Cleaning a chain prior to first wax bath: OMS + Methyl Hydrate VS Citrus + water
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If you look at Zero Friction’s data, their comments about KMC don’t seem to have any evidence backing them up. They have some KMC chains that perform better than average, some within the average, and some below. Since they don’t report variance, we really can’t tell if the below average KMC performance is significant or not.
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I think nothing wears faster on the average bike than the chain, unless you run disc brakes, so that and so many options as to how to maintain generate all of this interest and lots of speculation. After skimming the 4 pages and admitting I have too many bikes to keep good records I have always liked KMC chains and appreciate cyccommute for his commitment to safety despite the push back, he will make a difference in the bikeforum community.
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I have voiced the same thing before but no one has ever answered this.
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Because they don’t know what will happen to their product if some other material is added to it. It’s about control of the performance of their product. I would bet that they have never really tested the need for their elaborate cleaning scheme with regard to what effect it has on chain durability or the efficacy of their lubricant.
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Because they don’t know what will happen to their product if some other material is added to it. It’s about control of the performance of their product. I would bet that they have never really tested the need for their elaborate cleaning scheme with regard to what effect it has on chain durability or the efficacy of their lubricant.
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#81
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Yeah. It's frustrating to see them rule out all KMC chains, without presenting any data. And KMC makes a huge variety of chains from plain-jane to full-featured. Which ones did they have problem with? I run KMC chains on all my bikes so I have no way to compare for myself.
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Sorry, cyccommute, the two underlined portions seem to be contradictory. How does one control the performance of one's product without some testing regarding the effect on the efficacy of the lubricant? I understand your point that perhaps 50% of the cleanliness gives you 90% of the performance, but it would behoove the wax maker to point this out so it can sell more wax.
Their cleaning protocol probably sprung fully formed from their minds without any testing of the needs of their steps. The most rudimentary tests would be to remove steps, test the chain after lubrication, remove (or replace) another step, test, etc. They just thought up a cleaning method and went with it. They really have no idea if it’s needed or not.
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ZFC has a VERY bad habit of contaminating test data with speculation and assumptions, all of it extremely time consuming to sort out on account of the writers longwinded and convoluted writing style. Its not obvious what KMC chain he is referring to, but KMC have many different chains with various coatings or no coating at all. The cheapest X10s, that Ive been running for some time, looks completely uncoated and will rust in no time, if left wet and unlubed. They hot wax just fine.
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I did the same roughly 25 years ago. I, however, don’t use hot wax. I use solvent wax which is just as clean and much less fuss. Prior to that I was using Phil Wood Tenacious Oil which is second only to motor oil in messiness.
Solvent wax, by the way, doesn’t need to be reapplied as often as many people think. I get around 700 miles between applications. Even when touring in the eastern US, I didn’t have to apply more often than 700 miles. I did a 1500 mile tour around Lake Erie and applied it at the beginning of the tour, in the middle (after a long rainy day) and at the end.
Solvent wax, by the way, doesn’t need to be reapplied as often as many people think. I get around 700 miles between applications. Even when touring in the eastern US, I didn’t have to apply more often than 700 miles. I did a 1500 mile tour around Lake Erie and applied it at the beginning of the tour, in the middle (after a long rainy day) and at the end.
I hot wax my chains with a mixture (~50:50) of paraffin and paraffin oil and am very happy with the results. The YT'er that I got into the process as a result of his videos (Oz Cycle) has a tip for touch-up application by mixing in another part of Xylene which of course dissolves the mixture and then evaporates after application. I haven't yet done this but am considering it for the inevitable 1st time I'm long from home and need to apply "something".
Would that 3-part mixture be considered a "solvent wax"?
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"Solvent wax"...
I hot wax my chains with a mixture (~50:50) of paraffin and paraffin oil and am very happy with the results. The YT'er that I got into the process as a result of his videos (Oz Cycle) has a tip for touch-up application by mixing in another part of Xylene which of course dissolves the mixture and then evaporates after application. I haven't yet done this but am considering it for the inevitable 1st time I'm long from home and need to apply "something".
Would that 3-part mixture be considered a "solvent wax"?
I hot wax my chains with a mixture (~50:50) of paraffin and paraffin oil and am very happy with the results. The YT'er that I got into the process as a result of his videos (Oz Cycle) has a tip for touch-up application by mixing in another part of Xylene which of course dissolves the mixture and then evaporates after application. I haven't yet done this but am considering it for the inevitable 1st time I'm long from home and need to apply "something".
