Cutting carbon fork, and risk of Health involved.
06-11-21, 12:24 PM
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I understand your reasoning, humans are good at using defensemechanisms towards dangerous stuff.
But seriously carbon is like asbestos and one exposure can be enough...
But seriously carbon is like asbestos and one exposure can be enough...
06-11-21, 05:43 PM
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Well as long as you resurrected this Zombie thread, knowing the facts isn't a defense mechanism and it's ridiculous to equate saw dust from carbon fiber composites with asbestos. Please look up the MSDS's for carbon fiber and carbon composites and put this alarmist nonsense to rest.
06-11-21, 06:11 PM
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Well as long as you resurrected this Zombie thread, knowing the facts isn't a defense mechanism and it's ridiculous to equate saw dust from carbon fiber composites with asbestos. Please look up the MSDS's for carbon fiber and carbon composites and put this alarmist nonsense to rest.
Last edited by Mad Honk; 06-12-21 at 08:38 AM.
06-11-21, 06:43 PM
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Nobody here has said why carbon dust is an issue. IIRC, it's because carbon is inert, so your body has no way to chemically grab onto it to shift it. It gets in lungs, it stays there.
Okay, carbon isn't strictly inert since it has four outer electrons, but I think it's like oxygen, it'll bond to itself, but it takes more energy to break that bond or something like that... Long story short, it's inert as far as your body is concerned.
If you get a carbon splinter under your skin, the usual process that deals with a wood splinter won't work.
Speaking of splinters, I won't use a saw to cut the stuff, since I don't have a diamond blade. Dremel all the way, gives you lots of control. File or sandpaper to deburr and/or add a chamfer. Just do it outside and stand upwind.
On the subject of where to cut, I've found no issues with cutting flush for no upper spacer - the trick is to start with a good expander plug (there are plenty of crap ones) which will provide support under the stem's clamp bolts when it's in position. The best one I've found is by KCNC. In order to maximise the length of the steerer, I countersink the top plate of the expander plug into the steerer.
Finally, if you do this it's probably a good move to add a bit of extra security by doing up the stem's lower clamp bolts a couple of Nm tighter than the top one, since the reason for leaving a bit poking out of the top is because even clamping on a carbon steerer that finishes right near the top bolt will cause it to taper slightly, which you do not want. A quality expander plug is crucial.
Okay, carbon isn't strictly inert since it has four outer electrons, but I think it's like oxygen, it'll bond to itself, but it takes more energy to break that bond or something like that... Long story short, it's inert as far as your body is concerned.
If you get a carbon splinter under your skin, the usual process that deals with a wood splinter won't work.
Speaking of splinters, I won't use a saw to cut the stuff, since I don't have a diamond blade. Dremel all the way, gives you lots of control. File or sandpaper to deburr and/or add a chamfer. Just do it outside and stand upwind.
On the subject of where to cut, I've found no issues with cutting flush for no upper spacer - the trick is to start with a good expander plug (there are plenty of crap ones) which will provide support under the stem's clamp bolts when it's in position. The best one I've found is by KCNC. In order to maximise the length of the steerer, I countersink the top plate of the expander plug into the steerer.
Finally, if you do this it's probably a good move to add a bit of extra security by doing up the stem's lower clamp bolts a couple of Nm tighter than the top one, since the reason for leaving a bit poking out of the top is because even clamping on a carbon steerer that finishes right near the top bolt will cause it to taper slightly, which you do not want. A quality expander plug is crucial.
Last edited by Kimmo; 06-11-21 at 06:59 PM.
06-11-21, 09:02 PM
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Not quite. Coal contains many other chemicals beside elemental carbon and many of these are toxic and carcinogenic like the benzine-family of compounds and the components that make up "coal tar". Pure carbon fiber contains none of these. As to Kimmo's assertion that the lungs have no way to remove carbon dust, the lungs have "cilia", small hair-like projections that move to physically flush particulate matter out of them. What makes smoking so harmful is the compounds in smoke paralyze the cilia and they no longer remove damaging chemicals and particles.
