Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Vintage MTB To Upright Bar / Urban Bike Conversions

Search
Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Vintage MTB To Upright Bar / Urban Bike Conversions

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 10-28-23, 12:55 PM
  #1151  
cooperryder
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
cooperryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dallas / Ft Worth
Posts: 1,164
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked 1,514 Times in 410 Posts
Originally Posted by dphilips
Here's a rebuild from this summer. I wasn't sure if the threadless headset disqualified it from this thread; best I can tell it's a 2002 Marin Madrone Trail, 20" (seems like it was an overseas specific model that made its way back here). The brushed aluminum frame is what caught my attention when it popped up locally. Built as kind of an ATB rather than a super practical bike but I love the ride.



dphilips

That's a great looking ride.
Nicely done. The brushed aluminum and silver bits really make it pop!

My 1994 Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo has the threadless headset and once I added a headset stem extender to get the bars up it's become one of my favorite rides.

cooperryder is offline  
Likes For cooperryder:
Old 10-28-23, 06:16 PM
  #1152  
clarkbre
Full Member
 
clarkbre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Snohomish, WA
Posts: 331

Bikes: 1993 Trek Antelope 830, 1996 Trek Singletrack 930, 1995 Giant Innova, 2012 Surly Pacer

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 22 Posts
I was able to complete the 1993 Trek Antelope 830 this morning. It's been converted to a 1x9 drivetrain, Bontrager Satellite Trekking handlebars, 26x2.3 tires. My first impressions is that it's a very comfortable and relaxed bike.



clarkbre is offline  
Old 10-28-23, 06:26 PM
  #1153  
clarkbre
Full Member
 
clarkbre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Snohomish, WA
Posts: 331

Bikes: 1993 Trek Antelope 830, 1996 Trek Singletrack 930, 1995 Giant Innova, 2012 Surly Pacer

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by cooperryder
dphilips
....My 1994 Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo has the threadless headset and once I added a headset stem extender to get the bars up it's become one of my favorite rides.

Looks great! My friend just handed down his '97 Hoo Koo E Koo and I'm deciding on what to do with it. They certainly are solid, well equipped bikes.
clarkbre is offline  
Likes For clarkbre:
Old 10-30-23, 08:39 AM
  #1154  
capnjonny 
Senior Member
 
capnjonny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Saratoga calif.
Posts: 1,049

Bikes: Miyata 610(66cm), GT Vantara Hybrid (64cm), Nishiki International (64cm), Peugeot rat rod (62 cm), Trek 800 Burning Man helicopter bike, Bob Jackson frame (to be restored?) plus a never ending stream of neglected waifs from the Bike exchange.

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 632 Times in 229 Posts
Diamond back accent / cruiser

Found this Diamond Back Accent at the bike exchange tagged for donation and just had to put my hands on it. Swapped out the bars and stem, added white cables, Shimano index thumbies, and put some baloon white walls on it. Usually we would sell something like this but we are pushing to increase our donations to meet our yearly goal so someone is going to receive a beautiful christmas present this year.

capnjonny is offline  
Likes For capnjonny:
Old 10-30-23, 07:49 PM
  #1155  
Korina
Happy banana slug
 
Korina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,696

Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked 1,530 Times in 917 Posts
Nice Ascent! Particularly love the mid-fork braze-on. Someone is definitely getting an excellent prezzie; good job.

Originally Posted by capnjonny
Found this Diamond Back Accent at the bike exchange tagged for donation and just had to put my hands on it. Swapped out the bars and stem, added white cables, Shimano index thumbies, and put some baloon white walls on it. Usually we would sell something like this but we are pushing to increase our donations to meet our yearly goal so someone is going to receive a beautiful christmas present this year.

Korina is offline  
Likes For Korina:
Old 10-31-23, 07:34 PM
  #1156  
Trav1s
Deraill this!
 
