smd4

I like SwissStop pads.

As I have related before, I had absolutely no problem with my stock Dura Ace pads. They stop great. But I got a set of SwissStop pads on a whim, and yes, there is a very noticeable difference. I admit I didn't think there would be such a difference. I suspect the same would be true for Kool Stop pads.

Dave Mayer

Profound truth. Yes, Dura-Ace 7402 was the best single pivot brake ever made, featuring the highest quality hardware and materials. The light spring action meant you could apply more hand pressure to actual braking and not in overcoming overly-stiff springs, as with the Campy brakes.

But the next generation 7403 dual pivots were a quantum leap forward in braking power, and they self-centered. Nothing to do with pads, the design was simply better.

I also had 7700 and 7800 calipers and they were as good as the 7403's and lighter.

If you have a little more coin, then check out the Ultegra R8000 calipers, as they are a newer symmetrical dual-pivot design, and they incorporate a small steel stiffening plate between the arms. This adds a little weight, but for outright power, they are better than the previous generations of dual-pivot brakes.

smd4

I've heard they are stellar. Unfortunately, I have a hard and fast anti-black-component rule!

alcjphil

Unfortunately, R8000 calipers require brake levers that pull more cable. The OP's older brake levers would likely bottom out before maximum braking could be achieved unless the calipers were adjusted extremely close to the rim and the rims were absolutely, perfectly true.

3alarmer 

...it's much easier to understand, once you've personally experienced it. A lot of life is like that.

Steel Charlie

I'll tell you straight and true that if that bike fit me I'd be willing to take it off your hands in a heartbeat. I have absolutely no problem with sidepull brakes or popping a couple $ for what it needs.

JMO of course. YMMV

RoadWearier

How much would you pay for it?

Steel Charlie

Unfortunately it's too big

RoadWearier

But if it fit what would pay

bboy314

If you like the bike, get a taller stem and replace both brake cables and housing. Not a big deal, and one should expect to spend some money on fitting/refreshing when buying a decades old used bike anyway. If the bars did not come drilled when new, not a bad idea to replace those too.

blamester

So before dual pivots no bike engineer understood how levers worked.
The finest engineers in Shimano couldn't do it.
They could build beautiful but ultimately rubbish brakes. Cold forged , polished and precision bearing surfaces. I have some and even the bolts are brilliant. No corrosion after thirty years of use.
But they got the leverage wrong. They must have done no testing. How shoddy of them.
Everybody was riding around with rubbish brakes and no one knew. In a hundred or so years no one figured it out.
That is mad. Must have been a computer that eventually figured it out. Or maybe N.A.S.A.
​​​​​

​​​​​

smd4

As mentioned, several of us have a great deal of experience with top of the line Shimano single pivots. No one said they were rubbish. What we have said, but what doesn’t apparently support your worldview, is that dual pivots simply perform better.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

blamester

Well it was said that the cheapest dual pivot is better than the best single pivot ever made.
That is not true.
Single pivots or dual pivot or v brakes with the wrong levers will all be inferior to the correct combination of caliper and lever. And the cheapest version of any will be worse.
My world view doesn't change the law of levers.

smd4

Gotcha. You moved the goalpost to include using the wrong levers.

So I use the exact same levers for my Dura Ace 7400 single pivots as I do my 7700 dual pivots, and the dual pivots are far, far superior. Are you suggesting I’m using the incorrect lever for single pivots?

3alarmer 

...$150. https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...bout-them.html

3alarmer 

.
... I always thought Archimedes figured out levers a long time ago. I didn't know he worked for Shimano.

philbob57

Roadwearier,

The brake shoes on the Medici probably need replacement. I now run Kool-Stop Eagle Claw 2s on my Superbes, and the braking is good enough - high stopping power, easy to modulate, $18 with 2-day delivery from Amazon, though perhaps your local LBS can sell them to you today. Much better than K-S Continentals that I was using. I think we'd all recommend making sure your brake pads are pretty current.
*****
Those look like Suntour Superbe brakes, medium pull, possibly with nutted connections. What dual-pivot brakes other than Tektro 539s or 359s will fit without modifying the frame?
You think it's easy to drill out the mounting holes? I don't. I don't know how competent Roadwearier is with a drill, but if the current brakes can be made to work, IMO that's better than modifying the frame.
*****
Just as I was wondering if there were any trade-offs involved in going dual-pivot, TrakHak quoted Jobst Brandt. What do you know? There ARE trade-offs.

