Why don't (old?) bike designs have slotted stems or bike posts?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Why don't (old?) bike designs have slotted stems or bike posts?
Being a bike maintenance noob, I think I might have spent upward of an hour every time I readjust the stem. I always feel like it's not aligned and I get stuck in a loop trying to realign it, overshoot, repeat. If the fork is simply manufactured with a slottle tip so that the stem can only fit onto it one way and fully aligned, then there will be no problems.
Has anyone ever attempted it? If not, was it a structural strength issue? or manufacturing cost?
Bike posts have this issue too, but aligning it s much easier because you can just look at the bike tube for reference.
Has anyone ever attempted it? If not, was it a structural strength issue? or manufacturing cost?
Bike posts have this issue too, but aligning it s much easier because you can just look at the bike tube for reference.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,601
Bikes: 06 Lemond Reno, 98 GT Timberline mtn.bike
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 427 Post(s)
Liked 700 Times
in
436 Posts
As to bike posts (assuming means seat post)--not everyone rides with their seat pointed exactly straight ahead-some will have it angled a little to the left or right. Forks are made with the steerers longer than needed, to fit whatever bike they are to be used on. Head tubes are not all the same length, and the fork steerer must be cut to size to fit the bike. A slot, if it went all the way down the steerer tube might catch and/or rub on loose bearings. My take on it, anyway.
Likes For freeranger:
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
As to bike posts (assuming means seat post)--not everyone rides with their seat pointed exactly straight ahead-some will have it angled a little to the left or right. Forks are made with the steerers longer than needed, to fit whatever bike they are to be used on. Head tubes are not all the same length, and the fork steerer must be cut to size to fit the bike. A slot, if it went all the way down the steerer tube might catch and/or rub on loose bearings. My take on it, anyway.
Oh, i keep my stem snugged up but not so tight that it can't turn in a fall whilst riding. If the stem was keyed to the fork I couldn't do that. Being able to do that has save a handlebar from serious damage a couple of time over the decades.
Cheers
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
Try closing one eye while you align your handlebars.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
#5
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,517
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2747 Post(s)
Liked 3,401 Times
in
2,058 Posts
Before you take it apart put a dot on the stem and headset with a sharpie and line them back up when you reinstall
Likes For dedhed:
#6
Half way there
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,957
Bikes: Many, and the list changes frequently
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 987 Post(s)
Liked 880 Times
in
527 Posts
I've never seen a stem with a slottle tip. I'm also incredibly surprised that the term slottle was not torpedoed by the forum censor.
Likes For Moe Zhoost:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,909
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4806 Post(s)
Liked 3,932 Times
in
2,557 Posts
I center the tire on the front of the stem, then check to make sure the amount of spoke showing on either side of the tire is identical. (A tiny bit off makes for a big difference in seen spoke lengths.)
Like many, I set my seats a little to the left. Also used to set my my right brake hood inboard. Now I do both. (Helps after broken collar bones. I've done both sides and am back to symmetrical.)
Like many, I set my seats a little to the left. Also used to set my my right brake hood inboard. Now I do both. (Helps after broken collar bones. I've done both sides and am back to symmetrical.)
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,974
Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 2007 Dahon Boardwalk, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International, 2006 Felt F65, 1989 Dahon Getaway V
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 1,678 Times
in
827 Posts
A seatpost "slottle" would preclude "dressing left" or "dressing right".
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Richfield, WI
Posts: 720
Bikes: Trek Domane SL7 Disc, Cannondale F29
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times
in
186 Posts
I totally agree with you, OP.
I've been a bike-o-holic for over 30 years (since BMX bikes in the early 80's) and can't believe that with all the advances in technology and all the changes to "standards", a standard hasn't arisen to simply make handlebar alignment a no-brainer task. As you stated, a simple channel in the fork tube and a corresponding bump in the stem clam would resolve this alignment issue.
I've watched all sorts of videos for tips on how to align handlebars and haven't been happy with any of them as they all pretty much come down to "eyeballing" the handlebars against some other parallel object and I always feel like my bars still aren't straight. I would think that Park would've devised some kind of tool for quickly aligning the bars so as to save mechanics a lot of time, but nope... no such tool exists.
