Squeezebox

I've read with interest about the stuff people have changed out on their touring bicycles. And I thought, "why spend the extra money?" I soon realized that I did very much the same thing, by changing brakes, shifters, cassette, tires, fenders, probably front rack/bags.
I walked past my road bicycle on the way to the bathroom, and took a good look at it. I've done some maintenance to it, tires, chains, HB tape, etc. But it's the same as I bought it, with no major component changes. Same with my around town bicycle. Better pedals is all I did to it.
There are those that buy a frame and then all the parts. And find that cheaper for a touring bicycle.
There are the semi-custom and custom shops that let you chose your components & geometry.
My guess is tourers modify their stuff more than any other group. Why is this neccessary?
Why is there so much modification of touring bicycles?
Or is there?
So one big question is; If you go to buying a moderate frame and all the components, How far away financially are you from going to semi-custom? With the components you want and a much better quality frame?
2nd question; Is to buy a moderate bicycle like a Masi, Trek 520, or other such thing. Then send it to Bilinkey or such, for S&S install and a paint job. How far away are you from Co-motion or such and getting a better frame the stuff you want etc. from the very beginning.

Happy Feet

You have some strange need to continually suggest people should buy higher quality bikes than they have. That they could somehow do better, when in fact, they are actually touring and you are not. It comes off as a not to subtle put down of other peoples choices from someone who can't even be bothered to generate a credible impression with others on the forum by posting a simple picture.

fietsbob

so this is a personal Manifesto. do what you want , you dont need approval.

I made Fit changes to my 85 SBI expedition, and built my own wheels , bought the best racks and Bags available at the time.

about 400 miles if I drive to Portland and take I-5, to Eugene .. I used to live there for Many years , since before Co-Motion was founded .

[ GO Ducks !!]

shipwreck

mdilthey

Some people like taking a less expensive bike and slowly changing it to suit. That process that you see as a nuisance, I see as a hobby.

I got a great deal on a complete Pugsley, but I've spent hundreds on a new rear wheel and a drivetrain. Now I have all the stuff I need to mess with it, change the configuration based on the trip/season... I love doing that.

The bonus is, when I have my Pugsley in the stand for a (by many people's opinions, unnecessary) drivetrain swap, I clean the BB and the freehub body and the chain, and then I check the cables and adjust the preload on my headset and crank, and all these little actions keep my bikes running virtually like new regardless of how much mud and salt I'm riding through. It's a win-win!

I suspect if I had much more money to throw at bikes, I would have a titanium 29er. But, I would probably still have a steel Soma Double-Cross Disc because I like the ride quality of steel on a road/endurance bike, and I would probably still have a Pugsley as my off-road touring bike because I love the janky offset nonsense and the utility of steel, pockmarked with rack mounts and bottle cages, marred by hard use.

Bikes are tools.

saddlesores

i guess the difference is them touring folks be making changes to their
bikes based on their touring experience, not from reading about cool new
stuff in magazines. they spend their money cause it makes their bikes
better for them to tour on. pretty damn simple really.

while you be walking past your bike on the way to pee, they're off riding.
you've had "zombie killer" for nearly a month, and bolted on a mess of doodads you've "read about with interest." haven't heard much from you
'bout riding that beast.

shipwreck

Do you plan on letting anyone that you might actually meet in person while riding the trail what you think of their substandard bike choices? One of those crappy LHT's with a milk crate on the rear and a walmart bell basket on the front won't get even a nod, am I right? A cheapo Kona Sutra or Salsa Fargo, will they be met with such condescension in person as you have over time evinced on the touring forum? Or is it(hopefully)just reserved for the Internets?

And now, as Saddlesores mentioned, I am taking a long lunch to test out some of the changes I just made to my Cannondale in preparation for an UL trip I have coming up. More maintenance stuff than obsessive improvements, I've worn out the old front derailleur and one of the chain rings, its a shakedown to make sure I got the new stuff bolted on right.

MixedRider

The cost of a bike and components are best justified by utilization. If you don't know how to use it, who cares if it is a $5k bicycle.

For people just getting into touring, there are many awesome introductory bikes. You mention the Trek520. It is an awesome starting point. However, as people gain experience, they may find they want different components to be more comfortable or efficient touring. Going out and purchasing a $5k bike as a first touring bike w/o experience would not be financially feasible for most of us unless we knew exactly what we wanted.

Are the decisions on my touring bike the ideal bike for everyone? Definitely not. But I put in the time riding and touring to know that I made the correct decision for me. Based on your previous posts, you would think my bike is a POS, when I fact it is completely custom. Canti brakes! (OMG) One speed! (42x16? WTF) Steel! (Ancient material)

The worst bike you can buy is one that isn't ridden or breaks all the time. Just my opinion.

indyfabz

And we still haven't seen a photo.

BTW...Aside from the saddle, brake pads, stem and seat post, my LHT is stock and it does just fine.

bradtx

Touring bikes, when used, are often in a day after day after day duty cycle, encountering unfamiliar grades of ascents, in variable states of the cyclist's 'tune', and packing more weight than seen in most other niches of bicycling.

