Chains submerged in Diesel fuel
08-27-23, 09:32 AM
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I've read of and seen vids of pro Euro team mechanics using diesel and paint brushes to service the rider's bikes. Andy
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08-27-23, 09:36 AM
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Yes, as I noted in Post 4 ("Diesel fuel is basically kerosene..."). I just wanted to be (perhaps a bit too) specific to pre-empt the flames. 
I'd say, for the purposes of chain cleaning, Diesel fuel is essentially the same... and much safer than gasoline!
I'd say, for the purposes of chain cleaning, Diesel fuel is essentially the same... and much safer than gasoline!
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08-27-23, 12:19 PM
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so.. you're reusing a solvent loaded with previous filth and conntaminants, and that is HYGROSCOPIC (attracts Water), to "clean a chain".
got it.
thanks for clarifying.
i use mineral spirits(AKA: Paint thinner) for grease removal... it's a much more effective cleaner, and the smell is a lot easier to rid from my area too.
PS.. "shaking" is mechanical cleaning
and i hope you're using a plastic container.. i've seen the bottom break out of a glass jar from "shaking" bearings in solvent.
got it.
thanks for clarifying.
i use mineral spirits(AKA: Paint thinner) for grease removal... it's a much more effective cleaner, and the smell is a lot easier to rid from my area too.
PS.. "shaking" is mechanical cleaning
and i hope you're using a plastic container.. i've seen the bottom break out of a glass jar from "shaking" bearings in solvent.
The water in Diesel fuel is from water condensing on the side of the tank.
Water is not attracted to diesel fuel.
08-27-23, 12:20 PM
#29
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According to some of the above posts, it looks that Diesel is not corrosive. Point taken, thanks!
Just to avoid misunderstandings: it is not about using large tanks and quantities of Diesel. It is only about shaking and manipulating small quantities of 200-300 grams from one PET to another, once at 1-3 months (Winter included). Around 20-30 grams are lost every time, together with grit extracted from the chain. It is nothing special and it is not dirty at all, given the simplicity of the process and the small quantities involved. I started to use Diesel because it was easily available and the cost of a few hundred grams wasted per year is not material.
Since “mineral spirit” is suggested here as a better alternative than Diesel, then: How do I identify “Mineral spirit” on the EU market (I assume it is marketed under another name) and what would be its cost?
Just to avoid misunderstandings: it is not about using large tanks and quantities of Diesel. It is only about shaking and manipulating small quantities of 200-300 grams from one PET to another, once at 1-3 months (Winter included). Around 20-30 grams are lost every time, together with grit extracted from the chain. It is nothing special and it is not dirty at all, given the simplicity of the process and the small quantities involved. I started to use Diesel because it was easily available and the cost of a few hundred grams wasted per year is not material.
Since “mineral spirit” is suggested here as a better alternative than Diesel, then: How do I identify “Mineral spirit” on the EU market (I assume it is marketed under another name) and what would be its cost?
08-27-23, 12:36 PM
#30
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What you do not realize is that diesel is a very very dirty fuel with millions of particles in each gallon. Diesel fuel filters remove 98.7% of the particles which still lets 240,000 particles per gallon to go into the fuel injection system of the engine which is why the fuel injectors are have a much shorter life than with engines burning gasoline.
08-27-23, 12:47 PM
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According to some of the above posts, it looks that Diesel is not corrosive. Point taken, thanks!
Since “mineral spirit” is suggested here as a better alternative than Diesel, then: How do I identify “Mineral spirit” on the EU market (I assume it is marketed under another name) and what would be its cost?
Since “mineral spirit” is suggested here as a better alternative than Diesel, then: How do I identify “Mineral spirit” on the EU market (I assume it is marketed under another name) and what would be its cost?
the package label will, typically,also include (somewhere) "made with Mineral Spirits"
08-27-23, 12:52 PM
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What you do not realize is that diesel is a very very dirty fuel with millions of particles in each gallon. Diesel fuel filters remove 98.7% of the particles which still lets 240,000 particles per gallon to go into the fuel injection system of the engine which is why the fuel injectors are have a much shorter life than with engines burning gasoline.
