tds101 

Have any of you seen this bike yet? For $1999 it's a solid choice, especially with the Pinion Gearbox Smart.Shift. This thing is SMOKIN!!!

Doc_Wui

I don't feel the excitement. Just a sadness that bikes are too complicated for the American buyer..Gotta give them automatic downshifting and upshifting, plus a big motor to move it up to 20 mph, At least it's 2.5" tires.





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tds101 

I love it, and it's from a company that's well known, respected, and provides customer service that I can actually access.

cat0020

I've got one on order, expecting delivery sometime mid-May.
The main advantage is the minimal maintenance the Gates belt drive & lack of derailleur.
$2k price tag is a great value for what it is equipped with.
Maybe not meant for beginners, but certainly oriented for ease of operation.
I suspect the feature of auto-shift isn't not just for those who are new to shifting gears, but also to optimize the battery range by using the most efficient gearing as the speed changes.

Another video about the impressive hill climbing ability of the Lectric ONE, even though it's a hub motor.

Smaug1

I feel like Lectric is getting a bit model-dense, so that they're overlapping with their other models, rather than adding some models with no overlap and no competition.

Lectric ONE:

• Since it doesn't fold and isn't their dedicated cargo bike, why 20" wheels? I'm thinking "parts bin engineering." 700c would've lessened the rolling resistance.
• Good call on the Gates belt drive and Pinion gearbox; brings the "low maintenance" advertising point to the next level.
• Good call on the battery style; it'll be SO much easier to get spares, when needed. Probably cheaper too? (unless they use a proprietary mount or something?)
• Aside from that one low maintenance aspect, what does it do that the XP 3.0 doesn't do for $1k less? AND the XP 3.0 folds for easier storage and its rear rack holds 5X the weight! (150 lbs. vs. 30 lbs.!)
• In the vein of low maintenance, I think they should've spec'd cast wheels instead of spoked.

XP 3.0:

• A pretty versatile package and a killer value. It can do a bit of everything.
• I'd like to see a "street tires" build option. Matter of fact, this should be an option for ALL of their eBikes. (my XP Lite is SO much nicer to ride on the street with BMX tires fitted)

Xpedition:

• How about putting the belt drive & Pinion gearbox on THIS baby? (where weight is less of a concern)
• Cast wheels too, please; it's a heavy-duty cargo bike.

With these things in mind, the ONE seems superfluous to me.

Smaug1

Following up on my earlier comment on adding models with no overlap:

XP Trike 2:

• For those who want a trike but also want to keep it a bit sporty.

XP Bent:

• There would be no competition in this area under $6k that I'm aware of.

XP Lite 2:

• Take the excellent little XP Lite and add a 3-speed IGH and Gates Belt Drive. We'd likely gain a pound in the IGH, but would lose some from the chain vs. belt.
• Gears:
  • 5 mph climbing gear, also useful on a crowded MUP (no electric needed, for most riders)
  • 10 mph easy cruising gear (most riders would not need electric assistance here, vastly improving practical range)
  • 15 mph high speed gear
• Street tires build option

Lightweight, full size:

• 250 W hub motor, 36 V power system
• 650b or 700c wheels and 35 or 32mm width
• 3 or 5-speed IGH and belt drive
• No suspension
• weighs 40 lbs. or less
• Class 2

Super-Portable:

• 14" wheels, 2 to 2.5" wide tires
• 250 W, 36 V power system
• Single speed belt drive w/ coaster rear brake and mechanical disc front brake. Gear it for 10 mph, accept ghost pedaling to reach 20 mph. (15.5 mph for UK/Europe)
• Class 2
• Fits in the back of a typical sedan trunk
• 40 lbs. or less.

Single Speed urban bike:

• Partner with Surly to provide the frame? (They already make one)
• Class 2
• Drop bar; medium posture. Bar tops would be fairly upright; drops would be aero. Set it up so a dude with a 30 lb. beer belly could still use the drops.
• Belt drive, coaster rear brake, mech. disc front brake
• Gear for 13 mph; most riders could stand up and pump to climb mild hills. Hub motor geared for max. 20 mph should be plenty torquey to conquer moderate hills. Ghost pedal to reach Class 2 limit on the flats.

speedy25

I did not notice they used the pinion drive! Now you have a choice. Lectric or Stromer.

-SP

Duragrouch

Electric AND Pinion gearbox, that does look like a smokin' deal! I think it's 20" wheels because they are stronger than larger diameter, and less weight with typical e-bike wide tires. I don't understand though... if Pinion mid-drive, why the fat rear hub? I haven't watched videos. Or is the Pinion just for manual pedaling power?

Last year a friend of a friend bought a Wired Freedom I think, very good specs, powerful and huge battery, also $2k. Great reviews online, but haven't heard back from him about it. Larger wheels.

cat0020

Pinion is a gearbox, not a mid-drive motor, Pinion gearbox is meant to eliminate the need for derailleur & gears on the rear hub, that way the Gates belt drive can be equipped to eliminate the chain drive & maintenance.

