Loaded Touring Bike Lower Gear Ratio - Bike Build Advice
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Loaded Touring Bike with Low Gear Ratio - Bike Build Advice
Hello,
I have a 2015 Raleigh Clubman which has served me very well for commuting and exercise purposes. It has a Shimano Tiagra 4700 2x10 speed setup with 50/34 up front and I believe 12-30 in the rear. I have done a couple of small tours on it and have found the gear ratio to be too high for loaded travel on steep hills (I live in BC Canada and there are many hills / mountains to contend with).
I am currently kicking around various options for getting a lower gear ratio to make this bike more suitable for loaded touring. I definitely want to avoid buying all of these components and have them not be compatible with each other or perform as expected so I would really appreciate any insight or advice anyone can give me.
Here is my proposed setup thus far:
This setup is partially based on the specs for the 2020 Salsa Marrakesh. It is also similar to the Trek 520 (this one uses the Sora front derailleur instead of an MTB FD). I figure if it works on 'factory bikes' it should work for me right?
1. Shimano Sora STI Shifters (Road) (3x9) - I would really like to keep integrated shifters in my setup as I find them very convenient and will continue to use this bike for fitness / commuting purposes in addition to touring.
2. Shimano Deore Crankset (MTB) (3x9) (44x32x22)
3. Shimano Deore or Alivio Front Derailleur (compatible with crankset)
4. Jtek Shiftmate 7 (to allow compatibility between road shifters and MTB front derailleur)
Is this necessary? Salsa doesn't use one.
One idea I have toyed with is arranging the bottom bracket spacers to push the crankset to the left and thus more closely match the 45mm chainline of a road crankset.
5. Shimano Deore or Alivio Rear Derailleur (9 speed) (MTB)
From what I have read there should be no issues with using the Sora 9 speed shifter with a 9 speed MTB derailleur.
6. Shimano 9 Speed Cassette (11-34)
Please feel free to criticize or endorse my current plan and/or suggest completely new options.
My main concern is the compatibility between the Sora shifter and front derailleur. I know that going to bar end shifters (Microshift) would definitley simplify things and be pretty much guaranteed to work but as I say above, I really do like the integrated shifters and hope that I can continue to use them.
Thanks!
Alan
I have a 2015 Raleigh Clubman which has served me very well for commuting and exercise purposes. It has a Shimano Tiagra 4700 2x10 speed setup with 50/34 up front and I believe 12-30 in the rear. I have done a couple of small tours on it and have found the gear ratio to be too high for loaded travel on steep hills (I live in BC Canada and there are many hills / mountains to contend with).
I am currently kicking around various options for getting a lower gear ratio to make this bike more suitable for loaded touring. I definitely want to avoid buying all of these components and have them not be compatible with each other or perform as expected so I would really appreciate any insight or advice anyone can give me.
Here is my proposed setup thus far:
This setup is partially based on the specs for the 2020 Salsa Marrakesh. It is also similar to the Trek 520 (this one uses the Sora front derailleur instead of an MTB FD). I figure if it works on 'factory bikes' it should work for me right?
1. Shimano Sora STI Shifters (Road) (3x9) - I would really like to keep integrated shifters in my setup as I find them very convenient and will continue to use this bike for fitness / commuting purposes in addition to touring.
2. Shimano Deore Crankset (MTB) (3x9) (44x32x22)
3. Shimano Deore or Alivio Front Derailleur (compatible with crankset)
4. Jtek Shiftmate 7 (to allow compatibility between road shifters and MTB front derailleur)
Is this necessary? Salsa doesn't use one.
One idea I have toyed with is arranging the bottom bracket spacers to push the crankset to the left and thus more closely match the 45mm chainline of a road crankset.
5. Shimano Deore or Alivio Rear Derailleur (9 speed) (MTB)
From what I have read there should be no issues with using the Sora 9 speed shifter with a 9 speed MTB derailleur.
6. Shimano 9 Speed Cassette (11-34)
Please feel free to criticize or endorse my current plan and/or suggest completely new options.
My main concern is the compatibility between the Sora shifter and front derailleur. I know that going to bar end shifters (Microshift) would definitley simplify things and be pretty much guaranteed to work but as I say above, I really do like the integrated shifters and hope that I can continue to use them.
Thanks!
Alan
Last edited by altbike; 05-13-20 at 05:31 PM.
#2
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You're pretty close to replicating the Trek 520s drivetrain there. You shouldn't need the shiftmate.
I was looking at this a bit and it seems to get MTB crankset and gearing with brifters you need to stick in the 9 speed world. The right shiftmate might allow a 10 speed arrangement to work but the companies offer 10 speed only seem interested in going for bar-end shifters.
The 520 uses a Sora front derailleur rather than a MTB derailleur but maybe the MTB derailleur is fine there.
