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On Your Left - Humor

Old 12-19-21, 09:23 PM
  #76  
LV2TNDM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
The secret to a safe and courteous interaction is to slow to a minimal speed disparity as you approach. That's what I do. If I see ear buds, I very slowly ease around them. If I don't see buds, I say in a conversational tone "I am easing around YOUR left." Then I ease around and say something polite when I do. Kids always get complimented on their bike and dogs are often told they are good doggies.

This is very nice of you. But what you may be advocating here is just a bit much. Your approach seems to imply several things:

1) A pedestrian on a trail is the supreme trail user.

2) A pedestrian may choose to act as irresponsibly as s/he chooses.

3) The cyclist, must accommodate the pedestrian in as many ways as they see fit.

4) The cyclist, must simply accept endless delay when encountering other trail users.

5) The cyclist must accept any and all liability for anything that happens.

6) The cyclist is a nuisance and deserves no respect.


So in other words, I couldn't disagree more. This approach seems similar to the attitude some pedestrians have. That they have the prerogative to do anything they please. They erroneously think they have the right of way under any circumstances. This is, without a doubt, NOT the case. Several examples include walking against a red light. Walking on the freeway. Walking in un-sanctioned pedestrian areas, and into the path of cyclists!


CA VC states clearly, that even when crossing perfectly legally, a pedestrian must "show their intent to cross and give drivers the opportunity to stop." In other words, if a pedestrian on the sidewalk suddenly darts out into a legal, marked crosswalk and into the path of an oncoming vehicle, the pedestrian is at fault. If a driver has no idea you are going to cross, how can they know to stop? They can't. And they definitely cannot suspend the laws of physics! Thus, if a pedestrian does this, they are at fault for any injuries they incur, as well as injuries or damage to the other party. This is important because cyclists are often knocked off their bikes by pedestrians who suddenly walk from behind a parked truck or other concealment. They simply have ZERO right to do this. This has happened to me several times. Luckily I've always been able to avoid it by riding defensively and using my bell or horn. (This is also why cyclists should support quiet electric vehicles - they reinforce the need we're all taught since age two, to "Look before you cross!" I we allow certain groups to push for "loudifying" electric cars, we may find ourselves in a liability situation if OUR vehicles are too quite and we run someone over. Think about it.)


Reading this thread, I feel that perhaps it is time to outlaw impaired hearing in public. I could limit it to "only when one would expect to encounter other road/trail/sidewalk users." But this creates too much ambiguity. To walk in public with ears rendered useless to the outside world is simply irresponsible. That I, as a cyclist, would have to come to a screeching halt to SLOWLY creep past another trail user with ear pods in is simply stupid! So I, as the cyclist, must practice EXTREME CAUTION while the pedestrian may throw caution to the wind? No! Of course not. Everyone has the duty to behave with an appropriate level of responsibility. If you, as a pedestrian, do not wish to be "surprised and/or buzzed" by passing cyclists, then you should make yourself able to hear the bell of an oncoming bicycle.


I am pretty tired of encountering people who cannot hear my bell. So since they've clearly shown they don't value their own safety, why should I? I just ring my bell and fly on by. Sorry, but it's absurd that people would knowingly use a MUP with faster traffic and then render their ability to observe approaching faster traffic useless. Slow down? Why should I?


And expecting cyclists to "come to a crawl" for every pedestrian they encounter is just too much. My regular 20 mile road ride consists of a lot of MUP riding. And unfortunately, the pedestrians always seem to be attracted to the bike lane like moths to a flame, despite the fact that separate a pedestrian path exists right there!


No, pedestrians need to obey the law, common sense, and share the road, so to speak. Taking your approach only fills them with even more entitlement than they need! People who show respect for others are the ones deserving my respect.
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Old 12-20-21, 08:51 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by LV2TNDM View Post
Reading this thread, I feel that perhaps it is time to outlaw impaired hearing in public. I could limit it to "only when one would expect to encounter other road/trail/sidewalk users." But this creates too much ambiguity. To walk in public with ears rendered useless to the outside world is simply irresponsible. That I, as a cyclist, would have to come to a screeching halt to SLOWLY creep past another trail user with ear pods in is simply stupid! So I, as the cyclist, must practice EXTREME CAUTION while the pedestrian may throw caution to the wind? No! Of course not. Everyone has the duty to behave with an appropriate level of responsibility. If you, as a pedestrian, do not wish to be "surprised and/or buzzed" by passing cyclists, then you should make yourself able to hear the bell of an oncoming bicycle.


I am pretty tired of encountering people who cannot hear my bell. So since they've clearly shown they don't value their own safety, why should I? I just ring my bell and fly on by. Sorry, but it's absurd that people would knowingly use a MUP with faster traffic and then render their ability to observe approaching faster traffic useless. Slow down? Why should I?


And expecting cyclists to "come to a crawl" for every pedestrian they encounter is just too much. My regular 20 mile road ride consists of a lot of MUP riding. And unfortunately, the pedestrians always seem to be attracted to the bike lane like moths to a flame, despite the fact that separate a pedestrian path exists right there!


No, pedestrians need to obey the law, common sense, and share the road, so to speak. Taking your approach only fills them with even more entitlement than they need! People who show respect for others are the ones deserving my respect.
"Slow down why should I?"

Your rant sounds like you expect all pedestrians to move aside from their course on an MUP or sidewalk for any/every obnoxious bell ringing or yelling cyclist who doesn't want to "come to a crawl" in order to pass legally or even slow down in order to pass.

Perhaps where you live there are clearly marked separate lanes for pedestrians and hot shot cyclists who don't want to slow down on an MUP, that is not as common as you seem to think.

