jawnn

a couple years ago I wasted money on the TPR brakes that press from both sides. Now I am fed up with them vibrating out of adjustment.

So now I need some kind of adjustable brakes for riding down a steep hill with as much as 500lbs total combined weight.

So far, I am thinking of Sram but what kind and how little can I get out of the store for?

I would prefer mineral oil to the corrosive Dot fluids.

the only other brake I know of would be Magura. But what else do I need to consider?
the local bike shop keeps trying to sell me cheap Shimono with no modulation, so I will be thrown over the handlebars and end up in the hospital. they even tell me I may not be satisfied with adjustable brakes.
But why? (I have never ridden hydraulic brakes.) any ideas will help.....

Darth Lefty 

You mean Spyke / Spyre? Those are the two versions for the MTB or road cable pull and if strength is the problem I hope you got the one that matches your levers. Assuming that's right, what do you not like about them? Would it be fixed with a different choice of pad material or a larger rotor?

Hydraulic is not stronger per se. It's just a different way of moving the leverage from your hand to the brake pad. Like any brake it's all about pad/rotor friction, and leverage.

Shimano makes good ones. I'm not sure why you would think not. Their rep has slipped a little from ten years ago with a lever design change starting in XTR M9000, but not a ton. TRP / Tektro also uses mineral oil. Tektro brakes are endemic on inexpensive mountain bikes. SRAM uses DOT... I know they have one model that uses mineral oil but it's pretty rare. Those are probably the most familiar choices. Anything else is going to be something more esoteric and expensive like Hope or Hayes. Four piston brakes have some small advantages and have been getting more popular.

tyrion

I'd imagine Shimano Saint (their downhill racing line) brakes would be among the most powerful bicycle brakes. I know Magura makes some beefy brakes too.

You might take a look at the biggest most powerful e-bikes and see what they use.

Eric F 

For that kind of weight, I would look at brake systems designed for MTB downhill racing - 4 pistons and big rotors.

Broctoon

And also,

What am I missing?

I would recommend loosening up your purse strings and getting a high quality system. Or setting aside some savings for an emergency room visit.

For tandems ridden in hilly terrain, Sheldon Brown recommended adding a hub brake (nowadays probably disc) in addition to two rim brakes. Brakes for Tandem Bicycles

Iride01 

How heavy is this thing when fully loaded? 500 pounds! Does that include you?

That weight might be an issue for any type of brake system aimed at recreational and sport type riding. Especially if this is something you are going to have to keep slow while going down hills and drag the brakes for a long time.

I've seen glowing red hot brake rotors on airplanes, cars and trucks. I haven't seen them on bikes yet. But this is one case where I might imagine them a possibility.

Polaris OBark

I would think twice about putting 500lb of extra weight in my car.

No bike brake is going to be adequate, with the possible exception of drum brakes used on tandems.

maddog34

i'd ask these folks... https://www.bikeforums.net/tandem-cycling/
my Santana tandem uses a Rim brake and a Drum brake on the rear.. the drum will lock that tire up in a hurry if i don't modulate things correctly.. the Front is just a rim brake, and i can lock it up too...KoolStop Salmon Pads on both rim canti brakes... i've never looked at the drum brake shoes other than to clean them when i first brought home my $75 Garage Sale find... thinking they might be from EBC...

jawnn

of course 500lbs includes me. I am now thinking about moped or even small motorcycle drumbrakes. I just need 36 spokeholes

But I have been using cheep disc brakes. but they don't like to stay in adjustment.

Bicycle Drum Brakes (sheldonbrown.com) I'm NOT worried about the price

veganbikes

Shimano makes great brakes so if you are going OTB that is on you generally. However my go to for brakes for a bike like that would be Magura MT5s with Magura MDR-P rotors and nice big ones as big as you can fit in the frame safely. I run a 203 at the front of my e-bike and a 180 Rohloff storm rotor at the back and am a heavier rider with a heavy bike though not 500 lbs or even close but no issues stopping. Yes the MT5s are probably going to not be cheap because they are not cheap brakes but cheap brakes are not the way to go anyway. If you are having an issue SOLVE THE ISSUE. Don't come into it being a bird (cheap cheap, cheap cheap) come into it with I want to solve the issue I am carrying a lot of weight and want to be able to stop safely and reliably. There is always financing and other options but trying to get away cheaply when you are having safety issues is always a bad move.

TRP also makes a cargo bike specific hydraulic brake which is nice and based off of their winning DH Brakes that Aaron Gwin uses (and he won at Leogang, I believe, without a freakin chain). Riese and Müller has been speccing those brakes on their Load models for a while now and they have been great and those will typically hold 1-3 passengers (children) or cargo as well as a heavy front loader and the rider so that is another option. Their Spyke or Spyres are great brakes but some people don't like them and for your usage I wouldn't even with Jagwire elite link cables and housing and good Kool or SwissStop pads and upgraded rotors (the TRP 25 rotors and their stock pads are pretty bad but the brakes themselves are great).