I was looking at this a bit and it seems to get MTB crankset and gearing with brifters you need to stick in the 9 speed world. The right shiftmate might allow a 10 speed arrangement to work but the companies offer 10 speed only seem interested in going for bar-end shifters.
The 520 uses a Sora front derailleur rather than a MTB derailleur but maybe the MTB derailleur is fine there.
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You're pretty close to replicating the Trek 520s drivetrain there. You shouldn't need the shiftmate.
I was looking at this a bit and it seems to get MTB crankset and gearing with brifters you need to stick in the 9 speed world. The right shiftmate might allow a 10 speed arrangement to work but the companies offer 10 speed only seem interested in going for bar-end shifters.
The 520 uses a Sora front derailleur rather than a MTB derailleur but maybe the MTB derailleur is fine there.
I was looking at this a bit and it seems to get MTB crankset and gearing with brifters you need to stick in the 9 speed world. The right shiftmate might allow a 10 speed arrangement to work but the companies offer 10 speed only seem interested in going for bar-end shifters.
The 520 uses a Sora front derailleur rather than a MTB derailleur but maybe the MTB derailleur is fine there.
If I order all of the parts and end up needing the shiftmate I could be waiting a few weeks for that to arrive in the mail. This is still better than the worst case scenario where one or more components simply do not work and I'm left trying to sell them on craigslist. The touring market (at least those of use who are beginner builders) is left in the dark when putting their rigs together and its tough to go ahead and order all of these parts on a hunch.
I still feel that the only question mark in my setup is the integration between the sora shifter and the mtb front derailleur. The other possibility is the integration between the sora shifter + sora front derailleur and an MTB crankset. If I go with a friction shifter setup (Microshift) this problem is removed but I'd still really love to keep the brifters (hence this post).
I'm hoping someone on this forum who has direct experience with a similar setup can chime in and give me the confidence to proceed with the sora brifters.
Thanks again for your input Wiggle, I truly appreciate it.
-Alan
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Here is an outside-the-box idea for ya.
If your crank bolt pattern works with this - you can get a Mountain Tamer (link below) that adds a smaller chain ring. I have this set up on my touring bike making a triple in to a quad. I forget what the tooth count is that I am using now, I want to say maybe 22-24. I was using the tiny 17t one for a few years. I rarely ever use the "granny gear" and the jump was astronomical from the small normal chain ring to the 17t, so this past winter I put the bigger of the rings on. Truth be told - without panniers on the front I've flipped backwards trying to get up some steep hills.
If you can't tell, I'd much rather have too many gears than not enough. There is a point, though, of diminishing returns. I neglected to do a terrain analysis of a trip I did in November. There was a significant climb through a switch back on the route. I could see it from a ways away, but there weren't any other roads within reasonable riding distance (and not without their own hills) from where I was so I went for it. Even though I had the gearing, I didn't have the energy to blast up the whole hill so I stopped. The hill was so steep I could not get back on the bike so I had to walk up it - very slowly with a heavy bike + gear.
Mountain Tamer Triple adapter - LOWER GEARS for bikes of all kinds
If your crank bolt pattern works with this - you can get a Mountain Tamer (link below) that adds a smaller chain ring. I have this set up on my touring bike making a triple in to a quad. I forget what the tooth count is that I am using now, I want to say maybe 22-24. I was using the tiny 17t one for a few years. I rarely ever use the "granny gear" and the jump was astronomical from the small normal chain ring to the 17t, so this past winter I put the bigger of the rings on. Truth be told - without panniers on the front I've flipped backwards trying to get up some steep hills.
If you can't tell, I'd much rather have too many gears than not enough. There is a point, though, of diminishing returns. I neglected to do a terrain analysis of a trip I did in November. There was a significant climb through a switch back on the route. I could see it from a ways away, but there weren't any other roads within reasonable riding distance (and not without their own hills) from where I was so I went for it. Even though I had the gearing, I didn't have the energy to blast up the whole hill so I stopped. The hill was so steep I could not get back on the bike so I had to walk up it - very slowly with a heavy bike + gear.
Mountain Tamer Triple adapter - LOWER GEARS for bikes of all kinds
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Here is an outside-the-box idea for ya.
If your crank bolt pattern works with this - you can get a Mountain Tamer (link below) that adds a smaller chain ring. I have this set up on my touring bike making a triple in to a quad. I forget what the tooth count is that I am using now, I want to say maybe 22-24. I was using the tiny 17t one for a few years. I rarely ever use the "granny gear" and the jump was astronomical from the small normal chain ring to the 17t, so this past winter I put the bigger of the rings on. Truth be told - without panniers on the front I've flipped backwards trying to get up some steep hills.
If you can't tell, I'd much rather have too many gears than not enough. There is a point, though, of diminishing returns. I neglected to do a terrain analysis of a trip I did in November. There was a significant climb through a switch back on the route. I could see it from a ways away, but there weren't any other roads within reasonable riding distance (and not without their own hills) from where I was so I went for it. Even though I had the gearing, I didn't have the energy to blast up the whole hill so I stopped. The hill was so steep I could not get back on the bike so I had to walk up it - very slowly with a heavy bike + gear.