Wired Freedom, though powerful ebike, but the large size wheels & tires weight significant amount.
Not ideal in city commute where compact size can mean smaller target & easier to maneuver among busy traffic or storage.

2old

I think a pinion has the advantages of an IGH, relative to protection from the elements, being able to shift gears while stopped ......

Smaug1

I think Ride1UP and Priority also make bikes with Pinion gearboxes too?

Duragrouch

When I first heard of Pinion it was a couple years ago, someone on the bike trail mentioned it and I looked it up. IIRC, 12 or 18 speeds with no duplicates. Sounded great, but all bikes equipped with it were $5000+ and I think all in Europe. So now, an ebike equipped with a pinion for $2000, that's a big advance in bang-for-buck.

2old

Individuals have reported extremely long life spans for Rohloff hubs (which require only an oil change every year --- or 3K miles, and cost $1500 or so). I wonder what to expect from these new drive trains.

cat0020

Pinion's website suggest maintenance at 10k km.
https://pinion.eu/en/service-videos/

Smaug1

They were always an option, but so expensive and heavy, they often don't make sense.
I suppose the expense ($1400 and up new, $700 used) can be justified by the performance; they're the most mechanically efficient IGHs available. The weight though, at around 7 lbs. is a killer. The bikes they're found on are usually $5k+.
I guess if it is for a commuter, one could skip the rear rack and use a front rack instead to try to re-balance the bike...

cat0020

I have a Rohloff equipped recumbent since 2016 or so, have yet to get it serviced, granted that it's a folding recumbent that fits in a suitcase which I use when traveling to far away places.
Internal gear hubs are great for travel bikes that require shifting reliability with minimal maintenance.
3k or 6k service interval is well beyond the distance of regular chain.
The weight of the rear hub/wheel is significant, likely the same (if not more than) 3x9 drivetrain.
I'm waiting until the chain/cog to wear out before replacing the drive chain with a belt drive.

CrimsonEclipse

I honestly didn't know there even WAS a belt solution for recumbents.

Pics please when you do it!

Gleis

I haven't seen the specific bike you're referring to, but it sounds intriguing, especially with the Pinion Gearbox Smart.

Duragrouch

I don't have time to wade through the long videos. My guess is that at the price point, it's gonna have the Pinion C1.6 gearbox, which is only 295% range, which is not enough for a bike with that speed on the flats, and that much weight for pedaling up hills; It assumes you always have battery life for motor assist, which is a bad assumption in my opinion, both in terms of getting home, and desiring to exercise without motor assist. Based on my understanding of the Pinion design, if it's a 6 speed, it's the part of the box for "fine gear adjustments", and lacking the 2X or 3X sequential ranges that give the other boxes 12 and 18 speeds. So it's a simpler gearbox, so you get what you pay for, so I think a false economy.

tds101 

Blah,blah,blah... For the price it's a fantastic deal. If you weren't so lazy you would see by actually watching the videos how good a climber the bike actually is, and how fast it is on flats (solid speed). Stop spewing nonsense without actually looking up the bike. It's proving, via VIDEO REVIEWS, to be excellent.

Duragrouch

It appears to be a fantastic deal. But if it doesn't have a low enough gear for me to make it up a long hill when the battery is dead, that's what's known as a "showstopper" problem to me, no matter how good everything else is. It's a low probability, high severity event. MOST people will not care, they will always assume E-assist, and that's fine. Every reasonably price ebike I have seen has a 1X crank with not a huge range cassette, so limited gearing. So this is pretty normal. Having the Pinion is a plus for minimal maintenance. I just wonder how much additional it would cost with the wider-range Pinions, and I don't think that was a cost decision, but a marketing decision, in the same way that we sometimes have to pay $1000 premium to get an option that costs the manufacturer only $100 or $50 more.

If it's like my folding bike, I can pull off the cheap 1X steel crank and put on a 2X hollow spindle and derailleur and it's a lot better bike, and I don't lose much sunk costs.

If the Lectric is even upgradable, discarding the base Pinion for a better one, is a large sunk cost. It's about equal cost to needing to replace the frame.

Thus, to buy a bike, any bike, with a Pinion, I'm going to want to have the best gear range available from the get-go, because that's the best deal in the short run, medium run, and long run.

tds101 

I'll cut to the chase. This is an ebike, and it's not meant to be pedaled UP A HILL without battery power. There are expensive, high end ebikes that are built to do it, but not usually in this price class. They do exist, but this was never claimed to be a featherweight, single speed hipster or sport bike. It's a commuter ebike, and it easily ascends hills with battery power, as intended. And apparently the gearing is quite good for speed as well as those pesky hills. If it doesn't suit you, I have one last thing to add...

Smaug1

No need to be rude, tds.

tds101 

Sorry... It's a long story.

CrimsonEclipse