06-11-21, 11:12 PM
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Adding to this zombie thread:
-Resin sensitivity was mentioned. Working around composites I've met a few people with it. All of them took some time to develop it, and in all of their cases it was only an issue with uncured resin. Once cured they were all fine to handle it, including around the dust.
-I've gotten some rather nasty rashes from carbon fiber dust, although that's really not much different than being careless with fiberglass dust.
-Even with lots of carelessness, I never managed to notice any issues with getting it in my lungs. I have met someone who did manage to get a bunch in his lungs, and it resulted in basically a season of not riding. However, it involved what I suspect was weeks of sanding a carbon fiber project he was working on, indoors, without PPE. Not a one time event. Wear a mask (everyone has one now). If you're worried, do it outside with a fan or breeze at your back.
-If you can color inside the lines and work a hacksaw, you can tape the tube, mark it, and cut along the mark. Depending on your skill level (or lack thereof) it will look nicer with a guide, but many have done it without one. I have an abrasive blade I use, but a fine tooth generic hacksaw blade works just fine too.
-Resin sensitivity was mentioned. Working around composites I've met a few people with it. All of them took some time to develop it, and in all of their cases it was only an issue with uncured resin. Once cured they were all fine to handle it, including around the dust.
-I've gotten some rather nasty rashes from carbon fiber dust, although that's really not much different than being careless with fiberglass dust.
-Even with lots of carelessness, I never managed to notice any issues with getting it in my lungs. I have met someone who did manage to get a bunch in his lungs, and it resulted in basically a season of not riding. However, it involved what I suspect was weeks of sanding a carbon fiber project he was working on, indoors, without PPE. Not a one time event. Wear a mask (everyone has one now). If you're worried, do it outside with a fan or breeze at your back.
-If you can color inside the lines and work a hacksaw, you can tape the tube, mark it, and cut along the mark. Depending on your skill level (or lack thereof) it will look nicer with a guide, but many have done it without one. I have an abrasive blade I use, but a fine tooth generic hacksaw blade works just fine too.
06-11-21, 11:31 PM
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Hey folks me again, with another question that may be interesting for future noobs like me 
.
I bough some days ago a carbon frameset I now would need to cut the carbon fork because it came stock to long. On the English website I couldnīt find much about it, but on the German side I could read a lot of advice from people warning others that carbon dust and resine is EXTREMELY cancerigene
, and some other really really nasty stuff. Some forums were recommending the user attempting to cut itself that he literally wears a full painter uniform (Mask, clothes, glasses).
Now I do know in my side iīm a bit maniac for this kind of stuff, iīm myself some one subject to cancer, its on my family genes.
To make it simple I will number my questions:
1: is really that Dangerous to cut carbon fork alone at home in my cellar ? or is more on a the European side extra care?
2: I looked at some bike shops, (was searching some fine hex blade). And on the go I asked if they would do it to me, they told me the could but for 30Euros, he explained that he would than have to trow the blade away due to the powder and have to take extra measures to keep every employee far from the workshop for at least 30m the time he is sure everything is safe.
Question: Is that worth to just pay 30 bucks let the guy do it and done ? (No risk of breathing or touching + he will apply some resin on the end to make it nice. On the - side he will use a heavy Hex saw with 24 tpi, and Iīm not sure they ever saw carbon fork in their lifes...), I hate bike shops I do know they have nasty methods and do often do more damage and refuse to pay, on the other hand a painter mask with full face protection would as well cost me 30Euros and I can keep it later :/, and Iīm sure to do it proper and absolutely take my time,
3: Now about the blade. I read on internet I should use at least a 30 tpi Hex blade, Iīm absolutely struggling to find it, the finest I can is 24tpi and that's already pretty slim but Im scare to brake this 150 euros fork... (The bike shop above would aswell do with a 24tpi, BUT they say the apply resin at the end.
Thanks everybody for any answer, and sorry for my English.
