Upgrading My Grand Canyon AL 6.0 MTB for Speed: Need Advice!
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Upgrading My Grand Canyon AL 6.0 MTB for Speed: Need Advice!
Hey fellow riders,
I've been thoroughly enjoying my 2020 Grand Canyon AL 6.0 MTB, but lately, I've been using it more for fitness rides on roads and gravel paths. To optimize it for speed, I'm planning some modifications and would love your input.
First up, I'm looking to swap out the tires to ones better suited for faster surfaces. (probably Continental Race King)
Secondly, I'm considering upgrading the crankset to support higher speeds. Currently, I've got the SHIMANO DEORE XT HOLLOWTECH II MTB Crankset 2x11-speed with a 36-26 chainring setup. My idea is to replace the larger 36-tooth chainring with a 38-tooth one while keeping the smaller 26-tooth for those challenging uphill sections.
Has anyone tried a similar modification? Will the 38-tooth chainring work well with the 26-tooth one, or am I better off considering a different setup?
I'd greatly appreciate any insights or experiences you can share on this topic. Thanks in advance for your help!
I've been thoroughly enjoying my 2020 Grand Canyon AL 6.0 MTB, but lately, I've been using it more for fitness rides on roads and gravel paths. To optimize it for speed, I'm planning some modifications and would love your input.
First up, I'm looking to swap out the tires to ones better suited for faster surfaces. (probably Continental Race King)
Secondly, I'm considering upgrading the crankset to support higher speeds. Currently, I've got the SHIMANO DEORE XT HOLLOWTECH II MTB Crankset 2x11-speed with a 36-26 chainring setup. My idea is to replace the larger 36-tooth chainring with a 38-tooth one while keeping the smaller 26-tooth for those challenging uphill sections.
Has anyone tried a similar modification? Will the 38-tooth chainring work well with the 26-tooth one, or am I better off considering a different setup?
I'd greatly appreciate any insights or experiences you can share on this topic. Thanks in advance for your help!
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: GMT-5
Posts: 964
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 561 Post(s)
Liked 420 Times
in
278 Posts
Even if you can lock the front suspension, it helps, but the geometry is still all wrong compared to a good urban bike.
And if you can't lock the front suspension, there's no point. Get another bike.
Don't get me wrong. the Canyon is a nice bike, but Marathons on that just won't work.
And if you can't lock the front suspension, there's no point. Get another bike.
Don't get me wrong. the Canyon is a nice bike, but Marathons on that just won't work.
#3
Mother Nature's Son
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sussex County, Delaware
Posts: 3,122
Bikes: 2014 Orbea Avant MD30, 2004 Airborne Zeppelin TI, 2003 Lemond Poprad, 2001 Lemond Tourmalet, 2014? Soma Smoothie
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 854 Post(s)
Liked 1,445 Times
in
822 Posts
If you want to do a lot of the road/gravel riding, an appropriate bike would be much better suited to doing that. You surely can do it with what you have, but you will never get the same performance, handling and comfort. Going from a 36t to a 38t ring is going to make almost no difference on it's own. A jump of 6 tooth would definitely give you more speed. Many set ups have 42 tooth front with wide range cassettes. If your front dr can handle the 42 tooth, it will need to be raised a bit and cable adjusted, then you would just need to switch to a longer chain. If you are using a cassette with the small cog of 10 or 11, not much you can do there. I had 42 front with 11-36 rear for a while, the only time I spun out in 42-11 was going downhill. I believe that gives about 28 mph at 100 rpm pedal stroke.
In the end, my opinion, if you can afford it, and your going to use it quite a bit, get a different bike. If you can do the work on the bike and want to keep the cost down, there are a slew of very nice road/hybrid/gravel bikes available. Or, an older hard tail mountain bike, like a stumpjumper/rockhopper, that make for very nice conversion gravel/road bikes. That might involve more work and dollars, but can have fine results. Once again, if you can afford it, get the right style of bike. If not, make do with what you can.
Front suspension for the road/gravel is a real detriment, a lot of extra weight, bad handling, even if you can lock it.
In the end, my opinion, if you can afford it, and your going to use it quite a bit, get a different bike. If you can do the work on the bike and want to keep the cost down, there are a slew of very nice road/hybrid/gravel bikes available. Or, an older hard tail mountain bike, like a stumpjumper/rockhopper, that make for very nice conversion gravel/road bikes. That might involve more work and dollars, but can have fine results. Once again, if you can afford it, get the right style of bike. If not, make do with what you can.
Front suspension for the road/gravel is a real detriment, a lot of extra weight, bad handling, even if you can lock it.
Last edited by delbiker1; 04-23-24 at 06:51 AM.