Trav1s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 623

Bikes: 18 Cdale Quick 1, 94 S-Works M2, 98 730 Multitrak, and a few others

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked 439 Times in 253 Posts
This is an amazing thread! I love the creative reinterpretation of the MTB theme. I have picked up two bikes on FB Marketplace and I've been thinking about what to do with them. The first snag for $30 is a 2001 Trek 800 Sport Mixte 13". Frame is in decent condition, wheel set is solid, and the drivetrain is in need of replacement. I upgraded some items on my wife's Verve 3 so this will receive the old saddle, pedals, and brakes to make a nice around town cruiser. Pretty sure those were the original Kenda tires and tubes...

I suspect my daughter will claim this as her next bike. If so, I can see a color change in the future.




Second FB Marketplace score is a $10 1999 Trek 820 in dragonfly green. I could not resist it and plan to make it my around town bike with upgrades like so many in the thread. Solid bike that has been ridden with a few upgrades over time. I love the Trek Madison Wisconsin sticker on the seatpost. I think one size larger might be better for me but I'll work with it and watch for other projects.



Trav1s is offline  
Likes For Trav1s:
Old 11-16-23, 05:21 PM
  #1157  
cooperryder
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
cooperryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dallas / Ft Worth
Posts: 1,164
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked 1,514 Times in 410 Posts
Today I finished the build up of my 1988 Schwinn Cimarron.

I did a thread on it here .

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post23074604


​​

Last edited by cooperryder; 11-16-23 at 10:41 PM.
cooperryder is offline  
Likes For cooperryder:
Old 12-04-23, 02:51 PM
  #1158  
cooperryder
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
cooperryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dallas / Ft Worth
Posts: 1,164
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked 1,514 Times in 410 Posts
I got rid of the zip ties on the top tube and installed two clamps for the rear brake cables/housing.

It's working well.

Fun bike!

I'm overall pleased with how this project turned out.

The original black paint was very very rough.




cooperryder is offline  
Likes For cooperryder:
Old 12-05-23, 03:17 PM
  #1159  
ShannonM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Humboldt County, CA
Posts: 832
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 405 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 430 Times in 286 Posts
Originally Posted by cooperryder

Those pedals are the business!!

What are they?

--Shannon
ShannonM is offline  
Old 12-06-23, 11:28 AM
  #1160  
cooperryder
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
cooperryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dallas / Ft Worth
Posts: 1,164
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked 1,514 Times in 410 Posts
Originally Posted by ShannonM
Those pedals are the business!!

What are they?

--Shannon
I got them off Amazon...
Link here...https://t.ly/O4NB2


Better shot of pedals.

Last edited by cooperryder; 12-06-23 at 11:34 AM.
cooperryder is offline  
Old 12-06-23, 06:58 PM
  #1161  
Greg C.
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Port Orange, FL
Posts: 55

Bikes: 1990 Trek 970, 95 Schwinn Searcher, 2012 Trek Wasabi cruiser

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by clarkbre
I was able to complete the 1993 Trek Antelope 830 this morning. It's been converted to a 1x9 drivetrain, Bontrager Satellite Trekking handlebars, 26x2.3 tires. My first impressions is that it's a very comfortable and relaxed bike.



I love those vintage Trek frames. Nice work on that one. 👍
Greg C. is offline  
Likes For Greg C.:
Old 12-15-23, 10:08 AM
  #1162  
gladhandbart
Newbie
 
gladhandbart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 6

Bikes: 2018 Raleigh Tamland 2, 1984 Fuji Touring Series V, 1984 Motobecane Grand Jubilee, 1984 Miyata Terra Runner, 2008 Specialized Hardrock Sport, 1981 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1992 Diamond Back Avail

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
How do the Cimmarons compare to other bicycles from this era? I'd love to try onesome day. I got an 84 Miyata Terra Runner that I love and plan on tweaking a bit in the vein of this thread. It's a very well-built machine. I often wonder how different bicycles from this era compare because all the reviews I've found were from the lens of using as ATB / MTBs.
gladhandbart is offline  
Old 12-15-23, 11:38 AM
  #1163  
cooperryder
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
cooperryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dallas / Ft Worth
Posts: 1,164
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked 1,514 Times in 410 Posts
Originally Posted by gladhandbart
How do the Cimmarons compare to other bicycles from this era? I'd love to try onesome day. I got an 84 Miyata Terra Runner that I love and plan on tweaking a bit in the vein of this thread. It's a very well-built machine. I often wonder how different bicycles from this era compare because all the reviews I've found were from the lens of using as ATB / MTBs.
Thank you.

