francophile 

Huh. Actually, so does the US 1974 catalog. Was too lazy to look it up before, but sure enough, there it is: https://www.bikeboompeugeot.com/Broc...0Page%2017.jpg

'74 PX-10E has fancly lugs, '74 PX-10LE doesn't.

arlynculwick

Hi folks


I'd very much appreciate your expertise in identifying my vintage Peugeot, as I cannot find its exact spec on any catalogues I'm aware of.


Here are some defining features:

1. 6-digit serial number on Simplex dropouts
   
2. Lugs are the older, more elaborate, kind
   
3. Simplex derailleurs
   
4. Simplex gear shifters, with a plastic grip, mounted on down tube
   
5. 12 speed
   
6. Weinmann 730 brakes
   
7. Weinmann brake levers
   
8. Pedal crank has "PEUGEOT" on it
   
9. Rear brake cable runs on the underside of the top tube, and is attached using welded-on fixings, not clamps
   

I attach photos for further details. [edtit: this doesn't seem to be working; will try in the following post.]

Note:it's just been restored, so ignore the paint and the decals.

arlynculwick

The photos are in a gallery on my profile, as I'm not allowed to post photos until I've posted 10 other things.

I'm also not allowed to post URLs, but feel free to remove the square brackets from this: www[dot]bikeforums.net/g/album/27469467

cb400bill

Pic Assist - Picture by 562249 | 27469474 | (bikeforums.net)

ehcoplex 

Have you perused the catalogs up on BikeBoomPeugeot? A guess would be a mid or late '70s UO-something..... with some upgraded parts?

oneclick 

Who painted it?

For your sake I hope I am wrong, but that does not look like a Peugeot to me - the rear brake cable fittings especially, and the seatstay tops don't look right either.

ehcoplex 

Looking at the Peugeot brochures it seems like there were a couple years where (some of) the UO models had housing guides like those... Can't tell re: the seatstay tops though..

markk900

I'm kinda leaning in oneclick 's direction: decals look early 80s but could not find a match through a (not exhaustive) review of the catalogs; the cable stops braze ons do not look like Peugeot (seems by early 80s they were on top of the top tube), but if they are they point to a lower end model like a UO-8 or equivalent; seat stay caps do not look like most Peugeots (round instead of the usual oval). And I realize its been redecalled but the seat tube decal has me completely stumped......

Anyway, sure is a pretty bike!

oneclick 

These guides (and stay-tops) don't look like the ones on the Peugeots - pic off the net of a claimed '69 A08 that looks exactly the business:

arlynculwick

Thank you, everyone, for your insights, I'm learning a lot!

oneclick, great find with that A08! Same seatstay caps, with a different lug, and different brake cable fittings.
In case it helps, I've uploaded four more photos of them to the album (with apologies again for having to mutilate URLs by inserting square brackets) : www[.]bikeforums.net/g/picture/27473710

Provenance: I found the bike on Gumtree for a steal, and sent it to BMC in Woodstock (Cape Town) to improve its sorry state of repair. Jared there got excited about it, resprayed the frame, and added those decals.

ehcoplex yes, I have used the catalogues to find rear brake cable fittings on various 1960s and 1970s Peugots that are identical to my bike's. P10s especially.

I have also found a few bicycles with pedal cranks identical to mine (that is, with "PEUGOT" on them), but have so far been unable to identify their model years. Will dig more.

arlynculwick

The seatstay caps on this (alleged) 1978 PRN10 look the same too:
www[.]velovintageagogo.com/t2626p30-peugeot-prn10-1978

oneclick 

I think it was probably an item made for the french trade at the time; it's on a couple of Mercier bikes in the shed - here is a pic on a mixte:

markk900

I am almost certain it is not an AO-8 as I have 2 and neither has lugs as nice as the OP’s bike. Earlier Peugeots of that level (Ax and Ux) before the late 70s had the Aztec head lugs. Also to my knowledge none of that series ever got forged dropouts. And the seat lug itself was a keyed flat bolt and nut not a nicely recessed Allen bolt.

the PRN looks a lot closer but where I got hung up in my catalog search was none of them had the brazed on guides under the top tube. The earlier (ie pre 1972) A/U bikes had a single flat piece of metal and required a stepped ferrule (like the red AO-8) and later ones had similar guides to the subject bike but made much less robustly.