Your desire to "outlaw impaired hearing" for every pedestrian because you want them to be always prepared to get out of the way for the likes of obnoxious must-go-fast/cannot -slow-down cyclists on MUPs is not very admirable.
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Old 12-20-21, 10:42 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by LV2TNDM View Post
This is very nice of you. But what you may be advocating here is just a bit much. Your approach seems to imply several things:

1) A pedestrian on a trail is the supreme trail user.

2) A pedestrian may choose to act as irresponsibly as s/he chooses.

3) The cyclist, must accommodate the pedestrian in as many ways as they see fit.

4) The cyclist, must simply accept endless delay when encountering other trail users.

5) The cyclist must accept any and all liability for anything that happens.

6) The cyclist is a nuisance and deserves no respect.
You go on in your very long post to complain about pedestrians in bike only lanes. That's a very legitimate complaint there.

Most of us who ride MUPs do so in places where there aren't segregated bike lanes and pedestrian lanes, hence the name "Multiple Use Paths". On ALL of the ones I ride, there are signs that state that cyclists MUST yield to pedestrians. If we operate in that world, some diplomacy and tact is necessary if you intend to get anywhere. I regularly ride at 20 mph + on such paths, but I'm smart about how I do it.
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Old 12-20-21, 09:16 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by LV2TNDM View Post
...

Reading this thread, I feel that perhaps it is time to outlaw impaired hearing in public...

.
You have got to be kidding me! Thanks to the wonders of a TBI my hearing is a mess. I should not walk on the MUP? Maybe the solution is that everyone needs to use common courtesy?
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Old 12-21-21, 12:05 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie View Post
We were on our tandem with our granddaughter in her burley trailer with a blinky on it. just turned right and in maybe 200 feet is a bike path on the left. this silly goose in a yellow jersey "about all I could notice" yells on your right passes us then turns right in front of us to the left. no clue why he did not pass on the left it was open with no cars.
Interesting when one considers that passing on the right on a single lane in the direction of travel on a road is illegal. I've seen some real idiots riding on the rail-trails around here. Idiots who seem to think that the rail-trails are their own private TDF training grounds. I seen some of those idiots crash into a bicyclist or cause a bicyclist to crash. It really makes me wonder where their sense of entitlement comes from.

Cheers
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Old 12-21-21, 05:57 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR View Post
You have got to be kidding me! Thanks to the wonders of a TBI my hearing is a mess. I should not walk on the MUP? Maybe the solution is that everyone needs to use common courtesy?
We really can't know from external appearances whether pedestrians are hearing impaired, and even if we announce, we need to allow sufficient space between us on the pass.
I can see when people are wearing head phones and the vast majority I've seen on paths handle it very sensibly by sticking to the right side of the path. I can only guess that that's probably true of hearing impaired people generally, but of course that's not something I can observe.

I have seen people on busy Boston paths wearing signs saying "deaf", but I don't think anyone should be required to do that.
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Old 12-21-21, 08:11 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
We really can't know from external appearances whether pedestrians are hearing impaired, and even if we announce, we need to allow sufficient space between us on the pass.
I can see when people are wearing head phones and the vast majority I've seen on paths handle it very sensibly by sticking to the right side of the path. I can only guess that that's probably true of hearing impaired people generally, but of course that's not something I can observe.

I have seen people on busy Boston paths wearing signs saying "deaf", but I don't think anyone should be required to do that.
It used to be a bit easier to see if someone were wearing headphones... but now wireless ear buds can make that assessment difficult... and if someone is "rocking out" to their favorite tunes, it would quite easy for them to not hear all but the loudest "signal" from someone arriving on a bike.
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Old 12-21-21, 08:44 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Interesting when one considers that passing on the right on a single lane in the direction of travel on a road is illegal. I've seen some real idiots riding on the rail-trails around here. Idiots who seem to think that the rail-trails are their own private TDF training grounds. I seen some of those idiots crash into a bicyclist or cause a bicyclist to crash. It really makes me wonder where their sense of entitlement comes from.

Cheers
I bet he thought we would be turning left onto the bike path but who knows? that path has a very messy homeless camp on it and it was dark so I didn't to want to attempt it.
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Old 12-21-21, 09:54 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
It used to be a bit easier to see if someone were wearing headphones... but now wireless ear buds can make that assessment difficult... and if someone is "rocking out" to their favorite tunes, it would quite easy for them to not hear all but the loudest "signal" from someone arriving on a bike.

Doesn't really contradict my point, though, which is the vast majority of people who do wear headphones on the paths just stick to the right side of the path and don't cause problems. Your point just indicates there's even more of such people. We're going to notice the trouble makers more, so we're likely to overestimate how "dangerous" hearing impairment actually is.

Not being hearing impaired, I don't want to speak for hearing impaired people as that would be patronizing and disrespectful, but I found it really obnoxious and stupid that someone would suggest banning "hearing impaired" people from being in public. My main point was it's pretty obvious that hearing impaired people have strategies for ensuring their own safety, and we hearing people may not even observe that those effective strategies are occurring. Also (more importantly, perhaps), people with disabilities have a right to be there, and we as cyclists have to be ready to react appropriately when our assumptions that we're going to be heard are going to prove wrong. "I didn't know he was deaf so I close-passed him" is not going to be a defense, legally or morally.
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Old 12-30-21, 10:07 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Not everyone can hear or even reacts to the bike bell. So you have to prepare to use your secondary warning system.

Then you need a big, badazz skull bell. It's LOUD.
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Old 03-29-22, 08:02 PM
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I ride with a big clown-like horn on my rain bike. I honk at pedestrians when necessary, and the thing is so preposterous that no one is ever offended. Some day I'll have the balls to race a crit with that think on the handlebars.
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