Best regards see U
.I bough some days ago a carbon frameset I now would need to cut the carbon fork because it came stock to long. On the English website I couldnīt find much about it, but on the German side I could read a lot of advice from people warning others that carbon dust and resine is EXTREMELY cancerigene
, and some other really really nasty stuff. Some forums were recommending the user attempting to cut itself that he literally wears a full painter uniform (Mask, clothes, glasses).Now I do know in my side iīm a bit maniac for this kind of stuff, iīm myself some one subject to cancer, its on my family genes.
To make it simple I will number my questions:
1: is really that Dangerous to cut carbon fork alone at home in my cellar ? or is more on a the European side extra care?
2: I looked at some bike shops, (was searching some fine hex blade). And on the go I asked if they would do it to me, they told me the could but for 30Euros, he explained that he would than have to trow the blade away due to the powder and have to take extra measures to keep every employee far from the workshop for at least 30m the time he is sure everything is safe.
Question: Is that worth to just pay 30 bucks let the guy do it and done ? (No risk of breathing or touching + he will apply some resin on the end to make it nice. On the - side he will use a heavy Hex saw with 24 tpi, and Iīm not sure they ever saw carbon fork in their lifes...), I hate bike shops I do know they have nasty methods and do often do more damage and refuse to pay, on the other hand a painter mask with full face protection would as well cost me 30Euros and I can keep it later :/, and Iīm sure to do it proper and absolutely take my time,
3: Now about the blade. I read on internet I should use at least a 30 tpi Hex blade, Iīm absolutely struggling to find it, the finest I can is 24tpi and that's already pretty slim but Im scare to brake this 150 euros fork... (The bike shop above would aswell do with a 24tpi, BUT they say the apply resin at the end.
Thanks everybody for any answer, and sorry for my English.
Best regards see U
06-12-21, 03:13 AM
#33
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This is how I cut my carbon steerer:
First, my tool is a 1 1/8in pipe cutter I bought at the hardware store to cut aluminum steerers (a godsend). I have this Husky:
I marked my line and used the Husky to cut a very small groove, you obviously have to be extra careful that you don't tighten it real hard, just enough to get a shallow groove. Did one turn, tightened it just a hair and did another turn to make the groove a little deeper. I made the groove just deep enough so that my hacksaw blade could fit in it then slowly cut it all the way through with the saw. I basically used the pipe cutter to make a guide for the hacksaw blade to sit in. Very easy, only took a couple of minutes.
There was no carbon dust. That isn't even an issue, there's no high speed cutting involved.
First, my tool is a 1 1/8in pipe cutter I bought at the hardware store to cut aluminum steerers (a godsend). I have this Husky:
I marked my line and used the Husky to cut a very small groove, you obviously have to be extra careful that you don't tighten it real hard, just enough to get a shallow groove. Did one turn, tightened it just a hair and did another turn to make the groove a little deeper. I made the groove just deep enough so that my hacksaw blade could fit in it then slowly cut it all the way through with the saw. I basically used the pipe cutter to make a guide for the hacksaw blade to sit in. Very easy, only took a couple of minutes.
There was no carbon dust. That isn't even an issue, there's no high speed cutting involved.
06-12-21, 02:19 PM
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Well folks, I may be a bit alarmist about CF and what the dust looks like and how quickly it becomes airborne. I cut down some golf shafts yesterday evening and here is what the results look like in the filters of my dust collection system. The unit collects 850cfm and has a good strong draw for the particulate matter. The filters are merv12 and catch most ultra-fine particles. I think the filters give a good indication of how the CF dust created can get in the air easily and easily be breathed in. Here are the pics:
This is the system top plate with a few of the shaft cuttings and a view of the dust collected.
The disposable filters that I use from a reputable Minnesota company. I use them one atop of another to capture as much of the dust as possible.
The dust from yesterday's cuttings. I wouldn't want any of this stuff in my lungs. Note the size of the collection spots on the filter.
This is the capture in the second layer of the filter that got through the first filter level.
I have been working with the CF for at least 30 years as a Golf Equipment Professional. At first I tried cutting the CF with a hack saw over a containment bucket but the dust was pernicious and got every where. A lot of research through the MSD sheets and the best method to contain the dust. This solution has worked pretty well. The filters are $34 every change and about once a week keeps the shop clean and CF dust from being breathed in here. I hope this helps explain my thoughts on cutting CF. Smiles, MH
This is the system top plate with a few of the shaft cuttings and a view of the dust collected.
