davesax36

How much time do you really spend above 25mph getting that aero benefit. This is really a question for when you're riding alone or in a small group. My solo rides are averaging 18-19 mph right now (mostly flat, but with north texas wind). I'm getting the upgraditis itch and am wondering if dropping $5-$800 is gonna give me a really noticeable improvement in feel/speed/placebo effect.

Farby

You won't notice much of a difference/improvement. But you will look cooler.

X-LinkedRider

Best Placebo affect you can get! Never under-estimate the power of confidence.

Quel

You are getting the aero benefit regardless of your speed. It's small enough that it's somewhat tough to "feel" though. You're talking a 2% change.

yrodriguez317

+1

AngryScientist 

good luck finding "deep" wheels with that budget that dont weigh as much as a boat anchor.

ColorChange

Dave, your supposition that you don't get any aero benefit below 25 mph is false. The aero benefits increase by the square of the speed, so the faster, the greater the benefit true, but you will notice an aero benefit above about 20 mph. On my training ride yesterday (Illinois, some tiny hills), I spent just under 20% of the time above 24 mph.

The benefits here are real, and noticeable. So much so, that the people on my group rides joked about making a maximum 30mm deep dish "law" as they didn't like my coasting past them on downhills where they are pedaling. I was so pleased with my 404's that I changed to 808's this year.

In the interest of full disclosure, they do look cool, and sound even better. On the downside, the 808's do make it a little trickier riding in wind/gusts. Below 25 or so mph it's not to bad, but above 30 or stronger gusts, if I'm riding with anyone else, I'll usually go to my training wheels. I ride the 808's whenever I can because they are tubies and ride so nice.

ColorChange

+1

ancker

I think there's a lot to say for the placebo effect. I know it did wonders for me.

Here's my rationale. I don't spend a whole lot of time above 25mph solo, but in a group we'll sit around 28-30mph for decent stretches of time. While I'm definitely taking advantage of the draft, it's still hard to maintain that pace for me. Since I switched to my 58mm wheels I feel like it's a tiny bit easier to hold on to that pace. I still eventually get spit out the back if we stay at 25+ for too long, but with the deeper wheels I feel like I'm able to stick around a little longer. In theory, the longer I stay in the group, the better workout I get, which in turn increases fitness, which in turn lets me stay in the group longer, etc, etc, etc.

Sure non-aero wheels could do the same thing, but they don't do much to keep me in the pack at those higher speeds which means (all things being equal) I wouldn't last as long to start out with, meaning I'd have much more ground to gain while trying to stay with the pack for the whole ride.

Disclaimer: I understand this is all theoretical thinking and might not prove true in practice. But I don't care. I feel like I'm able to hold higher speeds a little better with these wheels on. Feeling faster makes me want to get out and ride more/longer/harder which improves fitness, which makes me faster.

So (Aero = confidence = more/harder training = fitness = speed)

VA_Esquire

+1

The closest you'll find is the Boyd 38mm Tubulars.

gregf83 

If you're going to continue riding solo it's kind of pointless to upgrade to deeper wheels. You won't 'feel' a difference although you should be able to measure it if you're careful enough. It will likely be less than .5MPH though.

FactVord

Rear disc wheel all the way if you have the powa

giantcfr1

You are going to love it when a decent cross wind hits you. That's why I flick passed mine (50mm deep) off to some poor bastard. As mentioned...you'll look great though.

Yaniel

I didn't notice any benefit when I got my aero wheels, but the bike did look cooler which made me want to push a little harder. I didn't get them to make me faster though, I just like how they look.

AzTallRider

Great post, and matches my thoughts that anything which makes it easier for me to stick with a challenging group, or reduces my effort to do so, is a good thing.

