Cicaletta

Has anyone ridden both a Brompton (preferably 6-speed model) and Bike Friday bike? I'm shopping for my first folding bike, and like pretty much everything about the Brompton except the derailleur system, which feels awkward to me. I live in eastern Canada, and don't know anyone who has a BF I could try out.

fietsbob

I own a Bike Friday Pocket Llama with an IGH; 14 speeds .. It does have a chain tensioner but not a RD.
Benefit no RD to bang up when folded and the chain-tensioner pulley is a long ways up from the Ground.
long cage DR's get real close (especially with Tikit's 16" wheels )

my Brommy got a BSR 3 speed and a 2 speed crank , the 4th to 3rd gear change is a double shift. heel button shifts the range on the crank to low,

then the 3 speed lever is switched to High. 6 speeds over a nice wide range . chain stays in place on hub and crank .

in Low the crankarms turn faster than the chainring.

ShortLegCyclist

Bike Friday derailleur systems are industry standard designs, while the 6 speed Brompton is a two speed derailleur and three speed internal hub (Brompton Wide Range) hybrid system and is unique to Brompton.

The Bike Friday system, since it uses regular components, is generally going to be a lot smoother, a lot easier to maintain and upgrade and give you enormously more gearing range than any Brompton, unless you find one of the rare Brompton's converted to Rohloff (requires a special new rear triangle made by one shop in England).

The beauty of a Bike Friday is that they are custom made and when you walk through the design process with them, they will have you give them the exact measurements of your current favorite bicycle. That doesn't have to be one you necessarily even own, though if you bring a tape measure and protractor to your local bike shop they might get a little suspicious. So you can't test ride a Bike Friday where you are for how it rides, but they can basically make it feel and fit like any given other bicycle when stationary.

In motion, the only real differences I noted were the smaller wheels make starting easier but you don't get as much speed on downhills, there is no top tube which looks and feels strange at first, and steering is much more responsive than any 700c, 26" or 650b bicycle (some call that twitchy steering).

You get a high end derailleur system like DuraAce or SRAM Red and you will note it shifts just as butter smooth as on larger wheeled bikes. The Brompton derailleur system is not even in the same ballpark.

tcs

Comparing derailleur gears on the 349mm (16") wheeled Brompton with BikeFriday's 349mm wheeled tikit? The tikit uses - as mentioned - a regular, off-the-shelf drivetrain of a 53T chainwheel driving an 11-28T cassette. Combined with those 16" wheels, this gives a top gear ratio of only 77 gear inches.

Brompton's 2-speed and 2x3 hybrid gearing systems, with their proprietary rear derailleur and shifter, is awkward. It's inexplicable to me why they don't ditch the derailleur and offer 2-, 5- and 8-speed IGH models.

Sixty Fiver

I perform regular servicing on Bromptons and Bike Fridays and have spent a fair amount of time with the 6 speed as well as the basic derailleur set ups on the Bike Friday, and the dual drive systems.

I have A SRAM dual drive on my recumbent and a 2 by 9 drive on my own custom folder and plan to upgrade that to a SRAM, 9 speed dual drive... a 2 speed crank might also get thrown into the mix.

There is no comparison between the Brompton's 6 speed and the options you can get on a Bike Friday which can offer enough range for touring... the Bike Friday is also a more comfortable bicycle (for most) and better suited for more saddle time.

If your riding is going to be urban and you really want a quick compact fold, the Brompton is the best choice, the 6 speed (which is a dual drive) provide an acceptable range but takes a little getting used to... it is a fairly rugged system too.

Winfried

As you can expect, Brompton made that decision after checking the alternatives.

With such tiny wheels, a derailleur isn't a good idea. And alternative IGHs with 6+ speeds are wider, while the first reason people buy a Brompton is precisely because it folds very compact.

Besides, those other IGHs are heavier.