I would guess your Terra Runner is a terrific bike.

I've had a couple dozen or more of the vintage rigid mtb's over the years that I converted to more upright riding with swept back bars, taller stem and quality street tires. Mine were mid 80s to mid 90's models.

I currently have 4 :
-the yellow 1988. Cimarron pictured in previous post
1990 Miele MTB
1990 Bridgestone CB0
1994 Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo

I've found if you find one that fits you well and set it up as I mentioned above you can enjoy it a lot whatever brand.

That said I always go for one with decent quality butted tubing , not some cheap Mart type of disposal bike with junk components.

Of the 4 I have I enjoy them all.

I think longer wheelbases and more relaxed geometry contribute to what I like in my riding.

I really try to dial in the seat height , the stem height and the reach between the seat and the middle of the handlebar that makes it comfortable for me.

I've had two 1990 Trek 950's I was very pleased with as well as a 1990 Specialized Rockhopper.

Of the 4 I have now I like the Cimarron a lot but give the edge to that Gary Fisher.

Everything time I ride it I just think what a great bike!
There's something special about it that just synch's up with me. Maybe it's the tubing, the fit or something else.

I do still enjoy riding the others as well.
It's fun for me to mix it up and appreciate each one.

I hope my ramblings helped.

It may take some experimenting but I even enjoy that part of the process myself.

Safe riding!


My 1994 Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo...




​​

Last edited by cooperryder; 12-15-23 at 11:43 AM.
cooperryder is offline  
Likes For cooperryder:
Old 12-15-23, 02:10 PM
  #1164  
gladhandbart
Newbie
 
gladhandbart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 6

Bikes: 2018 Raleigh Tamland 2, 1984 Fuji Touring Series V, 1984 Motobecane Grand Jubilee, 1984 Miyata Terra Runner, 2008 Specialized Hardrock Sport, 1981 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1992 Diamond Back Avail

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
Thanks for your input! I definitely have an appreciation for bikes with nice tubing! I've a goal to own or at least ride bikes with tubing from each of the major manufacturers... Your GF and Cimmaron look like fantastic rigs! It looks like you like tall stems, so do you use newer forks to give the extra height? Or do you reuse old ones from taller bikes? Does anyone know if any ATBs were made with Ishiwata tubing by chance?
gladhandbart is offline  
Old 12-15-23, 03:09 PM
  #1165  
eom 
Eccentric Old Man
 
eom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: BelleVegas, IL
Posts: 719

Bikes: 1986 Trek 520 Cirrus, 1979 Schwinn Traveler III, Trek T100, 1995 Trek 970, Fuji America

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 173 Times in 87 Posts
Originally Posted by gladhandbart
Thanks for your input! I definitely have an appreciation for bikes with nice tubing! I've a goal to own or at least ride bikes with tubing from each of the major manufacturers... Your GF and Cimmaron look like fantastic rigs! It looks like you like tall stems, so do you use newer forks to give the extra height? Or do you reuse old ones from taller bikes? Does anyone know if any ATBs were made with Ishiwata tubing by chance?
Here is a Ross Mt St Helens



__________________
email:
bikeforums@protonmail.com


eom is offline  
Old 12-15-23, 04:54 PM
  #1166  
Smokinapankake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Ogden, Utah
Posts: 870
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 217 Post(s)
Liked 682 Times in 261 Posts
Originally Posted by gladhandbart
Thanks for your input! I definitely have an appreciation for bikes with nice tubing! I've a goal to own or at least ride bikes with tubing from each of the major manufacturers... Your GF and Cimmaron look like fantastic rigs! It looks like you like tall stems, so do you use newer forks to give the extra height? Or do you reuse old ones from taller bikes? Does anyone know if any ATBs were made with Ishiwata tubing by chance?
My 1985 Peugeot Canyon Express was made with Ishiwata MTB double butted tubing.
Smokinapankake is online now  
Likes For Smokinapankake:
Old 12-21-23, 11:21 AM
  #1167  
gladhandbart
Newbie
 
gladhandbart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2023
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 6