Would that 3-part mixture be considered a "solvent wax"?
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Yes, the touch up solution would be “solvent wax”. But making your own really isn’t worth the effort. Just buy White Lightning, Rock ‘n’ Roll, etc. There are some water based waxes out there that are a bit different in that they wouldn’t be good for a chain that has been previously waxed. Different materials.
I have an inkling that you have previously answered this question and the answer was "No", which then prompts me to ask if you are not curious to test out one of the more well known and hyped waxes?
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Have you had any experience with Squirt wax and if so, what were your impressions?
I have an inkling that you have previously answered this question and the answer was "No", which then prompts me to ask if you are not curious to test out one of the more well known and hyped waxes?
I have an inkling that you have previously answered this question and the answer was "No", which then prompts me to ask if you are not curious to test out one of the more well known and hyped waxes?
I may get around to trying Squirt but I’m not in a hurry.
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I understand the concept of mixing paraffin oil into paraffin wax for immersion waxing to improve the pliability and longevity of the wax, but what is the minimum amount of paraffin oil to use to achieve this without losing the cleanliness advantage? Currently, I am using Gulf paraffin wax on its own, and may switch to Silca after I perfected my technique. An Ultegra chain with Gulf wax does get more chattery after two rides (50-70 miles) even though many state that a waxed chain should be good for at least 200 miles in dry weather.
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I have used Rock N Roll Blue sparingly (i.e., a drop per roller then wipe) before and found that an Ultegra chain thus lubricated still gets dirty within 30 minutes of riding. That is why I went to immersion wax. Would using Rock N Roll as a touch up result in the same mess?
I understand the concept of mixing paraffin oil into paraffin wax for immersion waxing to improve the pliability and longevity of the wax, but what is the minimum amount of paraffin oil to use to achieve this without losing the cleanliness advantage? Currently, I am using Gulf paraffin wax on its own, and may switch to Silca after I perfected my technique. An Ultegra chain with Gulf wax does get more chattery after two rides (50-70 miles) even though many state that a waxed chain should be good for at least 200 miles in dry weather.
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I have. It is a mixture of paraffin, slack wax (a paraffin precursor) and water. It results in a softer wax for the chain. I used it for awhile, but I did notice it tends to ball up and form globs that adhere to the drivetrain. If I were on tour or something like that, or I wasn't able to remove the chain easily, I would use it, but at home, just melting paraffin is cleaner and easier.
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No.
I use a paraffin-based lamp oil. Here (Canada) lamp oil is generally one of two types; paraffin based or kerosene based.
My mixture is paraffin wax (like for canning, candles, etc) and paraffin-based lamp oil
From this site (https://www.dhr.nl/dhr-decorative/blogs/what-oil-use):
I use a paraffin-based lamp oil. Here (Canada) lamp oil is generally one of two types; paraffin based or kerosene based.
My mixture is paraffin wax (like for canning, candles, etc) and paraffin-based lamp oil
From this site (https://www.dhr.nl/dhr-decorative/blogs/what-oil-use):
Lamp oil on the other hand has two types, one is a kerosene based, the other is a paraffin based lamp oil. The kerosene based lamp oil can be purified or not. The purified kerosene can be used in- and outdoors, the non purified kerosene is only suitable to use outdoors, for example in garden torches. Because of the toxic gasses it releases when burning the impurities in the kerosene. The paraffin based lamp oil is not advised by DHR. Paraffin, like kerosene, is an oil distillate. But paraffin isn’t very much liquid. To make it into an oil, solvents are added to make it more liquid.
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“England and America. Two nations separated by a common language.”
In the UK, “paraffin” is the common name for kerosene. To further muddy the waters, chemists sometimes refer to alkanes as “paraffins”. To even further muddy the waters, chemists (and others) also refer to alkanes with high molecular weight which are solid as paraffin, wax, and paraffin wax. And, if that wasn’t enough to make the waters almost solid mud, we refer to mineral oil (what is in baby oil) as paraffin oil. And there is an oil used for lamps that can be called “paraffin oil”. Jeeze, we are confusing.