I don't know that I would go drum brakes nothing really against them but I would rather have disc brakes which are easier to service these days most places and plenty of great rotor and pad options and loads of different brakes out there so if the two I listed aren't up to snuff there are great ones from Shimano and if you want to get real spendy Trickstuff Maxima is the dream but also SRAM, Hayes, Hope...

maddog34

your problem is the TRP calipers, not the Style of brakes... try some avid BB7 or 5 calipers.... BB7's use a road/short pull lever.. BB5's use a v-brake MTB long pull lever. the adjustment knob is detented, and doesn't vibrate loose.

jawnn

[QUOTE=veganbikes;22966348]Shimano makes great brakes so if you are going OTB that is on you generally. However my go to for brakes for a bike like that would be Magura MT5s with Magura MDR-P rotors and nice big ones as big as you can fit in the frame safely. I run a 203 at the front of my e-bike and a 180 Rohloff storm rotor at the back and am a heavier rider with a heavy bike though not 500 lbs or even close but no issues stopping. Yes the MT5s are probably going to not be cheap because they are not cheap brakes but cheap brakes are not the way to go anyway. If you are having an issue SOLVE THE ISSUE. Don't come into it being a bird (cheap cheap, cheap cheap) come into it with I want to solve the issue I am carrying a lot of weight and want to be able to stop safely and reliably. There is always financing and other options but trying to get away cheaply when you are having safety issues is always a bad move.
/QUOTE]
excuse me but I did not say anything about needing a cheap resolution to this problem. I did try avid BB7 and the red plastic got lost.

Infact I was expecting to spend at least 500 us bucks. But I found a way to keep the brakes from backing out, If I can actually open up the TRP brakes I can use lock tight blue.

But I think that I will not be satisfied until I turn this bicycle into a MOPED. I have a decent motor that could be larger if I rebuild the rear end and I have two motorcycle tires on it.
this is the project :endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/mt-goat-cycletruck-cyclone
I looked for tandem brakes only to find cantilever rim brakes. Way out dated for this kind of machine. And yes I had originally planed to buy the Dorado brakes.

Iride01 

As heavy as that thing is, you probably should be looking at brake systems for small motorcycles. Especially if you are going to motorize it. Bicycle brakes systems that you find being sold for recreational bikes are not made for the weight you want to use them for.

jawnn

yes small motorycle drum brakes....

But I think that I will not be satisfied until I turn this bicycle into a MOPED. I have a decent motor that could be larger if I rebuild the rear end and I have two motorcycle tires on it. I want drum brakes for the front only because of the stopping power of front brakes and I have a very good hub on the rear I don't want to dump. I was thinking that drum moped drum brake shave a lot more surface contact than another other kind of brake. and hopefully they are water proof.


this is the project :endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/mt-goat-cycletruck-cyclone

I looked for tandem brakes only to find cantilever rim brakes. Way out dated for this kind of machine. And yes I had originally planed to buy the Dorado brakes. I should have started with a real moped or motorcycle.

hokiefyd 

There is (at least in SRAM's online catalog) a road and mountain model for both the BB5 and the BB7. It looks like the road models are silver and the mountain models are grey (except for the S/SL models with stainless hardware).

BB5 Road: https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-blbg-5r-a1
BB5 Mountain: https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-blbg-5m-a1

BB7 Road: https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-blbg-7r-a1
BB7 Mountain: https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-blbg-7m-a1

Eric F 

Hmmm...When my family rides in my car, it adds almost 500lbs more than when it's just me, and I never have a second thought about it.

maddog34

fascinating.. SRAM has found a way to cause even more confusion and mismatch chaos.

PS.. i just pulled a pair of BLACK BB5 calipers out of my disc Calipers bin. and they are Long Pull.

i'll stick to measuring the cam arms.

Avid MTB/long pull measure @ 32mm from pivot center to clamp surface.
Tektro and Promax(plus a gaggle of knockoff variants!) seem to imitate the Avids... Not sure about Hayes, the one pair i have here are 32mm, but CLAIMED by the previous owner to be "short pull/road calipers".. they are "new. take offs".. they also weight a lot more than other calipers... nice polished finish though!. sigh....

Polaris OBark

I was thinking about towing weight (and my Rav4 fake FUV). But now that I think about it, that might be a better way to have my family ride in the car.

Eric F 

Maybe better, maybe not.

maddog34

always net the trailer load.. or not ?

and if your kids are like most, the trailer idea is most definitely safer for the driver.

hokiefyd 

Yep -- I have a pair of Avid FR-5s and a couple of pairs of Tektros that I don't have a model number for, and they're all about 32mm. Interestingly, every Shimano long pull lever I have measures at about 40mm...and they don't pull a mechanical disc brake caliper very well (though you can set them up with a ton of rotor clearance!). Every flat bar short pull lever I have is in the 27-28mm range. The difference between those and the Avid/Tektro long pulls is about 15% (which demonstrates just how far Shimano's 40mm radius is from other brands' long pull levers - about 25%).

veganbikes

You did mention it maybe not directly saying cheap but having worked in the industry I have heard all the terms and ways people try to say it:
If you are looking to make a moped this is probably not the ideal place as this is a bike forum and mopeds are not bikes. But for bicycle brakes the ones I suggested like the Magura MT5s and MDR-P rotors will be a good idea and fitting the largest rotors you can will help out quite a bit.

tcs

Downhillers! Tandems! Motorcycles!

Actually, for cycletruck use, I think veganbikes was on the right track: use what well-known, name-brand cycletrucks use.

The LarryvsHarry cycletruck (rated at ~400lbs) uses the TRP Slate EVO brakes.

The Surly Skid Loader cycletruck (rated at 400lbs) uses the Tektro 4-piston M745.

The Riese&Mueller Load 60 cycletruck (rated at ~480lbs) uses the Tektro TRP C 2.3 cargo brake.

The Trek Fetch+ 4 cycletruck (rated at 550lbs) uses the Tektro HD-T737 4-piston.

tcs

veganbikes

I would not want to use that brake on a tandem, the pads are dime sized, the rotor is a fine size and looks decent but that brake looks like one from a wallymart special