My 2020 Trek Domane finally alleviated the seat-post alignment issue as the seat post is not round so it only fits on the bike completely straight. Back-in-the-day when aftermarket parts were a bigger deal (and most bike frames where round-tubed steel), people would balk at the idea of a non-round, non-standard seat post as that prevented using aftermarket parts. Today's bikes come in all shapes and sizes due to their carbon make-up and whatever post the bike comes with is usually the one that stays... so I'm glad that Trek finally killed the round seat post on my bike.
I've been a bike-o-holic for over 30 years (since BMX bikes in the early 80's) and can't believe that with all the advances in technology and all the changes to "standards", a standard hasn't arisen to simply make handlebar alignment a no-brainer task. As you stated, a simple channel in the fork tube and a corresponding bump in the stem clam would resolve this alignment issue.
I've watched all sorts of videos for tips on how to align handlebars and haven't been happy with any of them as they all pretty much come down to "eyeballing" the handlebars against some other parallel object and I always feel like my bars still aren't straight. I would think that Park would've devised some kind of tool for quickly aligning the bars so as to save mechanics a lot of time, but nope... no such tool exists.
My 2020 Trek Domane finally alleviated the seat-post alignment issue as the seat post is not round so it only fits on the bike completely straight. Back-in-the-day when aftermarket parts were a bigger deal (and most bike frames where round-tubed steel), people would balk at the idea of a non-round, non-standard seat post as that prevented using aftermarket parts. Today's bikes come in all shapes and sizes due to their carbon make-up and whatever post the bike comes with is usually the one that stays... so I'm glad that Trek finally killed the round seat post on my bike.
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
So it's more of a fitting and freedom thing than an engineering issue. I never thought of that before. Always thought bikes should be perfectly symmetrical, but then human bodies are not really that symmetrical. Interesting point.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
Cheers
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 6,016
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 923 Times
in
569 Posts
Stems and seatposts frequently get stuck from corrosion,
Not being able to rotate the parts would make it much harder to deal with that.
Not being able to rotate the parts would make it much harder to deal with that.
#13
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,699 Times
in
2,519 Posts
You would need a puller to get them out if they were keyed. Virtually impossible for a seatpost without some extra design elements.
#14
Junior Samples
I thought I was, if not the only one, in a very small minority by not having my seat perfectly straight. I have learned that we are a community!
We need to demand our rights, but let's not let a left-vs-right schism develop.
My handlebars are perfectly aligned, handlebar 90 degrees to the axis of the wheel, but I would not want something in place that had to shear in the event of a mishap. I want the stem to rotate in the steerer tube.
My seat lug has a vertical point at the front. A long time ago I put a dimple right at the top of that point so that I could easily R&R the seat post and get it back in place at the proper height and alignment. I R&R the seat post every couple of years and clean the inside and apply a bit of grease to the seat post before it goes back in. Just maintenance.
We need to demand our rights, but let's not let a left-vs-right schism develop.
My handlebars are perfectly aligned, handlebar 90 degrees to the axis of the wheel, but I would not want something in place that had to shear in the event of a mishap. I want the stem to rotate in the steerer tube.
My seat lug has a vertical point at the front. A long time ago I put a dimple right at the top of that point so that I could easily R&R the seat post and get it back in place at the proper height and alignment. I R&R the seat post every couple of years and clean the inside and apply a bit of grease to the seat post before it goes back in. Just maintenance.
#16
Senior Member
In the past, manufacturing tolerances- especially of small scale, handmade frames- meant that alignment wouldn't be that great. It seems that any alignment features would often be more troublesome than helpful, and they would just add unnecessary labor and cost.
Also, any slot on the steerer tube would make it weaker and increase the chance of failure, unless the steerer were made thicker and heavier. Sure, old style threaded steerer tubes did have slots on them, but those slots weren't much deeper than the external threading, and the quill stem reinforced that area.
With practice, you should be able to align the handlebar in under a minute to, say half a degree. Longer if you need it even straighter.
There is at least one laser handlebar alignment tool- not made by Park- available on the market, in addition to one you can 3D print yourself.
Also, any slot on the steerer tube would make it weaker and increase the chance of failure, unless the steerer were made thicker and heavier. Sure, old style threaded steerer tubes did have slots on them, but those slots weren't much deeper than the external threading, and the quill stem reinforced that area.