Seattle Forrest

I've tried a few times, and Zipp 303 (older, non-Firecrest) wheels feel easier to turn than Nuvations. It's not huge, but it's noticeable. I don't think it's rim weight, because they're easier to spin up, but they're also easier to keep turning.

shokhead

Isn't any head wind and the aero wheels will help?
BTW, what about the Eastons EA90 SLX?

gregf83 

Likely placebo. Given that environmental conditions are virtually never the same it would be very difficult to actually 'feel' a difference that you could attribute to wheels vs a 1MPH lower headwind. Maybe your riding conditions are different, but I always have wind to deal with so the power to speed relationship is always different.

chemicalbreeze

There was an interesting article on Bicycling.com where an MIT aerodynamics researcher spoke aerodynamics. Here is a quote about aero wheels.

"Most people don't realize that a nonaero helmet creates four times the drag of a nonaero wheelset. So you can spend two thousand dollars on a wheelset, or spend two hundred on a helmet and be faster. How you put your race number on matters more than having an aero wheel; today, we glued on our numbers to get them to fit flatter. Then there's water bottle placement: On a round-tubed frame, having a bottle on your seat tube is more aerodynamic than not having one at all, and it's much more aero than putting it on the down tube. And wearing gloves in a time trial will slow you down more than using a nonaero front wheel."

Here is the full article.

Grasschopper

One thing no one has really touched on is that if you are riding into a head wind your air speed is you actual speed plus the wind speed. So say your doing 10 mph into a 20mph head wind...the air is going past your bike at 30 mph and those wheels (or anything else aero you are doing) are helping.

I'm no pro...or racer. I average 17-18 mph on 30-40 mile solo rides. For a time I had Soul S4.0 40mm alloy clinchers and for sure I felt a difference. I gave them to my father who races...he says he can tell the difference.

I just picked up a set of Reynolds DV3K from Bonktown for $865 shipped and can't wait to ride them.

AdelaaR

Placebo effect you will definately gain ... and an added bonus: whooshy sound!
Personally I average about 22-23 mph on my rides with my TT-bike lately ... that means I often ride 25+ mph and even 30+ on long downgrades.
For doing 18-19 it'll help ... but only a second or a bit more per kilometer ... if gaining a second or so per k is your goal: go for it.

AdelaaR

People coasting past other people on downhills are usually simply heavier or have a better position ... the wheels will only play a minor role.

Seattle Forrest

Maybe, but I'm not convinced. A set of Zipp 303s felt like less work to turn than a set of Madfibers, which are lighter and more expensive; both felt more than a little easier to roll than my stock wheels. If it's just the placebo, I'd expect the Zipps and Madfibers to be equal, or, maybe even for the MFs to seem better, as they cost more. But the way my legs ranked the amount of work I was doing matches up with how aerodynamic each set of wheels actually is ... Occam's razor suggests that the simplest reason for that isn't placebo.

Maybe there's been a 1 mph headwind while I've been on the lesser wheels, and it turned into a tailwind on the good wheels, but that's not very parsimonious. Especially on shorter test rides where I've done a few miles in one direction, then turned around and come back.

It might be that the benefits of highly aero wheels are so small at 20 to 25 mph that humans can't perceive them. My own personal, unscientific, anecdotal experience makes me doubt this idea, though.

AdelaaR

Unless you are double blind testing there is no way you can just trust your senses in such things, Seatle Forest.
It's like this with all things: wine tasting, music listening, wheelsets, .... people are convinced they know and feel differences and then in double blind tests they fail miserably.

Tunnelrat81

^Agreed^ I couldn't believe how many folks I was passing on the descents at the everest challenge this year with my 145 lbs, round spokes and shallow HED C2 rims. It's about profile and weight. If you can hover your chin over your stem, pull knees and elbows in, and be comfortable doing so, you can greatly increase your "coasting downhill" speed. If you're tall, skinny, flexible and relatively heavier ( 180-200), you have the added weight without the added profile, small bits of time lost on climbs can easily be brought back descending.

I ride with a guy who's around 6'5 or 6'6, weighs between 190 and 200, and I find myself struggling to even hold his draft on descents because he's just THAT much faster. If you drop back even at all, it's over and he's gone.

-Jeremy