But does this relate to the simple process of cleaning a bike chain? I get 9000 km of riding with one chain with this method, and I replace the chain before reaching 0.075 mm on caliber. maybe I could get around 15000 km with one chain if I used it up to 0.1 mm, but I preferred earlier replacement, to save the cassette and chain rings. My oldest cassette has now 28.000 km and it shoes no signs being worn; I guess it will largely exceed 35.000. Overall, the process seems to give very good results.
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08-27-23, 12:57 PM
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08-27-23, 01:03 PM
#35
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It takes more work, it is somehow dirtier and I think it does not remove too much grit inside the rollers. Leaving the chain submerged and then shaking it would dissolve old lube and most of the grit will fall in time at the bottom of the PET. With not too much work...
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08-27-23, 01:22 PM
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I didn't study that, thus, I can not contest it (although I have a Diesel car with perfect injectors after 250.000 km).
But does this relate to the simple process of cleaning a bike chain? I get 9000 km of riding with one chain with this method, and I replace the chain before reaching 0.075 mm on caliber. maybe I could get around 15000 km with one chain if I used it up to 0.1 mm, but I preferred earlier replacement, to save the cassette and chain rings. My oldest cassette has now 28.000 km and it shoes no signs being worn; I guess it will largely exceed 35.000. Overall, the process seems to give very good results.
But does this relate to the simple process of cleaning a bike chain? I get 9000 km of riding with one chain with this method, and I replace the chain before reaching 0.075 mm on caliber. maybe I could get around 15000 km with one chain if I used it up to 0.1 mm, but I preferred earlier replacement, to save the cassette and chain rings. My oldest cassette has now 28.000 km and it shoes no signs being worn; I guess it will largely exceed 35.000. Overall, the process seems to give very good results.
that's approximately 3500 to 4000 hours of operation.... at roughly 60,000 operation cycles per hour.... do the math.
Last edited by maddog34; 08-27-23 at 01:28 PM.
08-27-23, 01:43 PM
#37
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"Perfect" was a way to say they still work very well: the car still performs almost to its rated maximum speed and acceleration. I don't feel detectable increase in fuel consumption. Sure, about how injectors look now inside and for how long they will work from now on... I have no idea.
08-27-23, 02:22 PM
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According to some of the above posts, it looks that Diesel is not corrosive. Point taken, thanks!
Just to avoid misunderstandings: it is not about using large tanks and quantities of Diesel. It is only about shaking and manipulating small quantities of 200-300 grams from one PET to another, once at 1-3 months (Winter included). Around 20-30 grams are lost every time, together with grit extracted from the chain. It is nothing special and it is not dirty at all, given the simplicity of the process and the small quantities involved. I started to use Diesel because it was easily available and the cost of a few hundred grams wasted per year is not material.
Since “mineral spirit” is suggested here as a better alternative than Diesel, then: How do I identify “Mineral spirit” on the EU market (I assume it is marketed under another name) and what would be its cost?
Just to avoid misunderstandings: it is not about using large tanks and quantities of Diesel. It is only about shaking and manipulating small quantities of 200-300 grams from one PET to another, once at 1-3 months (Winter included). Around 20-30 grams are lost every time, together with grit extracted from the chain. It is nothing special and it is not dirty at all, given the simplicity of the process and the small quantities involved. I started to use Diesel because it was easily available and the cost of a few hundred grams wasted per year is not material.
Since “mineral spirit” is suggested here as a better alternative than Diesel, then: How do I identify “Mineral spirit” on the EU market (I assume it is marketed under another name) and what would be its cost?
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08-27-23, 03:10 PM
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Methy ethyl ketone (2-butanone) isn’t really that good of a solvent for oils. It’s too polar. Longer chain ketones might be good solvents for cleaning chains but they are far more costly and not readily available through retail outlets.