If your crank bolt pattern works with this - you can get a Mountain Tamer (link below) that adds a smaller chain ring. I have this set up on my touring bike making a triple in to a quad. I forget what the tooth count is that I am using now, I want to say maybe 22-24. I was using the tiny 17t one for a few years. I rarely ever use the "granny gear" and the jump was astronomical from the small normal chain ring to the 17t, so this past winter I put the bigger of the rings on. Truth be told - without panniers on the front I've flipped backwards trying to get up some steep hills.
If you can't tell, I'd much rather have too many gears than not enough. There is a point, though, of diminishing returns. I neglected to do a terrain analysis of a trip I did in November. There was a significant climb through a switch back on the route. I could see it from a ways away, but there weren't any other roads within reasonable riding distance (and not without their own hills) from where I was so I went for it. Even though I had the gearing, I didn't have the energy to blast up the whole hill so I stopped. The hill was so steep I could not get back on the bike so I had to walk up it - very slowly with a heavy bike + gear.
Can you explain to me how this works? I currently have a tiagra 2x10 setup. Could this be integrated into that? If so, I am all for it because as you can see from my earlier post I'm basically considering replacing my whole drivetrain which aint cheap. Also, does this interfere with the capacity spec of the rear derailleur (which I'm finding can be quite restrictive)?
Last edited by altbike; 05-13-20 at 11:09 PM.
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You may find some information on the thread below (link at the bottom of my post) I had here a few years back on setting this up. Photobucket (host site for pictures) changed their formatting and I have not kept up with it, but the pictures are still mostly there (photbucket tag across them now).
As to the alignment - that is tricky. To be honest, I don't have quite the range of adjustment in my FD to get to the largest chain ring. I haven't worried about it because I rarely ever used it before anyway. If I was to be in an area where that would be useful I would have to adjust the cable down at the FD to get the shifter range back to cover that large ring (and loose the tiny one). Oddly enough - the times I could use the large chain ring are also the times I end up needing the tiny one. Funny how that works. What goes down must go up...
Your FD might have a limit screw on it to set the "range" of shifting. This is the first thing I would look in to seeing if you can adjust. If so - it is possible you would have the range in what you have. Though, it may still be tricky (like mine only getting 3 of the 4 rings at a time in how I have it set up).
The RD shouldn't matter much.
I did change the bottom bracket out. I had spacers in there at first, but opted to get the crank set out further with a new BB.
People will tell you chain line matters at different rates. For the normal gears I'm in I haven't noticed any issues caused by chain line. I adjust my FD to limit chain rub depending on where in the cassette I am, but that is "normal" to me and I don't consider the chain rubbing the (movable) FD cage a problem since it is a quick tweak of the shifter to bump it one way or the other.
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...ainring-3.html
As to the alignment - that is tricky. To be honest, I don't have quite the range of adjustment in my FD to get to the largest chain ring. I haven't worried about it because I rarely ever used it before anyway. If I was to be in an area where that would be useful I would have to adjust the cable down at the FD to get the shifter range back to cover that large ring (and loose the tiny one). Oddly enough - the times I could use the large chain ring are also the times I end up needing the tiny one. Funny how that works. What goes down must go up...
Your FD might have a limit screw on it to set the "range" of shifting. This is the first thing I would look in to seeing if you can adjust. If so - it is possible you would have the range in what you have. Though, it may still be tricky (like mine only getting 3 of the 4 rings at a time in how I have it set up).
The RD shouldn't matter much.
I did change the bottom bracket out. I had spacers in there at first, but opted to get the crank set out further with a new BB.
People will tell you chain line matters at different rates. For the normal gears I'm in I haven't noticed any issues caused by chain line. I adjust my FD to limit chain rub depending on where in the cassette I am, but that is "normal" to me and I don't consider the chain rubbing the (movable) FD cage a problem since it is a quick tweak of the shifter to bump it one way or the other.
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...ainring-3.html
#7
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If you're experimenting with cranksets that are potentially difficult to index, you could always stick with integrated shifting for the rear while throwing a bar-end (or other) friction shifter at the FD.
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Wait, what's wrong with the 30-speed 105 and Ultegra brifters, and 3x cranks? I have that setup on my Vaya touring setup, and it works great. The stock 6703 triple crank came with a too-big 30t granny on 94mm BCD (meaning you can't go smaller). I replaced it with the 6603 crankset with 74mm BCD so you can go way down (24t running happily on mine, with 39 and 50). There's an equivalent 105 (5603?) and even Dura-Ace triple (7703?) from the same era. I put on a XT long cage derailleur (9-spd so same cable ratio as 10-sp brifters) but that may have been overkill, it seems to have plenty of cage extension left.