#4
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,661
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4414 Post(s)
Liked 4,056 Times
in
2,704 Posts
Agreed with others just get a bike more suited to your current riding. Have multiple bikes is a good thing. It is quite hard to have one bike that can do everything well it will do some things well and others not so well. I would rather have a mountain bike for mountain biking and a road or gravel bike for the rides you are looking to do.
I could go through the trouble of swapping out the front fork to a suspension corrected carbon fork and maybe be able to fit a larger chainring and put on different tires and all of that but when I want to mountain bike I would undo all of that and it is more trouble than it is worth and the bike still won't be a great bicycle for the road.
I could go through the trouble of swapping out the front fork to a suspension corrected carbon fork and maybe be able to fit a larger chainring and put on different tires and all of that but when I want to mountain bike I would undo all of that and it is more trouble than it is worth and the bike still won't be a great bicycle for the road.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,111
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4220 Post(s)
Liked 3,906 Times
in
2,329 Posts
Having watched many (as in many dozens) of customers go through this process of changing use and expectations I find that most will not be satisfied with the changes of gearing the OP asks about. An aprox 5% increase of ratio is very small (that's about half the 10ish% that many consider a good difference between adjacent ratios). And unless one also increases their power by that amount the body will still run out of ability at only slightly higher speed, at best.
The classic method to go faster that is body related is to learn how to pedal faster, as in cadence. Does the OP know their comfortable cadence range when on a flat surface? It is harder to train the body then to buy parts though that is why those who have a need (paycheck? ego among clubies?) spend so much time putting in the work on their pedaling.
Now a lighter tire with less tread WILL make a difference. Less so in top end speed and more so in the bike's feel or reaction to inputs. The bike feels more lively and accelerates easier. For me these are greater aspects then top speed is IME.
I completely agree that body positioning will also make a significant difference. The more of the body that can be applied to going forward the more speed is potentially available. Bikes made for control over rough surfaces tend to have a more upright body position and wider/open spread between the hands (wider bars). Both increase the aero drag and the faster one goes the greater the aero drag is what one is held back by.
When I use to work the sales floor I would use auto references to help explain this stuff. Trying to go fast on smoother surfaces with a MtB is like driving a pick up truck on the road. When alone it's fine but when compared to other road users the qualities that work on dirt are limiting when compared to a sports coup, let alone a true sports car. (Just as that sports car suffers off road were one to try).
So as long as the OP rides by themselves most all the time and isn't competitive when with others (or pretending they are racing when they see another rider) doing what is proposed will be fine, till it isn't.
As to the ft der handling the added 2 teeth difference- likely it will and likely there might be a tad more shifting sluggishness or effort. Enough to mater for the OP's skill at shifting and ability to adjust/tune the der (which will be needed) I don't know. Andy (who is sensitive enough to all this to end up with more than just one bike in his life)
The classic method to go faster that is body related is to learn how to pedal faster, as in cadence. Does the OP know their comfortable cadence range when on a flat surface? It is harder to train the body then to buy parts though that is why those who have a need (paycheck? ego among clubies?) spend so much time putting in the work on their pedaling.
Now a lighter tire with less tread WILL make a difference. Less so in top end speed and more so in the bike's feel or reaction to inputs. The bike feels more lively and accelerates easier. For me these are greater aspects then top speed is IME.
I completely agree that body positioning will also make a significant difference. The more of the body that can be applied to going forward the more speed is potentially available. Bikes made for control over rough surfaces tend to have a more upright body position and wider/open spread between the hands (wider bars). Both increase the aero drag and the faster one goes the greater the aero drag is what one is held back by.
When I use to work the sales floor I would use auto references to help explain this stuff. Trying to go fast on smoother surfaces with a MtB is like driving a pick up truck on the road. When alone it's fine but when compared to other road users the qualities that work on dirt are limiting when compared to a sports coup, let alone a true sports car. (Just as that sports car suffers off road were one to try).
So as long as the OP rides by themselves most all the time and isn't competitive when with others (or pretending they are racing when they see another rider) doing what is proposed will be fine, till it isn't.
As to the ft der handling the added 2 teeth difference- likely it will and likely there might be a tad more shifting sluggishness or effort. Enough to mater for the OP's skill at shifting and ability to adjust/tune the der (which will be needed) I don't know. Andy (who is sensitive enough to all this to end up with more than just one bike in his life)
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
Last edited by Andrew R Stewart; 04-23-24 at 07:42 AM.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,286
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked 460 Times
in
352 Posts
First up, I'm looking to swap out the tires to ones better suited for faster surfaces. (probably Continental Race King)
Secondly, I'm considering upgrading the crankset to support higher speeds. Currently, I've got the SHIMANO DEORE XT HOLLOWTECH II MTB Crankset 2x11-speed with a 36-26 chainring setup. My idea is to replace the larger 36-tooth chainring with a 38-tooth one while keeping the smaller 26-tooth for those challenging uphill sections.