Mineral spirits is a good choice because it’s not too flammable, evaporates quickly, is very effective, and is readily and cheaply available.
Mineral spirits is a good choice because it’s not too flammable, evaporates quickly, is very effective, and is readily and cheaply available.
08-27-23, 03:17 PM
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Wait a minute! Don't you keep telling people you're a chemical engineer? Where's the discussion about sulfur content related corrosion and microbial growth and acidic waste from that?
08-27-23, 03:27 PM
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What you do not realize is that diesel is a very very dirty fuel with millions of particles in each gallon. Diesel fuel filters remove 98.7% of the particles which still lets 240,000 particles per gallon to go into the fuel injection system of the engine which is why the fuel injectors are have a much shorter life than with engines burning gasoline.
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08-27-23, 03:31 PM
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I didn't study that, thus, I can not contest it (although I have a Diesel car with perfect injectors after 250.000 km).
But does this relate to the simple process of cleaning a bike chain? I get 9000 km of riding with one chain with this method, and I replace the chain before reaching 0.075 mm on caliber. maybe I could get around 15000 km with one chain if I used it up to 0.1 mm, but I preferred earlier replacement, to save the cassette and chain rings. My oldest cassette has now 28.000 km and it shoes no signs being worn; I guess it will largely exceed 35.000. Overall, the process seems to give very good results.
But does this relate to the simple process of cleaning a bike chain? I get 9000 km of riding with one chain with this method, and I replace the chain before reaching 0.075 mm on caliber. maybe I could get around 15000 km with one chain if I used it up to 0.1 mm, but I preferred earlier replacement, to save the cassette and chain rings. My oldest cassette has now 28.000 km and it shoes no signs being worn; I guess it will largely exceed 35.000. Overall, the process seems to give very good results.
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08-27-23, 03:33 PM
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And probably not anymore with the ultra low sulfur requirements.
08-27-23, 04:03 PM
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This thread was started by someone who knew they were going against the grain about the corrosion reputation of diesel. Regardless of whether he is right or not, there is no upside to using diesel for cleaning chains (or guns) unless you're constantly around the stuff already. It's gross with a nasty smell and it isn't a better cleaner than a ton of alternatives that are less toxic.
The only reason we are discussing the nasty junk is that someone put it up for discussion. We might as well be talking about cleaning chains with pee. Most will realize there isn't much reason to do so, and a few contrarians will be all for it.
1. You don't need to clean and degrease your chain. Chain makers tell you not to.
2. All sorts of stuff cleans chains, including lubricants.
3. If you care so much about chain cleanliness, why are you using liquid lubricants in the first place?
So just another silly thread.
08-27-23, 05:42 PM
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Chemist, not chemical engineer. Sulfur in the fuel isn’t all that corrosive until it is burned. Not that there is much sulfur in diesel anymore. Since 2006, allowable sulfur was dropped to 15ppm. It’s a good bet that anything used today has that level of sulfur and isn’t something to be concerned about.
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08-27-23, 06:09 PM
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At least use off road diesel so you don't pay the road tax
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08-27-23, 07:04 PM
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Diesel smells so bad I can't think of anything I would want to use it for other than fuel.
And FWIW, it doesn't matter what anyone posts that they do to their chain, someone is going to say it is wrong.
And FWIW, it doesn't matter what anyone posts that they do to their chain, someone is going to say it is wrong.
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08-28-23, 12:28 AM
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Yet a guy on this thread had a rusted bike chain from soaking in diesel.
This thread was started by someone who knew they were going against the grain about the corrosion reputation of diesel. Regardless of whether he is right or not, there is no upside to using diesel for cleaning chains (or guns) unless you're constantly around the stuff already. It's gross with a nasty smell and it isn't a better cleaner than a ton of alternatives that are less toxic.