With practice, you should be able to align the handlebar in under a minute to, say half a degree. Longer if you need it even straighter.
There is at least one laser handlebar alignment tool- not made by Park- available on the market, in addition to one you can 3D print yourself.
#17
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 128
Bikes: Trek Domane SLR 2019, Trek Trek Madone 5.1 (2011), Trek 1400 (1991)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times
in
33 Posts
Being a bike maintenance noob, I think I might have spent upward of an hour every time I readjust the stem. I always feel like it's not aligned and I get stuck in a loop trying to realign it, overshoot, repeat. If the fork is simply manufactured with a slottle tip so that the stem can only fit onto it one way and fully aligned, then there will be no problems.
Has anyone ever attempted it? If not, was it a structural strength issue? or manufacturing cost?
Bike posts have this issue too, but aligning it s much easier because you can just look at the bike tube for reference.
Has anyone ever attempted it? If not, was it a structural strength issue? or manufacturing cost?
Bike posts have this issue too, but aligning it s much easier because you can just look at the bike tube for reference.
#18
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,517
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2747 Post(s)
Liked 3,401 Times
in
2,058 Posts
#19
Senior Member
A ruler, tape measure or piece of string will work.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,763
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,200 Times
in
760 Posts
Honest question: those of you that are bothered by slightly off handlebars when you're in the shop (garage, basement, living room) adjusting them - does it really actually bother you once you get moving on the road? Do you squint down the stem to the tire and make sure it's lined up? Do you think it affects your fun, speed, whatever? Or do you just ride and steer the bike right or left as needed and it's the last thing on your mind?
Handlebars need only be square enough, and that isn't very precise, frankly. If you're noticing a tiny bit off , that eyeballing it isn't good enough, well, they make medication for that. Just kind of kidding. When I'm initially adjusting bars, I've noticed handlebars slightly off and it bothers me enough to try to get it better. But I've never actually noticed it while riding. or if I do, I don't care. But I'm not OCD, a trained scientist or engineer.... far, far from it.
Many have also mentioned off center saddles as a fit issue. I do the same. It helps my ergonomics. I also have my brake lever hoods adjusted differenlty on the bars since my right arm can't go as straight as my left (which also can't go straight).
Handlebars need only be square enough, and that isn't very precise, frankly. If you're noticing a tiny bit off , that eyeballing it isn't good enough, well, they make medication for that. Just kind of kidding. When I'm initially adjusting bars, I've noticed handlebars slightly off and it bothers me enough to try to get it better. But I've never actually noticed it while riding. or if I do, I don't care. But I'm not OCD, a trained scientist or engineer.... far, far from it.
Many have also mentioned off center saddles as a fit issue. I do the same. It helps my ergonomics. I also have my brake lever hoods adjusted differenlty on the bars since my right arm can't go as straight as my left (which also can't go straight).
#21
Senior Member
^ Agreed with the poster above. Although I always try aligning everything the best I can, I have never actually felt any minute offset while riding. In fact, sometime ago I discovered that I had ridden for well over a year with my handlebar 5mm off center, resulting in one side of it being 1cm wider than the other (flat bar, 640mm length). I never noticed it, and I didn't feel any change in handling after I centered the handlebar.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,909
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4806 Post(s)
Liked 3,932 Times
in
2,557 Posts
I just has a rather amusing thought - our handlebars being a mm or three off to one side makes absolutely no difference to anything on the bike while riding except to that grey blob between our ears, Yet it is so important that we be able to dial it in exactly because it we detect the slightest bit off, it may bug us to crazy over a 5 hour ride! (And if we didn't looked down, we would never know.)
It's like missing the dish on a wheel by a couple of mm. Yes, it matters to swapping wheels cleanly. And tire clearance on very close bikes. But for the rest? Just grey matter stuff. Right up there with drive-side photos, correct locations of labels, etc.
Ben
It's like missing the dish on a wheel by a couple of mm. Yes, it matters to swapping wheels cleanly. And tire clearance on very close bikes. But for the rest? Just grey matter stuff. Right up there with drive-side photos, correct locations of labels, etc.
Ben