In this context, however, “paraffin oil” most likely refers to either mineral oil or, perhaps, lamp oil. Both have higher molecular weights than kerosene. If I were doing this, I’d probably use mineral oil which is a little more viscous* than lamp oil. I might even use Vaseline which is a soft wax rather than a liquid.
*To confuse things even further, “mineral oil” is available in a very wide variety of viscosities from something similar to water (lamp oil) to something more like maple syrup (baby oil) to something resembling honey and even oils thicker than that.
In the UK, “paraffin” is the common name for kerosene. To further muddy the waters, chemists sometimes refer to alkanes as “paraffins”. To even further muddy the waters, chemists (and others) also refer to alkanes with high molecular weight which are solid as paraffin, wax, and paraffin wax. And, if that wasn’t enough to make the waters almost solid mud, we refer to mineral oil (what is in baby oil) as paraffin oil. And there is an oil used for lamps that can be called “paraffin oil”. Jeeze, we are confusing.
In this context, however, “paraffin oil” most likely refers to either mineral oil or, perhaps, lamp oil. Both have higher molecular weights than kerosene. If I were doing this, I’d probably use mineral oil which is a little more viscous* than lamp oil. I might even use Vaseline which is a soft wax rather than a liquid.
*To confuse things even further, “mineral oil” is available in a very wide variety of viscosities from something similar to water (lamp oil) to something more like maple syrup (baby oil) to something resembling honey and even oils thicker than that.
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Hmmm - now I have to experiment with mineral oil and Vaseline...
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“England and America. Two nations separated by a common language.”
In the UK, “paraffin” is the common name for kerosene. To further muddy the waters, chemists sometimes refer to alkanes as “paraffins”. To even further muddy the waters, chemists (and others) also refer to alkanes with high molecular weight which are solid as paraffin, wax, and paraffin wax. And, if that wasn’t enough to make the waters almost solid mud, we refer to mineral oil (what is in baby oil) as paraffin oil. And there is an oil used for lamps that can be called “paraffin oil”. Jeeze, we are confusing.
In this context, however, “paraffin oil” most likely refers to either mineral oil or, perhaps, lamp oil. Both have higher molecular weights than kerosene. If I were doing this, I’d probably use mineral oil which is a little more viscous* than lamp oil. I might even use Vaseline which is a soft wax rather than a liquid.
*To confuse things even further, “mineral oil” is available in a very wide variety of viscosities from something similar to water (lamp oil) to something more like maple syrup (baby oil) to something resembling honey and even oils thicker than that.
In the UK, “paraffin” is the common name for kerosene. To further muddy the waters, chemists sometimes refer to alkanes as “paraffins”. To even further muddy the waters, chemists (and others) also refer to alkanes with high molecular weight which are solid as paraffin, wax, and paraffin wax. And, if that wasn’t enough to make the waters almost solid mud, we refer to mineral oil (what is in baby oil) as paraffin oil. And there is an oil used for lamps that can be called “paraffin oil”. Jeeze, we are confusing.
In this context, however, “paraffin oil” most likely refers to either mineral oil or, perhaps, lamp oil. Both have higher molecular weights than kerosene. If I were doing this, I’d probably use mineral oil which is a little more viscous* than lamp oil. I might even use Vaseline which is a soft wax rather than a liquid.
*To confuse things even further, “mineral oil” is available in a very wide variety of viscosities from something similar to water (lamp oil) to something more like maple syrup (baby oil) to something resembling honey and even oils thicker than that.
#97
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It's so confusing I'm going to ignore it and not add any kind of lamp oil or kerosene or whatever to the wax in my crock pot. It's not intuitive to me that adding liquid to melted liquid wax will make it more liquid, so it seems to solve a problem that I don't have.
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I don't think you need to add anything if you are already using a bike chain wax, e.g., Silca or Molten Speed Wax.
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Adding something to the melted wax won’t make the melted wax more liquid. It will make the hardened wax more liquid. Or, more specifically, it makes the wax less hard.
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At the temperature of melted wax, kerosene is too volatile and would form a vapor cloud over the wax. It has a flash point of about 100°F. If you are heating wax to 200°F, as propose above, that is significantly above the flash point of kerosene. Paraffin lamp oil has a flash point of 200°F. That’s still a bit low for a 200°F wax melt but better than kerosene. Mineral oil has a flash point of 440°F. Much safer. Vaseline has a similar flash point to mineral oil.