The disposable filters that I use from a reputable Minnesota company. I use them one atop of another to capture as much of the dust as possible.
The dust from yesterday's cuttings. I wouldn't want any of this stuff in my lungs. Note the size of the collection spots on the filter.
This is the capture in the second layer of the filter that got through the first filter level.
I have been working with the CF for at least 30 years as a Golf Equipment Professional. At first I tried cutting the CF with a hack saw over a containment bucket but the dust was pernicious and got every where. A lot of research through the MSD sheets and the best method to contain the dust. This solution has worked pretty well. The filters are $34 every change and about once a week keeps the shop clean and CF dust from being breathed in here. I hope this helps explain my thoughts on cutting CF. Smiles, MH
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06-12-21, 03:23 PM
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Well folks, I may be a bit alarmist about CF and what the dust looks like and how quickly it becomes airborne. I cut down some golf shafts yesterday evening and here is what the results look like in the filters of my dust collection system. The unit collects 850cfm and has a good strong draw for the particulate matter. The filters are merv12 and catch most ultra-fine particles. I think the filters give a good indication of how the CF dust created can get in the air easily and easily be breathed in. Here are the pics:
This is the system top plate with a few of the shaft cuttings and a view of the dust collected.
The disposable filters that I use from a reputable Minnesota company. I use them one atop of another to capture as much of the dust as possible.
The dust from yesterday's cuttings. I wouldn't want any of this stuff in my lungs. Note the size of the collection spots on the filter.
This is the capture in the second layer of the filter that got through the first filter level.
I have been working with the CF for at least 30 years as a Golf Equipment Professional. At first I tried cutting the CF with a hack saw over a containment bucket but the dust was pernicious and got every where. A lot of research through the MSD sheets and the best method to contain the dust. This solution has worked pretty well. The filters are $34 every change and about once a week keeps the shop clean and CF dust from being breathed in here. I hope this helps explain my thoughts on cutting CF. Smiles, MH
This is the system top plate with a few of the shaft cuttings and a view of the dust collected.
The disposable filters that I use from a reputable Minnesota company. I use them one atop of another to capture as much of the dust as possible.
The dust from yesterday's cuttings. I wouldn't want any of this stuff in my lungs. Note the size of the collection spots on the filter.
This is the capture in the second layer of the filter that got through the first filter level.
I have been working with the CF for at least 30 years as a Golf Equipment Professional. At first I tried cutting the CF with a hack saw over a containment bucket but the dust was pernicious and got every where. A lot of research through the MSD sheets and the best method to contain the dust. This solution has worked pretty well. The filters are $34 every change and about once a week keeps the shop clean and CF dust from being breathed in here. I hope this helps explain my thoughts on cutting CF. Smiles, MH
Carbon Fiber Composite Debris.
This is an environmental tapelift sample from a home.
The carbon fiber is the single dark fiber running diagonally in the image. Carbon fiber is becoming increasingly common in household dust. It is a powerful irritant if present at a high enough concentration. https://ww.microlabgallery.com/galler...8-13%201b.aspx Anyway, Dave! I'm presently rocking a very nice bench vise on my basement workbench. I went with the table mount instead of the post mount. Many thanks.
Last edited by FBOATSB; 06-13-21 at 03:08 PM.
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06-13-21, 06:41 PM
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I really appreciate you guys for taking my question that serious, I could swear Windows XP had a shorter support time from Microsoft than me in this thread 😅😬.
The frame has been cut for more than 6 years already, Im alive!!!, no symptoms so far.
the bike was really a joy to ride , even once I got to 100km/h going downhill. I sold the bike 2 years later. Total weight was less than 9kg. Very good bike
The frame has been cut for more than 6 years already, Im alive!!!, no symptoms so far.
the bike was really a joy to ride , even once I got to 100km/h going downhill. I sold the bike 2 years later. Total weight was less than 9kg. Very good bike
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