I tried dual-pivots on a number of occasions, to wit:

1) Weinmann center-pulls - I thought the Superbes were easier to modulate and stopped better;
2) Ultegras with old pads on a titanium Guru - impossible to modulate; great for panic stops, but I rarely need to make panic stops;
3) low-end 30 year old Shimano DPs that came on a Technium 450 with K-S Eagle Claw 2s - nothing special.

D-Ps are A solution. They may be THE solution for you. They're not THE solution for everyone.
*****
Ali-express? I have a lot of respect for China, but the fact is that it's impossible to look at a listing on Aliexpress and know the quality of the goods, Price alone isn't a reliable indicator; some vendors sell junk at super-high markups. We all know corners can be cut, and if corners can be cut, they will be. Sorry ... when even brand names sell brakes that don't stop bikes, I can't see recommending to someone that they take the risk that goes along with buying 'any' $20 brake.
*****
Nitto makes tall stems. Nitto may not have Cinelli' panache but may equal Cinelli in quality. If it doesn't, it comes pretty close.
*****
Lots of dogma in this thread. I don't buy it. In fact, the more dogmatic a post is, the less I trust it.

3alarmer 

...two different approaches on display. The majority of people who hang out here regularly, would look on that $150 Medici as a great project starting point.

The paint is iffy, but if you were willing to spend another couple of hundred bucks overhauling it and replacing stuff like rubber, cables, tires, maybe dual pivot brakes, an un-drilled bar and a stem that fits the reach to your preferences, it's possibly a good deal at $150. You're posting at a guy who buys low, and tries not to get all caught up in sunk costs. Because it won't be too long before he decides this one is not as great a bike as he had been led to believe, sells it, and moves on.

It's just a misunderstanding really. Different world views. You fix stuff, and fit it to your ideal parameters. He starts threads complaining about all the liars on Craigslist. I buy a $150 bike like this because it has a reputation as a well built frame (sometimes...the reviews were mixed for some reason). I fully expect to deconstruct it, maybe repaint it a little nicer, and reassemble it for optimal performance. Not everyone is so inclined. Certainly in the current time frame, it's a money loser. You need to be doing it because you enjoy riding this kind of stuff. So what we have here, is failure to communicate.

I don't really expect him to understand this world of old bikes, but I'm sure he will have wonderful adventures here. Asking for advice on a mechanical issue and then coming back to say "Thanks, but I'm just gonna ignore it," is great fun. Where would we be without this stuff. And any arguments that pop up along the way about whether the cable is too short, drilling aluminum alloy bars is a bad idea, or dual versus single pivot brakes ? That's bonus content.

smd4

RoadWearier

Well I sold it for $200! Now you can stop arguing. I made profit profit profit!! Evil dirty profit!!! Bwahahaha!!!

Now onto the next bike!!! Bwahahaha

3alarmer 

...congratulations. It's always satisfying when you can achieve your objective.

shelbyfv

At least folks know how to respond to the next thread, soon to come.

smd4

You “loved” the bike a week ago. Of course I would never suggest you were “lying.” People throw that term around carelessly sometimes, don’t you think? But I’m starting to think you’re less than forthright.

RoadWearier

Yes I loved it! And then discarded it like an old hooor! Rankles your cocycx, don't it? Next I will Defile a Schwinn Paramount! Bwahahaha

RoadWearier

Next...another Trump Presidency! Then I will buy a Roadmaster for $40 and sell it for $42.58!! bwahahaha!!?