View Poll Results: Do You Use the Large Front Chainring/Large Rear Cog Combination?
Yes
51
46.79%
No
58
53.21%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll
Do You Use the Large Front Chainring/Large Rear Cog Combination?
#76
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Shifting the RD once is a lot faster and easier than shifting the FD once and the RD thrice, so the onus is on you to explain why you'd want/need to drop to the small ring. Yeah, it makes sense if you anticipate needing/wanting less than 42 gear inches because of upcoming terrain but, if you don't, shifting the RD makes more sense.
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#77
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So I'm with JohnDThompson.
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I'd be interested to see a breakdown of the groupsets being used by the "no" folks. I would assume that they're mostly using older groups... or older folks accustomed to older groups.
#79
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Chain drops seem to be more common with bigger gaps in some chainring combos -- 53/39, 50/34 -- and index shifters, than with old school 52/42 and friction shifters. But front derailleur shifts have always been trickier than RD.
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No bones about it. Older guy on an older bike. Mostly Shimano 600 Tricolor. It's on 2 of my bikes.
Definitely cross when it cross chains..
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I answered a bored "no" to this question. Here is a chart that approximates the gear-inches for two of my road bike setups. Someone please explain to me why I would want to/need to use my big-big combination in favor of dropping down to the middle range of my lower chainring. Please?
If you ride in the big-big combination and need to go to lower gears, there’s a lot of hunting and pecking to find the right gear.
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#82
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Older groups or older folks have nothing to do with it. It’s not the equipment but the way the gears work. Gears have duplicates on most all systems. Compact doubles might encourage big-big use but that’s because they are stupidly designed. They have a huge range but also have a huge gap in the middle of the range that makes the transition jarring. They are ridden more like two independent drivetrains than a more progressive gearing system would be.
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#83
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Older groups or older folks have nothing to do with it. It’s not the equipment but the way the gears work. Gears have duplicates on most all systems. Compact doubles might encourage big-big use but that’s because they are stupidly designed. They have a huge range but also have a huge gap in the middle of the range that makes the transition jarring. They are ridden more like two independent drivetrains than a more progressive gearing system would be.
#84
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#85
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You state that older groups and older folks have nothing to do with it, but you go on to say that compact doubles, which are decidedly modern and pretty much standard fare on new road bikes, encourage different shifting patterns? You don't think that that's a bit contradictory? And you don't think that the chainline flexibility of modern 11- and 12-speed chains makes a difference? Ease of set-up and trim positions? None of that, eh? It's just "the way gears work"? Okay.
Modern chains aren’t all more flexible than other chain either. If anything they are more delicate with thinner plates, tighter tolerances, and prone to wear more quickly. Nor are they any easier to set up nor do they have more trim positions. My STI triples are dead simple to set up. They have the same soft second shift trim position as a double in addition to the third shift for the inner ring.
With my triple (or even a more traditional double), I have more duplicates but I don’t have to do multiple gear changes to maintain a more constant cadence. I also don’t need to use the big-big combination because it’s duplicated further down the middle chainring range.
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Stuart Black
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#86
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Occasionally. But chain length is more of an issue than cross-chaining, for a recumbent. (No matter what ring is used, the chain runs the same from the idler under the seat to the derailleur.)
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With the compact double the speed difference between the two ranges is 5 mph. To maintain the same speed, the rider has to increase cadence to over 120 rpm or the rider has to upshift twice to get the same speed/cadence as the closer ratio triple gives.
Road riders will go on and on about how they want close ratios so that they can find just the right gear for the right speed but then they ride a drivetrain that doesn’t allow for that kind of close ratios. I don’t get it.
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Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
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#88
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If you want to maintain a similar speed at a similar cadence, there is. Consider the following. The 50/39/30 with an 11-34 cassette is the gearing I have on my fast road bike. Comparing it to a 50/34 with the same cassette, let’s assume that you are riding in the 23 tooth gear on both bikes at 90 RPM on the same 28mm tires. Speed is 15.7 mph. If I shift off the large ring to the middle one, the speed difference at 90 RPM is 3.5mph. A slight increase in cadence will bring me back up to the same speed.
With the compact double the speed difference between the two ranges is 5 mph. To maintain the same speed, the rider has to increase cadence to over 120 rpm or the rider has to upshift twice to get the same speed/cadence as the closer ratio triple gives.
Road riders will go on and on about how they want close ratios so that they can find just the right gear for the right speed but then they ride a drivetrain that doesn’t allow for that kind of close ratios. I don’t get it.
With the compact double the speed difference between the two ranges is 5 mph. To maintain the same speed, the rider has to increase cadence to over 120 rpm or the rider has to upshift twice to get the same speed/cadence as the closer ratio triple gives.
Road riders will go on and on about how they want close ratios so that they can find just the right gear for the right speed but then they ride a drivetrain that doesn’t allow for that kind of close ratios. I don’t get it.
#89
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Not contradictory at all. They encourage stupid shifting patterns. Look at Phil_getz’s chart. A compact double is almost a linear gear ratio system. You could start at gear one (little-big combination) and shift up one gear at a time to the top. The problem is that you can’t shift a bike like that because (assuming climbing upwards through the gears) when you get to the top of the low range, you’d have to downshift on the rear 10 (or 11 or 12) times and then upshift on the front. A little over the top but not by much. Because of the giant hole in the middle of the ratios, you still end up with a double or triple upshift when you change range or you end up with a very high cadence to maintain speed and stay in a relatively close gear.