Bikes: 2018 Raleigh Tamland 2, 1984 Fuji Touring Series V, 1984 Motobecane Grand Jubilee, 1984 Miyata Terra Runner, 2008 Specialized Hardrock Sport, 1981 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1992 Diamond Back Avail

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
Thanks for sharing! I'm not sure why, but Ishiwata tubing seems to fly under the radar compared to other manufacturers. And, at least on paper, they seem to have as good or better tube sets than any of the others. I've read good things about the Canyon Express, but I haven't heard of the Ross cycle. That's cool!
gladhandbart is offline  
Old 12-21-23, 11:50 AM
  #1168  
romperrr 
Pedal to the medal
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The Arsenal of Democracy
Posts: 1,232

Bikes: 1991 Team Miyata Track, 1992 Lemond Alpe d'Huez, 19?? Schwinn High Serra, 1982 Trek 614, 198X Raleigh Alyeska

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked 207 Times in 133 Posts
Originally Posted by gladhandbart
How do the Cimmarons compare to other bicycles from this era?
Cimmaron was Schwinn's top of the line mtb, it's a great bike. I particularly love that that it is both lugged at fillet brazed. I seem to recall its geometry is nearly the same the Surly LHT save for its higher bb. It makes a great frame for an upright conversion.
romperrr is offline  
Likes For romperrr:
Old 12-21-23, 02:32 PM
  #1169  
cooperryder
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
cooperryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dallas / Ft Worth
Posts: 1,164
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked 1,514 Times in 410 Posts
My next project... finished stripping the rough white paint off today.

Frame is a 1987 Schwinn LeTour.

Build up coming soon.

No paint does give one an idea of the frame builder's brazing skills.






cooperryder is offline  
Likes For cooperryder:
Old 12-21-23, 04:04 PM
  #1170  
plumberroy
Senior Member
 
plumberroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ohio
Posts: 1,107

Bikes: Surly long haul trucker, Surly steamroller,Huffy Catalina, Univega Alpina 501. Gravity deadeye monster, Raliegh sport , Electra loft 1

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 607 Post(s)
Liked 298 Times in 181 Posts
Originally Posted by ShannonM
Those pedals are the business!!

What are they?

--Shannon
I've switched over to the extra wide pedals on all the bikes that I ride much. I've had 2 surgeries on my right foot and they want to operate on my left. Balls of my feet are tender and wide pedals spread out the pressure over more area . It's made a difference on my ability to ride
plumberroy is offline  
Old 12-21-23, 09:10 PM
  #1171  
Clyde1820
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,825

Bikes: 1996 Trek 970 ZX Single Track 2x11

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 614 Post(s)
Liked 568 Times in 431 Posts
Originally Posted by ShannonM
Those pedals are the business!!

What are they?
The Grand Cru Sabot pedals from Velo-Orange are what I use, which are similar to those. 100x100mm platform, rounded-end pins, even with reflectors if you want to install them. Pretty nice, having a big wide platform for the feet, for an around-town bike.

https://velo-orange.com/collections/...nt=50649149319
Clyde1820 is offline  
Old 12-22-23, 01:14 AM
  #1172  
George Abitbol
Newbie
 
George Abitbol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: Bottom of Alps
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 67 Times in 16 Posts
All these bikes are very beautiful. Mine :


This is a 1990 Peugeot Mojave Desert first made for the american market by the french brand but sold in France.
CrMo 4130, LX Deore. I added wtb Thickslick tyres, vintage Huret thumbshifters, Ergotec bar, BLB front rack and chinese copies of silicone Esi Grips.
George Abitbol is offline  
Likes For George Abitbol:
Old 12-22-23, 11:26 AM
  #1173  
daywood 
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Oregon
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 256 Times in 97 Posts
Originally Posted by cooperryder
My next project... finished stripping the rough white paint off today.