The lugs definitely feel PR level or better but the brazed on guides are a question. However now that I realize OP is from South Africa that may help with a regional difference.

markk900

By chance did you retain pictures from Gumtree? The sad state of the original bike may help in determining its model type.

arlynculwick

markk900 Unfortunately, the entire bike (including washers, bolts, chrome parts, etc.) had been messily spraypainted appliance white in a half-hearted attempt to hipsterise it.
As a result, none of the original decals remained, but at least the serial number on the dropout wasn't going to disappear.

That 6-digit serial number is what made things exciting.

markk900

So I *think* I found a fairly good match in the french catalogs: a 1979 PBN10: It doesn't show a picture but mentions "new brazed brake cable guides", and otherwise the frame of that series matches yours pretty well....also crank and rear derailleur are a match. Not perfect but maybe?

https://www.bikeboompeugeot.com/Broch...oomPeugeot.JPG

From what I gather PFN had Vitus tubing, PBN had Peugeot tubing....

ehcoplex 

'78 UO10 cable stops and stay caps match, but head tube lugs don't....

ehcoplex 

Or maybe a Canadian market UO12....?

markk900

ehcoplex : wow really close but missing forged dropouts…

ehcoplex 

We seem to be circling closer and closer...!

It's knows that Peugeot was a little fast-&-loose with QC/finish/S#s and general 'consistency' during the 70s bike boom. As arlynculwick is in SA I wonder if it was a transitional/parts-bin model unloaded to secondary/tertiary markets...

Classtime 

Velo Sport made a bunch of Peugeots in Canada. Was there another manufacturer building Peugeots for other markets? I almost grabbed a Velo Sport built Peugeot a while back that had some pretty nice brazing.

bertinjim 

If the bike was found in Cape Town then it is likely of South African production. The fork crown and cable stops are correct for that period. Peugeot built off shore and production was done here in Canada, in Brazil and in South Africa so it's likely a domestic SA build.

arlynculwick

We do seem to be homing in on this one!

While I may have to resign to a partial match due to the unavailability of South African Peugeot catalogues, it looks to me as if it can be dated roughly as follows:

1. The lugs correspond to ~1979-1980 bikes. Earlier lugs were more ornate, and later ones were more minimal or had disappeared completely.
2. The 6-digit serial number puts it in the late 70s at the latest, when 7-digit serial numbers appeared.
3. The pedal crank arms with "PEUGEOT" pantographed on them seem to appear on late 70s bikes at the earliest, and then to be replaced with plain cranks not much later, say, 1984.

Let me know if I'm wrong in any of these points!

So far we're at "~1979 Peugeot Sprint except with forged dropouts"... which makes me wonder whether it's a 1979 Course, except that the lugs and position of the rear brake cable don't match up with that of a Course. This then made me think it might be a PKN10, except the seat tube top on a PKN10 has a curve in it, and mine's straight.

What else is there??​

markk900

So far we seem to be aligned, except that the idea of 6 or 7 digit serial number’s corresponding to specific dates seems not to be true. One of our AO-8s know to be a early 70s version has an 8 digit serial so I don’t think there’s any rhyme or reason to them.

What part of the PKN10 did you find curved? It’s not a bad fit for your bike other than large flange hubs. Do you remember if there was chrome under the paint on the front forks?

Also, assuming components like the crank and hubs are original, there may be date codes on them.

arlynculwick

If you look at a PKN10 from the side, the top of the seat tube is in a slight U-shape, here's mine is cut in a straight line.

As for dates, yes I've heard that serial numbers before the late seventies were basically chaos, but were there any 6-digit serial numbers _after_ the period of chaos? Apparently not, as far as I've heard.

I've asked Jared whether he noticed any chrome on the forks when he took the bad paint off. I'll also check the flanges and crank for telltale details — nice idea! It's late here, so I'll respond in the morning.