Has anyone tried a similar modification? Will the 38-tooth chainring work well with the 26-tooth one, or am I better off considering a different setup?
Secondly, I'm considering upgrading the crankset to support higher speeds. Currently, I've got the SHIMANO DEORE XT HOLLOWTECH II MTB Crankset 2x11-speed with a 36-26 chainring setup. My idea is to replace the larger 36-tooth chainring with a 38-tooth one while keeping the smaller 26-tooth for those challenging uphill sections.
Has anyone tried a similar modification? Will the 38-tooth chainring work well with the 26-tooth one, or am I better off considering a different setup?
If you haven't already gone tubeless, that can be worth a few watts regardless of the tyre.
* 36 to 38 is 5.6% while 11 to 12 is 9%
#7
Senior Member
As I said on the other duplicate thread:
Thanks. OK let's unpack this.
Delta 31 teeth in back plus delta 10 teeth in front equals 41 teeth capacity needed for rear derailleur.
M8000-GS says 39 teeth total capacity (a surprise, my measly Shimano Tourney TX GS $13 RD has 45T capacity). So you are currently very marginal for the rear derailleur in terms of enlarging your gear range, front or rear. M8000-GS also says max front difference 10T, which you have.
Your current gear range is 17.9 to 94.7 gear inches. That's a great low, I don't think you need lower unless off-road on super-steep uphills; For a road bike, 17.9 is usually plenty low. 94.7 is also a good high, but if you want higher, what you need is a bigger front chainring, and 16T front difference is super common these days, that would give you a 42T chainring high. Plugging that revision into gear calc yields a 110.5 gear inch high, with excellent numbers through the range with a lot less overlap and duplicate gears. That's not a 120 race-high, but still pretty fast. That will bump your needed rear derailleur capacity to 47 teeth. A typical GS rear derailleur is rated for 45 and usually conservative, you could probably get away with that with a GS (mid) cage length (and preferrable for ground clearance) but if not enough capacity, a long cage should definitely work. However your front derailleur is only rated for 34-38T and 10T difference. So...
To get that higher gear range, you need:
- 42T large/high chainring
- front derailleur that can handle 42/26 (and pictures show your current FD to be one of those newer weird mounts, not road or band-clamp style, so you may need new FD to be same)
- rear derailleur that can handle 47T total capacity
- longer chain
Alternate option: Change the cassette to 10-42, that gives you 104.2 gear inch high, not as high, and you might need a different freehub body to accept a 10T small cog, not certain.
I'm not the authority on specific parts, others here are good at that, I encourage them to chime in.
Here is what I've found on the manufacturer's website:
Tyre:
Original set
front: Schwalbe Rapid Rob 29x2.25"
back: Schwalbe Tough Tom 29x2.25"
New set (just changing)
Continental Race King 29x2.00" (50-622)
Casette
Shimano SLX M7000 11-42 11s
Crank
Shimano SLX M7000 36/26
Rear Derailleur
Shimano Deore XT M8000 GS
Cage lenght: medium
Front Derailleur
Shimano SLX M7020
Tyre:
Original set
front: Schwalbe Rapid Rob 29x2.25"
back: Schwalbe Tough Tom 29x2.25"
New set (just changing)
Continental Race King 29x2.00" (50-622)
Casette
Shimano SLX M7000 11-42 11s
Crank
Shimano SLX M7000 36/26
Rear Derailleur
Shimano Deore XT M8000 GS
Cage lenght: medium
Front Derailleur
Shimano SLX M7020
Delta 31 teeth in back plus delta 10 teeth in front equals 41 teeth capacity needed for rear derailleur.
M8000-GS says 39 teeth total capacity (a surprise, my measly Shimano Tourney TX GS $13 RD has 45T capacity). So you are currently very marginal for the rear derailleur in terms of enlarging your gear range, front or rear. M8000-GS also says max front difference 10T, which you have.
Your current gear range is 17.9 to 94.7 gear inches. That's a great low, I don't think you need lower unless off-road on super-steep uphills; For a road bike, 17.9 is usually plenty low. 94.7 is also a good high, but if you want higher, what you need is a bigger front chainring, and 16T front difference is super common these days, that would give you a 42T chainring high. Plugging that revision into gear calc yields a 110.5 gear inch high, with excellent numbers through the range with a lot less overlap and duplicate gears. That's not a 120 race-high, but still pretty fast. That will bump your needed rear derailleur capacity to 47 teeth. A typical GS rear derailleur is rated for 45 and usually conservative, you could probably get away with that with a GS (mid) cage length (and preferrable for ground clearance) but if not enough capacity, a long cage should definitely work. However your front derailleur is only rated for 34-38T and 10T difference. So...