Frame is a 1987 Schwinn LeTour.

Build up coming soon.

No paint does give one an idea of the frame builder's brazing skills.
I like that look at the frame joints, too. I recently stripped my ‘78 Free Spirit frame to repaint it. I think it was made by Murray and it is not a thing of beauty. I filed off many globs of brazing metal near the joints and there was a rivet installed on the bottom side of a couple of the joints—maybe to hold the pieces in place for brazing? It has sentimental value or it probably wouldn’t have been worth the time to clean it up. With some filing, some Bondo, and new paint, it at least no longer looks like it rolled off the same production line as tricycles.

I’ve lately found myself wandering the local craigslist for lugged Schwinn projects of similar vintage to the one you’re working on, so I look forward to seeing what you have in mind for yours. Another part of the fun of that is asking my wife things like, “Do you think Seattle is too far to drive for this used bike?” Priceless.
daywood is offline  
Old 12-22-23, 05:29 PM
  #1174  
cooperryder
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
cooperryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dallas / Ft Worth
Posts: 1,164
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked 1,514 Times in 410 Posts
Originally Posted by daywood

“Do you think Seattle is too far to drive for this used bike?” Priceless.
That is funny daywood.

I started the build of the LeTour yesterday afternoon and just kept going today until I finished it early this afternoon and then went for a 6 mile test ride.

I like how it rides and how the raw finish looks.

It's the 3rd time I've built up a bike with a raw finish.

I found you can minimize rust by spraying the frame and fork thoroughly with wd-40 every 6 weeks or so.

There are a few tweaks I'll do to it soon but overall the ride feels very good.
I'll go with thumb shifters most likely.

These Letours of this era accept a decent size tire.
The front is a 700x35 but the back has a 700x42 now but it barely squeezes in there.

I'll probably go with a 38.

I measured the chainstays at 45cm with the wheel all the way back in the slot and the wheelbase at 106cm.

​​​​​​That's not far off to what some dedicated tourers of this era measure.

I didn't have to buy anything for this build.

I have a pretty deep parts stash with mostly mid range stuff .. nothing fancy or high end but decent and serviceable stuff.

​​​If I decide I really want to keep it I might have it powdercoated but then again that raw finish is cool I think.

Bikes are fun!







Last edited by cooperryder; 01-13-24 at 03:37 PM.
cooperryder is offline  
Likes For cooperryder:
Old 12-22-23, 06:03 PM
  #1175  
daywood 
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Oregon
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 256 Times in 97 Posts
Originally Posted by cooperryder
That is funny daywood.

I started the build of the LeTour yesterday afternoon and just kept going today until I finished it early this afternoon and then went for a 6 mile test ride.

I like how it rides and how the raw finish looks.

It's the 3rd time I've built up a bike with a raw finish.

I found you can minimize rust by spraying the frame and fork thoroughly with wd-40 every 6 weeks or so.

There are a few tweaks I'll do to it soon but overall the ride feels very good.
I'll go with thumb shifters most likely.

These Letours of this era accept a decent size tire.
The front is a 700x35 but the back has a 700x42 now but it barely squeezes in there.

I'll probably go with a 38.

I measured the chainstays at 45cm with the wheel all the way back in the slot and the wheelbase at 106cm.

​​​​​​That's not far off to what some dedicated tourers of this era measure.

I didn't have to buy anything for this build.

I have a pretty deep parts stash with mostly mid range stuff .. nothing fancy or high end but decent and serviceable stuff.

​​​If I decide I really want to keep it I might have it powdercoated but then again that raw finish is it's cool I think.

Bikes are fun!
Yes they are! I thought you were going to repaint it but I really like what you did with the raw finish look. Interesting idea to oil it to stave off rust. And dang. I was looking for a lugged frame to try a new two-tone paint scheme on, but now I may have to find a second one to try the raw look on . . .
daywood is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.