cat0020

We can have the technologies that can satisfy all mankind's needs for resources,
only those who want to profit from the solutions unobtainable to keep profiting from what we currently use.
Over population is just another similar solutions as slavery; only modern day slavery is not in chains, but in debts.

50PlusCycling

So you want someone else to pay for the roads you use? That isn’t possible.

I will keep this simple, and as non-political as possible. First, it is impossible to isolate the effect of a tax to any income group, period. A tax on any member of the economy becomes a tax on every member of the economy, this is inevitable. A tax on any part of the economy is a tax on every part of the economy. If China increases their taxes on cooking oil used in restaurants located only in China, you, no matter where in the world you may live, will eventually pay part of that tax. This is undeniable, it is irrefutable. To attempt to do so puts you on the same level as people who believe the world is flat.

The top 15% of income earners in America pay 85% of all taxes collected, except that they don’t. Is that confusing? Read on. This 15% group employs most Americans, and provides most of the goods and services consumed. The taxes levied against them are largely offset by reducing pay and benefits, raising the cost of goods and services, or reducing their own consumption. In all of these cases, the cost of the taxes levied against them is passed on to everyone else, including you. If they are taxed at a higher rate, you pay that tax.

When it comes to the wealth rich people acquire, what do they do with it? They don’t stuff it in mattresses, they don’t hide it in vaults. Their money is put in banks, it is invested in funds, in short, it is distributed throughout the economy. Their savings and deposits fund mortgages, business and car loans, the construction of factories, buildings, ships, and everything else. They put their money in places where it will increase in value, and that increase in value is shared by every member of the economy, whether they realize it or not.

Who builds private jets, yachts, and works in the race horse industry? Lots of people who aren’t rich. In case you are not aware, a luxury tax was levied against such things back in the 80’s. Supporters of the tax claimed that it would raise much-needed revenue from those who had too much by taxing their toys. This was not the case. Tens of thousands of people lost their jobs, tax revenues fell, and Washington scrambled to rescind the tax. Many of the workers affected lived in the American South, and some claim that one of the side effects of this tax was the political conversion of the Southern states, which had been democrat for more than a century, to the republican party.

The point I made about the Interstate Highway system vs California’s new train is important. The interstate system was built efficiently and economically, and it has created far more value than that which was used to build it. In those days infrastructure projects were certainly corrupt, but not excessively, while today’s infrastructure projects are corrupt to a Zimbabwean scale. Rather than adding value to the economy, too much of today’s public spending creates huge losses in value. If this weren’t the case, and such projects actually added value than their cost, there would be no such thing as long-term deficit spending, and no government debt. How much does it cost today to build a new Navy ship, a new fighter plane, or, like in California’s case, a new high-speed rail system?

The problem with infrastructure and other things is not a lack of funds, but the rampant misuse of those funds, in which most of the money vanishes into the pockets of the politically-connected, and only a scant fraction is spent on the projects themselves. California’s new train was supposed to cost $33 billion, then the estimate was raised to $50 billion, then $100 billion, now it is estimated to cost $128 billion. At the current rate of delays and overruns, it’s possible (likely) the train will eventually cost more than $200 billion. Such losses are not the exception in state-funded projects, they are the norm.

I live in Japan, where people think differently. The tax rate in Japan is not so progressive, and here everyone pays. That is seen as only fair. If you want public safety, smooth roads, and good schools, you need to do your part to pay for them, you can’t expect others to pay for you.

Oh, and the top rate in the 50’s was more than 90%, but the effective rate, what people actually paid, was lower than it is today.

shelbyfv

There I was thinking a stake had been put through the heart of Trickle Down.

50PlusCycling

If you thought that, be careful not to walk too close to the edge of the earth, you wouldn’t want to fall off.

cat0020

Not possible? Most drivers pay into roads that they never drive on.

While most Americans predominantly live off the income they earn from a job—
income that is taxed all year, every year—
the very richest households live lavishly off capital gains that may never be taxed.
Small, ultra-rich fraction of U.S. society is sitting on more unrealized capital gains than the bottom 84% of the country—
roughly 110 million households—combined

Examining recently released data Federal Reserve data (https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm)
for 2022, Americans for Tax Fairness (ATF) found that the roughly 64,000 U.S. households with at least $100 million in wealth
—less than 0.05% of the population—controlled more than one in every six dollars of the country's "unrealized gains,"
profits that aren't taxable until the underlying asset, such as a stock position, is sold.

But the ultra-wealthy don't need to sell to benefit:
They can live off low-cost loans secured against their growing fortunes.
And once inherited, such gains disappear completely for tax purposes.
While most Americans predominantly live off the income they earn from a job
—income that is taxed all year, every year—
the very richest households live lavishly off capital gains that may never be taxed.
These small, ultra-rich fraction of U.S. society is sitting on more unrealized capital gains than
the bottom 84% of the country—roughly 110 million households—combined.

shelbyfv

There are people who understand these things. LSE on trickle down Staying in our own lanes helps avoid embarrassment.

cat0020

Here's the reason we need a wealth tax:
World’s five richest men have doubled their wealth since 2020

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/15/worl...020-oxfam.html

jon c. 

Simple for sure. Unfortunately simple doesn't make it correct.

You failed on the latter count.

Leisesturm

Interesting. I saw an article predicting the worlds first Trillionaire in about 10 years. Because the mainstream media bats around terms like Billion and Trillion with such apparent ease it has devalued the awe that should be accorded such sums. It is patently false that the wealthy are underwriting Civilization. The wealth that is seen in public works is mainly LONG DEAD wealthy people, and it is maintained by ours: the Middle Class. The wealth of the living ultra wealthy is in tax havens. It buys nothing, funds nothing, does nothing. It could, but we don't have the political will to go after it. Sports cars, Yachts and Football Teams are ridiculous markers for wealth. You don't need to be a Billionaire to have a Yacht.

cat0020

Their wealth buy SuperPACs, influence elections to promote their own agenda.
There are politicians that have the political will to change things, but without PAC money, likely they don't get elected into office.
Overturn Citizen United, disclose ALL financial contributions to campaigns.
Or better yet, impose equal amount of public fund to each candidate, zero private contributions allowed.
Every candidate is allowed the same amount of media coverage, divest ALL assets while in office. .
Zero conflict of interest allowed, maybe that could apply to SCOTUS and get Clarence Thomas kicked out.

No, you don't need to be a billionaire to have a yacht, but there are plenty of ways that millionaires & billionaire avoid paying taxes (write-offs, donations, etc)
Besides, plenty of taxpayer money go into billionaire (or millionaire)'s businesses in form of grants, contracts, subsities or special loans,
middle class or lower class never even have a chance to receive.
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon...arcity-2021-12
But hey, at least we have ebike batteries going up in flames to worry about.

nomadmax 

Are we still talking about the practicality of e bikes vs motorcycles? I can't tell.

Leisesturm

It should be obvious we are not. Try to keep up willya?

cb400bill

This thread has veared wildly off topic and into politics.

Thread closed.