by industry lobbyists and a speed half again what can be achieved w/o a motor may help sell a product but may not be the best way to have these continue to be regarded as similar to pedal bikes.