12-30 10-sp cassette with 24-39-50 is a really sweet setup - close ratios in back and well-matched for loaded climbing / level and rolling / descending. I did install a chain catcher on the advice of the internet - I mainly found it to wiggle out of place, catch an edge on the chain and twist, and cause a very difficult jam. Took it off and haven't missed it. Probably just needed a rubber shim under it, but again it hasn't seemed necessary.
If tracking down used or NOS 3x10 components and swapping out drivetrain is too much, honestly I could make do with the triple crank with 24 and 39, and a bashguard in the outer spot. Then just replace the crank (possibly BB too) and ride away with your 4700 shifters in 2x10 mode. Someday down the road maybe you find the left shifter and install the third ring.
12-30 10-sp cassette with 24-39-50 is a really sweet setup - close ratios in back and well-matched for loaded climbing / level and rolling / descending. I did install a chain catcher on the advice of the internet - I mainly found it to wiggle out of place, catch an edge on the chain and twist, and cause a very difficult jam. Took it off and haven't missed it. Probably just needed a rubber shim under it, but again it hasn't seemed necessary.
If tracking down used or NOS 3x10 components and swapping out drivetrain is too much, honestly I could make do with the triple crank with 24 and 39, and a bashguard in the outer spot. Then just replace the crank (possibly BB too) and ride away with your 4700 shifters in 2x10 mode. Someday down the road maybe you find the left shifter and install the third ring.
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Maybe another way to skin the cat. Get one of the new 10 speed GRX rear derailleurs, a road link (just in case) and a Sunrace 11-40T cassette. New Cranks, GRX 2 x 10 gets you 46-30 Front. That should get you a granny close to what you need in BC, though last time I was there I was running a 20T chain ring and 34T rear.
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I have nothing against an 8 or 9 speed system and I have triples on most of my bikes. So I completely understand your logic. Most of my tours have been on a 3X8 system.
But. you are proposing a major change. Do you really want to chuck your entire drive train and replace it?
I have a road bike with a 2X10 system similar to yours. My crank is also a 50/34 compact double. Like you, I was thinking that it would be nice if I had lower gears. But my system is Campy, not Shimano so the parts are not compatible with each other.
And one option I considered, and am still considering is getting a smaller double crank. A 46/30 or a 42/26 double should work with my shifter just fine and front derailleur should work too. I would lose some of the higher gears and gain lower gears. In my case I would need a different bottom bracket too, not sure about your Shimano system what is available.
I am just throwing that out for discussion and consideration, you would keep most of the parts of your existing drive train that you currently have.
If you like this idea, look at the gearing that you would get in the end, as you might want to keep some of those higher gears, in which case this might not be a good plan.
In my case, my front derailleur is clamped around the seat tube. But some road bikes have a different kind of mount.
But. you are proposing a major change. Do you really want to chuck your entire drive train and replace it?
I have a road bike with a 2X10 system similar to yours. My crank is also a 50/34 compact double. Like you, I was thinking that it would be nice if I had lower gears. But my system is Campy, not Shimano so the parts are not compatible with each other.
And one option I considered, and am still considering is getting a smaller double crank. A 46/30 or a 42/26 double should work with my shifter just fine and front derailleur should work too. I would lose some of the higher gears and gain lower gears. In my case I would need a different bottom bracket too, not sure about your Shimano system what is available.
I am just throwing that out for discussion and consideration, you would keep most of the parts of your existing drive train that you currently have.
If you like this idea, look at the gearing that you would get in the end, as you might want to keep some of those higher gears, in which case this might not be a good plan.
In my case, my front derailleur is clamped around the seat tube. But some road bikes have a different kind of mount.
#11
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hey Mr Alt (or Mrs)
I totally get the wanting lower gearing, and amongst my bikes is a touring bike that has a mtb crank like you are thinking of, and they work great for loaded touring in mountains....
BUT
you are going to have to start adding up the costs, including labour, and you might find that it adds up---now I dont know your Raleigh, but do take into consideration that if its not made for touring, you'll still have a frame that may not have the ability to take a front rack and panniers, short chainstays, and generally a frame not made/ideal for carrying more luggage if you get into that
I wonder that after looking at a realistic assessment of the final costs involved, it might be more effective to look for a good used touring bike that will have all the advantages of a touring bike designed for carrying panniers
re the actual technical aspects of your ideas. I believe most are realistic, and sora sti do work with certain fd's , but again, you're going to have to get reliable info on which fd to get and if it will go onto your frame etc
I know good quality used touring bikes are not common and they tend to get snapped up quickly, at least they do here in Montreal, and buying used can be an issue if you know nothing of assessing bike stuff to pick up on any problems....
alivio triples as far as i know, still use square taper bb's, so you could get a bb that has the right spindle length to work with the chainline issue, but fd choice may be an issue depending on how your existing frame is for the fd, clamp or braze on thing.
good luck getting proper info
and again, you are certainly going in the right direction wanting lower gearing, it makes touring so much more enjoyable.