A road bike that is comfortable for an occasional century may not be so comfortable after a week of metrics, from personal experience. Fitment is the most critical dimension and garners a lot of attention and modification.

Drivetrain modifications are perhaps the second most modified aspect. I don't need a sub 20 GI bottom gear on my touring bike for the mostly flat land riding that I do, it's there for when I'm in the Texas Hill Country and carrying an extra 20-30 lb. of weight.

Brad

PS None of my bikes fit me exactly the same, though I have made my roadies a little less aggressive based on my experience with my touring bikes. I will also take the touring bike out for a ride just to stay accustomed to it's fit.

mdilthey

I do a lot more reading than touring. I also happen to tour, but I still read a LOT. It's a hobby. Nothing inherently wrong with reading about stuff and forming opinions.

saddlesores

see the difference? you do a lot of riding, and even more reading.
others? they do way too much reading, but no riding to speak of,
and yet try to present themselves as bikecycle experts.

mdilthey

Before I left on my first tour, I spent 8 months reading and talking and asking questions and arguing. Many people here probably even remember, I bet I was a lot more annoying back then! The end result? I was ready to go touring, and I was much better prepared and able to deal with the unknown.

I see a little gathering of "Hey! This guy doesn't tour!" and I would counter by saying, perhaps there's other insight he can have, and perhaps the conversations around his ideas will be educational for all.

HTupolev

Obviously the bike sits dormant until a zombie apocalypse occurs.

indyfabz

Nah. You're still just as annoying.

mdilthey

alan s 

Since 2011, other than the Troll frame bought at a store because I had to buy it there, all of my bikes and components were bought online. I'll buy consumables and clothing at a bike shop, but only if discounted. That way, I build what I want, and can usually get a decent price online. I just bought an entire 1x11 XT M8000 drivetrain and brakeset for less than $450, which will go on the 2011 Troll. Smokin' deal!

mantelclock

"He who studies medicine without books sails an uncharted sea, but he who studies medicine without patients does not go to sea at all." - William Osler

jefnvk

I mean, as one who has a great time on C&V bikes worth less in complete form than many people have into their pedals (and who thoroughly enjoys their comments about "the guy with the shifters on his tube" on charity rides when he goes right by them ), and who is building up a touring bike off something he got off CL for $85 that should fit all the requirements I have for my touring, I could ask that question a lot about most bikes people have.

In the end, I really don't care what others do with their money or time. I look to what others are doing for inspiration in solving any problems or optimizing any solution I may have, and that is the extent of my attention paid into what others do. People put things on their bike because they perceive a benefit from them. Whether or not that benefit is real is personal, subjective, and really matters little to me unless it is my bike.

mstateglfr 

@Squeezebox
I've read with interest about the stuff people have changed out on their touring bicycles. And I thought, "why spend the extra money?" I soon realized that I did very much the same thing, by changing brakes, shifters, cassette, tires, fenders, probably front rack/bags.

- Wow, all that was inferior at stock? You have continually used the argument that Trek engineers know better than you and most everyone else when it comes to spec'ing wheels, yet you changed all this stuff out?!?! Seriously? Do you not recognize that you are doing the very thing you were arguing against with the wheels? The Trek engineers know whats best for wheels, so naturally they also know whats best for brakes, shifters, cassette, tires, etc etc. This is downright hilarious. Oh my, this is too funny! Keep on Squeezin, Squeeze.




@Squeezebox
My guess is tourers modify their stuff more than any other group. Why is this neccessary?
Why is there so much modification of touring bicycles?

- Touring bikes lack a lot of component groupsets(or any for that matter) and so they are often spec'd a little too close to road bikes with a road triple not giving low enough gearing. Besides that change, most everything else I see if fit related(changed stem, bars, etc) to increase comfort.




@Squeezebox
So one big question is; If you go to buying a moderate frame and all the components, How far away financially are you from going to semi-custom? With the components you want and a much better quality frame?
2nd question; Is to buy a moderate bicycle like a Masi, Trek 520, or other such thing. Then send it to Bilinkey or such, for S&S install and a paint job. How far away are you from Co-motion or such and getting a better frame the stuff you want etc. from the very beginning.

- How many people are buying 520s and sending it for couplings and a new paint job?
Quick glance- a Comotion Americano with coupling and custom sizing is $4310 and thats with bar end shifters.
A Trek 520 disc is $1360. Bilenky charges $600 for coupling and itll cost $200 to powdercoat(locally) or $275 for Bilenky to match the current paint. So thats $2235 total when going with the more expensive paint match.
If you subtract $2235 from $4310, you get the cost difference. Since you couldnt manage to look this easily accessible info up, Ill go ahead and assume you also cant figure out the difference in cost. Its $2075. You are spending over $2000 less.