To get that higher gear range, you need:
- 42T large/high chainring
- front derailleur that can handle 42/26 (and pictures show your current FD to be one of those newer weird mounts, not road or band-clamp style, so you may need new FD to be same)
- rear derailleur that can handle 47T total capacity
- longer chain
Alternate option: Change the cassette to 10-42, that gives you 104.2 gear inch high, not as high, and you might need a different freehub body to accept a 10T small cog, not certain.
I'm not the authority on specific parts, others here are good at that, I encourage them to chime in.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,827
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1949 Post(s)
Liked 2,183 Times
in
1,330 Posts
As others have said, making the conversion might not get you what you want. The other part is cost.
Ideally you would want to swap out the suspension fork for a rigid. There “might” be some possibilities to minimal handling improvement if you get the best ATC and offset to quicken things up, but you would want someone with real framebuilding knowledge to give you guidance.
Ultimately you might want to get dirt drop bars, which opens up more cost.
You could end up with a cool mod or a frankenbike that completely misses the mark.
John
Ideally you would want to swap out the suspension fork for a rigid. There “might” be some possibilities to minimal handling improvement if you get the best ATC and offset to quicken things up, but you would want someone with real framebuilding knowledge to give you guidance.
Ultimately you might want to get dirt drop bars, which opens up more cost.
You could end up with a cool mod or a frankenbike that completely misses the mark.
John
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,420
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2507 Post(s)
Liked 2,991 Times
in
1,697 Posts
Back when I was commuting on my Cannondale mountain bike, all I did to increase my speed was install slick tires and bolt-on time trial/triathlon/aero bars. I didn't bother with changing the drive train. As noted above, if your cadence range is sufficient, you'll be able to get pretty close to road bike speed with such a setup without changing your gearing.
#10
Senior Member
The gearing changes noted are not that expensive. However, it's still money, and best to look before you leap. I did plenty of calculations before my own conversion from 1X to 2X on a folder, and the results were exactly as planned. But for factors that cannot be changed such as frame and fork geometry, sounds like it would be good to sample some bikes that might be more ideal in that respect. But that's a lot more money, unless you get a good trade-in or sale price on your current bike. It's truly astonishing these days, the parts available to make minor adjustments in bike fit, if the frame is generally the correct size; I have a one-size-fits-all *folder*, supposed to fit between 4'8" and 6'3" height, the diverging angles of the handlebar riser/stem and the seatpost to increase the effecting top tube length as both go up, helps a lot. But other adjustments in seat position, handlebars, aero bars (and I need spacers to raise those with respect to the handlebars), have resulted in a really good fitting bike for me. Try out other bikes, if one feels better, take measurements and notes on difference in geometry versus your current bike; Once the seat is adjusted for you in height and fore/aft (with respect to bottom bracket center), what is the horizontal distance between the seat and handlebars, what is the height difference between the two, etc. Because I would think fit comes foremost in importance.
#11
Dirty Heathen
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: MC-778, 6250 fsw
Posts: 2,192
Bikes: 1997 Cannondale, 1976 Bridgestone, 1998 SoftRide, 1989 Klein, 1989 Black Lightning #0033
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 889 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
541 Posts
If you’re on hard, dry surfaces, you can get by with a lot less tread than you think you need. Something like a Schwalbe G-One or Panaracer GravelKing SK in 2.1” would be ideal for mixed surfaces, plus it’s a higher performance option than something like the Marathons.
Get the suspension fork dialed in, as much as it’s capable of. Most people generally ride with way less preload than they need. Sure, a soft fork makes the ride “smooth” but then it also tends to bob up and down more easily.
if it has a lockout, learn to make use of it on paved sections, but try not to hit any real bumps with it engaged; that tends to put a lot of stress on dampers and seals (especially in air spring forks)
As mentioned before, just throwing a bigger chainring at it may not make you any faster, unless you’re constantly “spinning out” your top gear; ie; that the bike is going at such a speed that you can’t pedal fast enough to keep it from freewheeling. Bigger gears require higher effort per each pedal stroke; it’s much easier to train yourself to pedal 10% faster, than make yourself (a sustained) 10% stronger
Get the suspension fork dialed in, as much as it’s capable of. Most people generally ride with way less preload than they need. Sure, a soft fork makes the ride “smooth” but then it also tends to bob up and down more easily.
if it has a lockout, learn to make use of it on paved sections, but try not to hit any real bumps with it engaged; that tends to put a lot of stress on dampers and seals (especially in air spring forks)
As mentioned before, just throwing a bigger chainring at it may not make you any faster, unless you’re constantly “spinning out” your top gear; ie; that the bike is going at such a speed that you can’t pedal fast enough to keep it from freewheeling. Bigger gears require higher effort per each pedal stroke; it’s much easier to train yourself to pedal 10% faster, than make yourself (a sustained) 10% stronger