Modern chains aren’t all more flexible than other chain either. If anything they are more delicate with thinner plates, tighter tolerances, and prone to wear more quickly. Nor are they any easier to set up nor do they have more trim positions. My STI triples are dead simple to set up. They have the same soft second shift trim position as a double in addition to the third shift for the inner ring.
With my triple (or even a more traditional double), I have more duplicates but I don’t have to do multiple gear changes to maintain a more constant cadence. I also don’t need to use the big-big combination because it’s duplicated further down the middle chainring range.
Modern chains aren’t all more flexible than other chain either. If anything they are more delicate with thinner plates, tighter tolerances, and prone to wear more quickly. Nor are they any easier to set up nor do they have more trim positions. My STI triples are dead simple to set up. They have the same soft second shift trim position as a double in addition to the third shift for the inner ring.
With my triple (or even a more traditional double), I have more duplicates but I don’t have to do multiple gear changes to maintain a more constant cadence. I also don’t need to use the big-big combination because it’s duplicated further down the middle chainring range.
If you want to maintain a similar speed at a similar cadence, there is. Consider the following. The 50/39/30 with an 11-34 cassette is the gearing I have on my fast road bike. Comparing it to a 50/34 with the same cassette, let’s assume that you are riding in the 23 tooth gear on both bikes at 90 RPM on the same 28mm tires. Speed is 15.7 mph. If I shift off the large ring to the middle one, the speed difference at 90 RPM is 3.5mph. A slight increase in cadence will bring me back up to the same speed.
With the compact double the speed difference between the two ranges is 5 mph. To maintain the same speed, the rider has to increase cadence to over 120 rpm or the rider has to upshift twice to get the same speed/cadence as the closer ratio triple gives.
Road riders will go on and on about how they want close ratios so that they can find just the right gear for the right speed but then they ride a drivetrain that doesn’t allow for that kind of close ratios. I don’t get it.
With the compact double the speed difference between the two ranges is 5 mph. To maintain the same speed, the rider has to increase cadence to over 120 rpm or the rider has to upshift twice to get the same speed/cadence as the closer ratio triple gives.
Road riders will go on and on about how they want close ratios so that they can find just the right gear for the right speed but then they ride a drivetrain that doesn’t allow for that kind of close ratios. I don’t get it.
#90
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Honestly, I just wanted to know.
Just because I don't ever do it, I never intended the subject to become cause for making value judgements.
I have certainly learned that the practice is much more common than I thought.
Thanks to everyone who has, up to this point, participated in this poll!
Just because I don't ever do it, I never intended the subject to become cause for making value judgements.
I have certainly learned that the practice is much more common than I thought.
Thanks to everyone who has, up to this point, participated in this poll!
#91
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I answered a bored "no" to this question. Here is a chart that approximates the gear-inches for two of my road bike setups. Someone please explain to me why I would want to/need to use my big-big combination in favor of dropping down to the middle range of my lower chainring. Please?
If I have a long climb or I'm doing it in a leisurely style, of course, small ring, but that's not always the case.
#92
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Even though I ride Di2 which tolerates cross chaining very well, I'm old school and always avoid.
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#93
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also the opposite I don’t go into the bottom half of the cassette when I’m in the small chain ring, for the same reason I don’t go to the upper half wile in the large ring. If I’m getting that easy to pedal, it’s time to be in the middle up front, or possibly all the way up to the large, depending upon decent, wind conditions, ect.
for me it has nothing to do with the “X” chaining it’s just the way I ride.
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I rarely do but my bikes usually come with an 11-28 cassette. I replace my 11sp cassettes with Ultegra 12-25's because I don't need an 11 or 28. The cross chaining doesn't seem as bad on a 25, it's not very noisy. I know technically it might be but it doesn't feel like it since it's wrapping a smaller diameter cog.
I don't know if it's been brought up in this thread but the worst cross chaining for me with most chainring combos is with the chain in the small ring/small cog because the chain will rub against the inside of the big ring. It doesn't seem to be an issue on my CX bike with a 46/36 since there's only a 10 tooth difference. That's actually my favorite gearing for the road and I'll probably swap all my bikes to it.
I don't know if it's been brought up in this thread but the worst cross chaining for me with most chainring combos is with the chain in the small ring/small cog because the chain will rub against the inside of the big ring. It doesn't seem to be an issue on my CX bike with a 46/36 since there's only a 10 tooth difference. That's actually my favorite gearing for the road and I'll probably swap all my bikes to it.
#96
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Have you eve met an 11-tooth cog which had read "Moby Dick"? Have you ever met an 11-tooth cog which could do even basic, four-function math? How many 11-tooth cogs can find Madagascar on a map?
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Yeah, they are nowhere near as bad as some people make out. Sure whenever you drop to the small ring you typically double shift the rear to match your cadence, but it's not a big deal. Having said that I'm about to go 1x on my next road bike. Having run 1x on mtbs for the last 6 years I'm sold on it. Now we have 13 speed Campag Ekar with a sensible cassette range I'm finally up for it on the road in place of a compact double.
#99
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I do starting out at pretty much every light. Since it is mostly flat out here I keep it in the big ring. It would be too annoying to shift the front and rear for every light.
I've been happy with the lifetime of chain and gears so am not going to stop despite lecture from LBS owner when I dropped off bike that way. Actually I took my business elsewhere.
I've been happy with the lifetime of chain and gears so am not going to stop despite lecture from LBS owner when I dropped off bike that way. Actually I took my business elsewhere.
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#100
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As someone mentioned above, this is why Shimano brifters have trim settings.