I really cant get over the irony that you argue Trek engineers are infallible when it comes to spec'ing wheels but you apparently know better with brakes, cassette, shifters, tires, and more.
For the umpteenth time- bike companies work to hit certain preset price points. Components(wheels being a component) are then spec'd to make that price point a reality. You changed out a bunch of components to your liking, yet not the wheels. Ha!

bikenh

Got you beat. Other than the tires I changed nothing on my Specialized Secteur before I took it on my 8400 mile trip last year. Granted I did replace two rear wheels and will have to replace the cassette before I leave for the trip this year. Otherwise it's still original. All I did was add the rack, not standard with the bike, put on the kitty litter buckets and add a homemade cue sheet holder to the handlebars. Okay since I ride clipless I guess you could say I changed the pedals but I consider that standard bike equipment in these days.

mantelclock

How did you load your Secteur? The reason I ask is because I have a Sequoia, which I tried touring on once and found it incredibly unstable due to short chainstays and a very light front end. I believe the Secteur is pretty much identical to the discontinued Sequoia. Have you posted a journal?

Rob_E

I'm having a little trouble teasing out the actual question/premise of the original post unless it is, as has suggested, just another way to take a dig at what the OP considers inferior bikes.

I will say that not everyone is in a position to buy a custom bike with their exact, preferred component set. Not everyone needs a custom frame. And many people learn by actually riding their bikes on tours or around town and then learning what changes they'd like to make. Why don't they just buy a custom bike with their exact choice of components? That seems like a pretty big risk (unless you have money to burn) if you don't have the experience to know what you want. Especially when it comes to a custom frame.

Personally, I feel like I'm a long ways away from getting a custom frame, partly because of the added expense, but partly because there's such a wide variety of frames available, that I'd have to want something really specific to not be able to find a frame to suit my needs.

I'd also agree with @alan s Alan S on the issue that choosing your own components does not necessarily mean spending more. If you know what you want, if you're patient, you can find the parts you want at the prices you want. I bought my last two bikes as frames and selected all the components myself. In both cases, I spent some time looking for deals, and built the initial bike out of parts on hand, replacing parts as I obtained the pieces I wanted. Not only was it cheaper than presenting a parts list to a builder, but it spread the cost out, and it made me much more aware of how everything went together. If I had gotten a quote on my "perfect" bike from the shop, I'd still be saving my pennies to get there. Instead I'm riding my bike.

Why do touring bikes get customized? It seems natural to me. I'm not one for road cycling as a sport, but as an outside observer, it seems like the goal is to go fast and keep things light. That's pretty clear cut, and while I am sure there are plenty of places where personal preference comes into play, with a common goal, it seems like it's going to be easier to make bikes that are ready to be ridden.

Meanwhile, what are the goals of a touring cyclist? Some people feel like they've made good progress if you've moved yourself 30 miles down the road by the end of the day. Some people feel like they haven't even gone anywhere if they don't at least do 100. Most people are in between. Some people carry a change of clothes and a credit card for the hotels. Some people carry everything they need to eat, sleep, and keep rolling indefinitely. Some people stay on pavement. Some people would stay off roads entirely if they could. And almost everyone has one idea about their riding preferences before they start, and different ideas once they've done it for a while.

How can there be a standard bike to cover those needs? And how can you know how your needs differ from the available bikes before you spend some time on them? I'd find it more surprising if we could all agree on a single bike and set of components. Nothing makes more sense to me than someone who chooses to spend a good amount of their day traveling by bike having opinions on how that bike should be put together.

indyfabz

Pedals don't count. My thing didn't come with pedals. I supplied my own and the shop put them on. A simply replacing a worn equipment doesn't count either. The OP is really referring to customizing things like drivetrains and such. I got rid of my seat post because I knew it sucked based on my experience with my previous LHT that was stolen. The teeth on the post wore down and the saddle would not stay level. The stem was too long, so that eventually got replaced, but not for a while. And saddle is usually a matter of preference.

bikenh

Simply put everything in the kitty liter buckets. I mounted the kitty liter buckets back at the end of the rack. I'm 6'3" with size 13, err 48-49 shoes so I have to make sure to give myself clearance. I did wrap a piece of velcro around the kitty liter buckets and the rack so I could both keep the kitty liter buckets back, so they wouldn't hit the feet, and also to keep them from bang against the rack at any point. I did have to wrap a bungee cord around the whole kitty liter bucket, only on one of them since the lid didn't want to stay on...didn't find that out until after I was already on the road so had to make the stop about 35 miles into the trip to buy the bungee. I also wrapped another bungee down over the hook bolts and then down over the bottom of the kitty liter bucket/the frame down buy the dropout to help make sure the bucket wouldn't do too much bouncing when going over holes in the road. Granted I did fall into a water filled pothole in WV and the bucket started to come off. Stopped and put it back on and then found I had the only flat front tire of the trip thanks to dropping into the hole. It's not that hard to keep them out of the way. Experiment with where you place the bucket on the rack. Like I said I moved mine all the way back and it gives plenty of clearance. Even after I had to replace the rack I was still able to get the new rack to let me mount the bucket out of the way.

I haven't kept an online journal. I generally post on the the Big Dogs(year round)...they are currently having issues with the web hosting company, but I only do a short write up even when on the trips.