I totally get the wanting lower gearing, and amongst my bikes is a touring bike that has a mtb crank like you are thinking of, and they work great for loaded touring in mountains....
BUT
you are going to have to start adding up the costs, including labour, and you might find that it adds up---now I dont know your Raleigh, but do take into consideration that if its not made for touring, you'll still have a frame that may not have the ability to take a front rack and panniers, short chainstays, and generally a frame not made/ideal for carrying more luggage if you get into that
I wonder that after looking at a realistic assessment of the final costs involved, it might be more effective to look for a good used touring bike that will have all the advantages of a touring bike designed for carrying panniers
re the actual technical aspects of your ideas. I believe most are realistic, and sora sti do work with certain fd's , but again, you're going to have to get reliable info on which fd to get and if it will go onto your frame etc
I know good quality used touring bikes are not common and they tend to get snapped up quickly, at least they do here in Montreal, and buying used can be an issue if you know nothing of assessing bike stuff to pick up on any problems....
alivio triples as far as i know, still use square taper bb's, so you could get a bb that has the right spindle length to work with the chainline issue, but fd choice may be an issue depending on how your existing frame is for the fd, clamp or braze on thing.
good luck getting proper info
and again, you are certainly going in the right direction wanting lower gearing, it makes touring so much more enjoyable.
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I totally get the wanting lower gearing, and amongst my bikes is a touring bike that has a mtb crank like you are thinking of, and they work great for loaded touring in mountains....
BUT
you are going to have to start adding up the costs, including labour, and you might find that it adds up---now I dont know your Raleigh, but do take into consideration that if its not made for touring, you'll still have a frame that may not have the ability to take a front rack and panniers, short chainstays, and generally a frame not made/ideal for carrying more luggage if you get into that
I wonder that after looking at a realistic assessment of the final costs involved, it might be more effective to look for a good used touring bike that will have all the advantages of a touring bike designed for carrying panniers
BUT
you are going to have to start adding up the costs, including labour, and you might find that it adds up---now I dont know your Raleigh, but do take into consideration that if its not made for touring, you'll still have a frame that may not have the ability to take a front rack and panniers, short chainstays, and generally a frame not made/ideal for carrying more luggage if you get into that
I wonder that after looking at a realistic assessment of the final costs involved, it might be more effective to look for a good used touring bike that will have all the advantages of a touring bike designed for carrying panniers
In terms of cost I'm not too concerned with it (although I'm not being silly about it). I'll be doing all the work myself because I enjoy doing that sort of thing and also because I think it will be good preparation for fixing issues out on the road when that happens. I have added up all of the costs of parts and that combined with my bikes original cost will still be far less than buying a surly or salsa touring bike (plus I've already gotten 5 years of good use out of the bike). The other thing about these factory touring bikes is that they often don't have the gearing quite as low as I would like it so I might have to make a few modifications to these bikes as well.
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Yes, this might be the most reasonable approach. It basically eliminates the major question mark of the build and using a bar end shifter for the FD would probably be manageable. I wonder if I can buy individual Microshift shifters.
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Some bike shops have a bin or bucket of vintage used parts that they did not want to throw away that they will sell for a cheap price.
Does your bike have a downtube shifter boss or not, some newer bikes don't.
#15
Senior Member
arent there sora triples still being sold now, front derailleurs I mean? I would think that this would work fine, check out the trek 520 that has 9 spd sti on it I think.
My tiagra 9 spd sti and tiagra triple fd works great, and the newer sora sti shifters seem very much to be a trickle down of the old 9 spd tiagra, and they work very nicely. I bought and put a pair of newer paddle sora sti shifters on my wifes bike a few years ago, and they feel rather nice. Way better than the thumb shifter 8 and 9 spd soras imo, having used both now.
My tiagra 9 spd sti and tiagra triple fd works great, and the newer sora sti shifters seem very much to be a trickle down of the old 9 spd tiagra, and they work very nicely. I bought and put a pair of newer paddle sora sti shifters on my wifes bike a few years ago, and they feel rather nice. Way better than the thumb shifter 8 and 9 spd soras imo, having used both now.
#16
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Hello,
I have a 2015 Raleigh Clubman which has served me very well for commuting and exercise purposes. It has a Shimano Tiagra 4700 2x10 speed setup with 50/34 up front and I believe 12-30 in the rear. I have done a couple of small tours on it and have found the gear ratio to be too high for loaded travel on steep hills (I live in BC Canada and there are many hills / mountains to contend with).
I am currently kicking around various options for getting a lower gear ratio to make this bike more suitable for loaded touring. I definitely want to avoid buying all of these components and have them not be compatible with each other or perform as expected so I would really appreciate any insight or advice anyone can give me.