The only reason we are discussing the nasty junk is that someone put it up for discussion. We might as well be talking about cleaning chains with pee. Most will realize there isn't much reason to do so, and a few contrarians will be all for it.
1. You don't need to clean and degrease your chain. Chain makers tell you not to.
2. All sorts of stuff cleans chains, including lubricants.
3. If you care so much about chain cleanliness, why are you using liquid lubricants in the first place?
So just another silly thread.
This thread was started by someone who knew they were going against the grain about the corrosion reputation of diesel. Regardless of whether he is right or not, there is no upside to using diesel for cleaning chains (or guns) unless you're constantly around the stuff already. It's gross with a nasty smell and it isn't a better cleaner than a ton of alternatives that are less toxic.
The only reason we are discussing the nasty junk is that someone put it up for discussion. We might as well be talking about cleaning chains with pee. Most will realize there isn't much reason to do so, and a few contrarians will be all for it.
1. You don't need to clean and degrease your chain. Chain makers tell you not to.
2. All sorts of stuff cleans chains, including lubricants.
3. If you care so much about chain cleanliness, why are you using liquid lubricants in the first place?
So just another silly thread.
He said he’s in Europe. He didn’t say where in Europe.
Frankfurt? He can probably get anything we can.
Rural Bulgaria? Maybe not. But you can get diesel pretty much anywhere on earth.
And it will work good enough to cut the old lube and flush enough grit out.
The poster from India who said he was a broke college student? Yep. I recommended flushing his freewheel with diesel.
The things many on BF seem to not understand. Not everyone lives in the USA or has access to the products the US has. Not everything is a drop bar road bike.
I saw some ****ed up houses and villages in the Balkans. That was 20+ years ago, so maybe things are better now, but they might not have access to Phil’s, or their wife might get pissed if they steal the crockpot to wax a chain.
But even in a war zone, you can find diesel. And some equivalent of ATF (5606 or 83282).
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08-28-23, 02:38 AM
#49
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I
I saw some ****ed up houses and villages in the Balkans. That was 20+ years ago, so maybe things are better now, but they might not have access to Phil’s, or their wife might get pissed if they steal the crockpot to wax a chain.
But even in a war zone, you can find diesel. And some equivalent of ATF (5606 or 83282).
I saw some ****ed up houses and villages in the Balkans. That was 20+ years ago, so maybe things are better now, but they might not have access to Phil’s, or their wife might get pissed if they steal the crockpot to wax a chain.
But even in a war zone, you can find diesel. And some equivalent of ATF (5606 or 83282).
And, to be honest, I was also alerted by a number of posts on Facebook showing newer "flattop" chains broken without known reason, with some people trying to challenge the cleaning method used by the posters. As I also use one of that on a bike (no problems so far), I just started to prudently challenge the possible corrosion effect of Diesel.
Last edited by Redbullet; 08-28-23 at 02:44 AM.
08-28-23, 02:49 AM
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Come on, I don't think that people in "****ed up houses and villages in the Balkans" use to buy and ride road bikes with Force 22 on their "pristine" roads; they have other tough problems to solve. The reason of using Diesel is much simpler: it is easily available without research, internet order and payment or visiting a shop. Just throw 2-3 liters in a small metal can after you fuel the car - and it's enough for years. As I mentioned before, it isn't so dirty, due to the small quantities involved and the simplicity of the process. A few minutes of smell and a few drops on the floor tile within a year are not an issue, really... My concern was about corrosion.
And, to be honest, I was also alerted by a number of posts on Facebook showing newer "flattop" chains broken without known reason, with some people trying to challenge the cleaning method used by the posters. As I also use one of that on a bike (no problems so far), I just started to prudently challenge the possible corrosion effect of Diesel.
And, to be honest, I was also alerted by a number of posts on Facebook showing newer "flattop" chains broken without known reason, with some people trying to challenge the cleaning method used by the posters. As I also use one of that on a bike (no problems so far), I just started to prudently challenge the possible corrosion effect of Diesel.
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