Here is my proposed setup thus far:
This setup is partially based on the specs for the 2020 Salsa Marrakesh. It is also similar to the Trek 520 (this one uses the Sora front derailleur instead of an MTB FD). I figure if it works on 'factory bikes' it should work for me right?
1. Shimano Sora STI Shifters (Road) (3x9) - I would really like to keep integrated shifters in my setup as I find them very convenient and will continue to use this bike for fitness / commuting purposes in addition to touring.
2. Shimano Deore Crankset (MTB) (3x9) (44x32x22)
3. Shimano Deore or Alivio Front Derailleur (compatible with crankset)
4. Jtek Shiftmate 7 (to allow compatibility between road shifters and MTB front derailleur)
Is this necessary? Salsa doesn't use one.
One idea I have toyed with is arranging the bottom bracket spacers to push the crankset to the left and thus more closely match the 45mm chainline of a road crankset.
5. Shimano Deore or Alivio Rear Derailleur (9 speed) (MTB)
From what I have read there should be no issues with using the Sora 9 speed shifter with a 9 speed MTB derailleur.
6. Shimano 9 Speed Cassette (11-34)
Please feel free to criticize or endorse my current plan and/or suggest completely new options.
My main concern is the compatibility between the Sora shifter and front derailleur. I know that going to bar end shifters (Microshift) would definitley simplify things and be pretty much guaranteed to work but as I say above, I really do like the integrated shifters and hope that I can continue to use them.
Thanks!
Alan
I have a 2015 Raleigh Clubman which has served me very well for commuting and exercise purposes. It has a Shimano Tiagra 4700 2x10 speed setup with 50/34 up front and I believe 12-30 in the rear. I have done a couple of small tours on it and have found the gear ratio to be too high for loaded travel on steep hills (I live in BC Canada and there are many hills / mountains to contend with).
I am currently kicking around various options for getting a lower gear ratio to make this bike more suitable for loaded touring. I definitely want to avoid buying all of these components and have them not be compatible with each other or perform as expected so I would really appreciate any insight or advice anyone can give me.
Here is my proposed setup thus far:
This setup is partially based on the specs for the 2020 Salsa Marrakesh. It is also similar to the Trek 520 (this one uses the Sora front derailleur instead of an MTB FD). I figure if it works on 'factory bikes' it should work for me right?
1. Shimano Sora STI Shifters (Road) (3x9) - I would really like to keep integrated shifters in my setup as I find them very convenient and will continue to use this bike for fitness / commuting purposes in addition to touring.
2. Shimano Deore Crankset (MTB) (3x9) (44x32x22)
3. Shimano Deore or Alivio Front Derailleur (compatible with crankset)
4. Jtek Shiftmate 7 (to allow compatibility between road shifters and MTB front derailleur)
Is this necessary? Salsa doesn't use one.
One idea I have toyed with is arranging the bottom bracket spacers to push the crankset to the left and thus more closely match the 45mm chainline of a road crankset.
5. Shimano Deore or Alivio Rear Derailleur (9 speed) (MTB)
From what I have read there should be no issues with using the Sora 9 speed shifter with a 9 speed MTB derailleur.
6. Shimano 9 Speed Cassette (11-34)
Please feel free to criticize or endorse my current plan and/or suggest completely new options.
My main concern is the compatibility between the Sora shifter and front derailleur. I know that going to bar end shifters (Microshift) would definitley simplify things and be pretty much guaranteed to work but as I say above, I really do like the integrated shifters and hope that I can continue to use them.
Thanks!
Alan
I also would not suggest the Mountain Tamer as it introduces more problems. The first one is that the Tamer will probably not work on the posts that the Deore crank uses for the low gear. You need a flat mount.
But all is not lost. You can put a 20 tooth inner ring on the Deore. This video
tells you how to do it. It’s fairly simple and easy. I’ve done the same procedure on 3 or 4 external bottom bracket cranks. This is my touring bike with a 20 tooth inner
Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr
Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr
I also have a 9 speed 11-36 cassette. I added a Wolf Tooth Road Link to the 8 speed derailer to increase the capacity so that it works with the 36 tooth cog. My gearing has a 753% range from 15 gear inches to 114inches. It all works flawlessly. I have similar set ups on mountain bikes as well.
__________________
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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Thanks for the detailed response!
My main reason for favoring the mountain front derailleur is the number of teeth (44-30-22) that I'm going with. As the Sora is designed to be used with 50 teeth wouldn't the size difference be too much? I can see that the Trek 520 uses the Sora but they have opted for the 48-36-26 crankset which is pretty close to 50. I also have a bit of a Plan B in place where if the Sora shifter does not work with the front derailleur I can always go to a friction bar end or downtube shifter. My thinking is that a mountain derailleur will be designed to work best with the 50mm chainline of a mountain crankset. Also Salsa Marrakesh Sora uses the Alivio front mountain derailleur in their setup which is basically the only difference between that drivetrain and the 520.
I Should also mention that 22 teeth is low enough for me. I don't really see the need for anything lower.
What is your setup on the front for your touring bike (shifter, front derailleur, crankset)?
I agree that you don’t need the Shiftmate but you can’t use the mountain front derailer. There’s no reason to use the mountain front derailer. The Sora front derailleur is actually a good front derailleur for the crank you want to use. It will have the least amount of hassles associated with it.
I Should also mention that 22 teeth is low enough for me. I don't really see the need for anything lower.
What is your setup on the front for your touring bike (shifter, front derailleur, crankset)?
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Yes, I just checked and I have the bosses on the downtube shifter. I think this is a good plan b for the front derailleur if the Sora shifter doesn't work for some reason.
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Thanks for the detailed response!
My main reason for favoring the mountain front derailleur is the number of teeth (44-30-22) that I'm going with. As the Sora is designed to be used with 50 teeth wouldn't the size difference be too much? I can see that the Trek 520 uses the Sora but they have opted for the 48-36-26 crankset which is pretty close to 50. I also have a bit of a Plan B in place where if the Sora shifter does not work with the front derailleur I can always go to a friction bar end or downtube shifter. My thinking is that a mountain derailleur will be designed to work best with the 50mm chainline of a mountain crankset. Also Salsa Marrakesh Sora uses the Alivio front mountain derailleur in their setup which is basically the only difference between that drivetrain and the 520.
I Should also mention that 22 teeth is low enough for me. I don't really see the need for anything lower.
What is your setup on the front for your touring bike (shifter, front derailleur, crankset)?
My main reason for favoring the mountain front derailleur is the number of teeth (44-30-22) that I'm going with. As the Sora is designed to be used with 50 teeth wouldn't the size difference be too much? I can see that the Trek 520 uses the Sora but they have opted for the 48-36-26 crankset which is pretty close to 50. I also have a bit of a Plan B in place where if the Sora shifter does not work with the front derailleur I can always go to a friction bar end or downtube shifter. My thinking is that a mountain derailleur will be designed to work best with the 50mm chainline of a mountain crankset. Also Salsa Marrakesh Sora uses the Alivio front mountain derailleur in their setup which is basically the only difference between that drivetrain and the 520.
I Should also mention that 22 teeth is low enough for me. I don't really see the need for anything lower.
What is your setup on the front for your touring bike (shifter, front derailleur, crankset)?
And don’t get too hung up on the chainline while you are at it. The 50 mm chainline is so that the crank clears the chainstay on mountain bikes that need the extra width for wider tires. But it’s adjustable, especially with external bearing cranks. Remove or add spacers as needed to get the chainline to work with whatever derailer you choose. Keep it as simple as you can. I’d try the road derailer first. If it doesn’t work you can go a different route. Front derailers are cheap and, for Shimano, the cheaper ones are actually their better ones for both road and mountain.
I’m use 105 triples shifters (9 speed) with an Hollowtech II XT crank and the above (kind of) generic Shimano front derailer.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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And don’t get too hung up on the chainline while you are at it. The 50 mm chainline is so that the crank clears the chainstay on mountain bikes that need the extra width for wider tires. But it’s adjustable, especially with external bearing cranks. Remove or add spacers as needed to get the chainline to work with whatever derailer you choose.
I believe my setup choice will be:
Shimano Sora Shifters (3x9) ST-R3000, ST-R3030
Shimano Sora Front Derailluer (3x9) FD-R3020
Shimano Deore Crankset (44/32/22) FC-M590/1
Shimano Deore Bottom Bracket SM-BB52
Shimano Alivio Cassette (11-34T) CS-HG400-9
Shimano Alivio Rear Derailleur RD-M4000-SGS
Whenever possible I've checked the compatibility of all these components in the Simano Production Compatibility Information (except of course the Road/MTB combinations).
Also, I've checked that the Sora Shifters/Brake Levers will work with my current brakes (BR-R317) (which is a very important consideration).
This setup will be the same as the Trek 520 drivetrain with the exception of the crankset and the cassette. From what I can tell Trek is actually going outside of the specs of the derailleur in going with the 11-36T cassette. This combined with their crankset gives a total capacity of 47T while the rear derailleur is only rated for a capactiy of 45T. I think that 34T will be good for my granny gear and I can stay within the rated capacity of the derailleur.
Thanks to everyone who provided input. I'll try to add to this thread when I get the parts and let you know how it works out.
-Al
Last edited by altbike; 05-16-20 at 06:33 PM.
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#23
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hey altbike, I dont think anyone has asked you yet, but how many pounds of load do you realistically think you'll be carrying?
I ask because if you arent carrying that much, the one downside to a 44/32/22 is that you might find that you are shifting too often between the 32 and 44. My bike with this crankset is a 26in wheeled bike, so the gearing overall is lower (smaller wheel = lower gearing for the same teeth of chainrings and cassette, vs a larger wheel like your 700)
lightly loaded on flat terrain or even in hilly terrain, the other deore crankset of 48/36/26 is also a great option, and could be more enjoyable overall for riding when unloaded also. Its also fairly easy to change the 26 to smaller , like a 24, so it really comes down to how much weight you'll be carrying.
again though, as someone who has toured a lot with a 44/32/22 in mountainy terrain, it works great, but wanted to bring this up in case you say that you'll only be carrying 20lbs or something....and also plan to ride the bike unloaded most of the time (which frankly, as with all our bikes, is still the vast majority of the time)--because in my opinion, you'd be happier with the larger crankset
but maybe not, so chime in
I ask because if you arent carrying that much, the one downside to a 44/32/22 is that you might find that you are shifting too often between the 32 and 44. My bike with this crankset is a 26in wheeled bike, so the gearing overall is lower (smaller wheel = lower gearing for the same teeth of chainrings and cassette, vs a larger wheel like your 700)
lightly loaded on flat terrain or even in hilly terrain, the other deore crankset of 48/36/26 is also a great option, and could be more enjoyable overall for riding when unloaded also. Its also fairly easy to change the 26 to smaller , like a 24, so it really comes down to how much weight you'll be carrying.
again though, as someone who has toured a lot with a 44/32/22 in mountainy terrain, it works great, but wanted to bring this up in case you say that you'll only be carrying 20lbs or something....and also plan to ride the bike unloaded most of the time (which frankly, as with all our bikes, is still the vast majority of the time)--because in my opinion, you'd be happier with the larger crankset
but maybe not, so chime in
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hey altbike, I dont think anyone has asked you yet, but how many pounds of load do you realistically think you'll be carrying?
I ask because if you arent carrying that much, the one downside to a 44/32/22 is that you might find that you are shifting too often between the 32 and 44. My bike with this crankset is a 26in wheeled bike, so the gearing overall is lower (smaller wheel = lower gearing for the same teeth of chainrings and cassette, vs a larger wheel like your 700)
lightly loaded on flat terrain or even in hilly terrain, the other deore crankset of 48/36/26 is also a great option, and could be more enjoyable overall for riding when unloaded also. Its also fairly easy to change the 26 to smaller , like a 24, so it really comes down to how much weight you'll be carrying.
again though, as someone who has toured a lot with a 44/32/22 in mountainy terrain, it works great, but wanted to bring this up in case you say that you'll only be carrying 20lbs or something....and also plan to ride the bike unloaded most of the time (which frankly, as with all our bikes, is still the vast majority of the time)--because in my opinion, you'd be happier with the larger crankset
but maybe not, so chime in
I ask because if you arent carrying that much, the one downside to a 44/32/22 is that you might find that you are shifting too often between the 32 and 44. My bike with this crankset is a 26in wheeled bike, so the gearing overall is lower (smaller wheel = lower gearing for the same teeth of chainrings and cassette, vs a larger wheel like your 700)
lightly loaded on flat terrain or even in hilly terrain, the other deore crankset of 48/36/26 is also a great option, and could be more enjoyable overall for riding when unloaded also. Its also fairly easy to change the 26 to smaller , like a 24, so it really comes down to how much weight you'll be carrying.
again though, as someone who has toured a lot with a 44/32/22 in mountainy terrain, it works great, but wanted to bring this up in case you say that you'll only be carrying 20lbs or something....and also plan to ride the bike unloaded most of the time (which frankly, as with all our bikes, is still the vast majority of the time)--because in my opinion, you'd be happier with the larger crankset
but maybe not, so chime in
Also, I could always get the different chain rings (48-36-26). This is a bit of an expensive proposition but perhaps in a year or so as the memory of this upcoming purchase fades it won't hurt so much to make this investment. I think having this option would be good for throwing on for daily use as well as for flatter tours and should make for a more versatile setup.
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My derailleur touring bikes have a 11/32 cassette and the triple crank is half step plus granny of 46/42/24.
So, my lowest gear of chainring 24 and rear sprocket of 32 is a bit higher than your planned lowest gear. There were times I would have liked to have a lower low gear.
Note that I have chainrings of 42 and 46, your 44 will be right in the middle, so I think that a 44 big ring should do ok. There may be some long shallow downhills where you are in your highest gear and wanted one a bit higher, but overall I think the 44/32/22 should be ok with the kind of load you are talking about with a 11/34 cassette.
So, my lowest gear of chainring 24 and rear sprocket of 32 is a bit higher than your planned lowest gear. There were times I would have liked to have a lower low gear.
Note that I have chainrings of 42 and 46, your 44 will be right in the middle, so I think that a 44 big ring should do ok. There may be some long shallow downhills where you are in your highest gear and wanted one a bit higher, but overall I think the 44/32/22 should be ok with the kind of load you are talking about with a 11/34 cassette.