So, the 2x3 solution, altough a bit awkward, is a good compromise in terms of width, weight, and price. Now, if SRAM, SA, Shimano, or Rolhoff can come up with a 120mm IGH that offers 6+ speeds without adding more weight than the current setup…

If you need a lower development, you can simply replace the chainwheel with a 50/34 like I did, and get down to 1.8m which is enough to climb 12% grade roads.


https://books.google.fr/books?ie=UTF-8&vid=1901464253

jur

Comparing a bf to a Brompton based on the derailer is not the brightest of moves. If the derailer is a very important aspect to you, then don't look at the Brompton. Mine works very well but it is only 2 speed.

What would be a better move is to think exactly what you intend to use it for. The Brompton is a brilliant shopping and commuting bike, if the distance is not much beyond 10km. Beyond that, a faster bike becomes appealing. BF in other words.

Or, a Ti Swift.

invisiblehand

Hmmmm ... why are you looking for a folding bike?

My quick take is that someone that really wants a Brompton won't be happy with a Bike Friday and vice versa.

That said, if you want to try out a Bike Friday, I'd call the company. They often know of folks with such bikes in the area and will make arrangements to see or test ride them.

Or, since it appears you're in Toronto, you might try to find Vik. He has a NWT and a tikit.

https://vikapproved.wordpress.com/

fietsbob

I Was reading Vic as being in BC.. on the west coast..

invisiblehand

Ahhh ... that's too bad.

Cicaletta

Yes, usage is key here. My main interest in a folder is to put it in a hard-shell case and take to France, then potter around in Brittany, mostly on "voies vertes" (off-road paths that are often former railway lines or canal tow-paths, so relatively level). I wouldn't be weighing it down with gear.
I'm sure I'd also end up using it at home occasionally, e.g., throwing it in a car or on a bus sometimes for day-trips in boring old southern Ontario.

Is your comment re: people being either a Brompton or a Bike Friday person based on components, or overall design/folding?

ShortLegCyclist

IMO that description is exactly what Bike Fridays excel at.

Bromptons are basically city bikes to me, ideal for mixed mode commuting, popping in and out of trains and buses, definitely not ideal for off road trail riding.

1nterceptor

I've done all the things you mentioned with my folding bike; I think the Brompton would fit the bill nicely.

I'm on my 2nd 6 speed Brompton now. I liked the 1st one so much; I bought a 2nd lighter one(titanium)
and sold the first. Don't worry too much about the B'ton gearing; it becomes 2nd nature after a while. In
this video; I'm riding a Brompton I just bought 10 minutes earlier. Saw a local club and joined in. The sales
lady gave me a 2 minute lesson on how to shift:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jea4...6zPoymgKaIoDLA

In this video; I did most of what you plan to do with a folder. Packed the bike in a cardboard box for a 6 hour flight;
went off road on some hard pack dirt and got a ride in the trunk of a car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNuu...IoDLA&index=23

Sixty Fiver

Cicaletta,

Just a head up...

My friend is selling his Dahon Speed TT for an exceptional price, I sent you a PM.

This is a 30 speed folder with a 9 by 3 rear drive and upgrades to the shifting system (Ultegra 10 speed) and it also comes with quite a few extra sets of high performance tyres.

If you or anyone was looking for a higher performance lightweight folder (21 pounds) he is asking less than what you'd have to pay for a Brompton or Bike Friday.

Looks like this (stock photo)

tds101 

I never realized how sweet a Bike Friday is:

blakcloud

This to me is the best descriptions of a Brompton. You certainly don't buy it because of the shifting system but for the fold and the panache of owning a Brompton.

Ask yourself what are you going to be using the bike for "most of the time?" Then buy a bike that fits those needs because it will handle the odd request you make of it.

I am a Toronto Brompton owner and use mine infrequently but if I need to bike and use the subway, my Brompton is my go to bike. If I take a quick car trip to boring South Ontario, my Brompton is thrown in the car or in the bottom of a Mega-Bus (in a Dimpa bag). I have used my Brompton for gravel path rides and I wouldn't do that again unless I didn't have a choice.

At any rate they are both well built bikes, so you can't lose with either of them.

Joe Remi

I have a Bike Friday which I bought mostly for the ride; occasionally for the fold. It folds down nicely to put in my little Fiat, but it's best done at a leisurely pace. I bought it for its ride and 18-speed derailleur drivetrain and love it, but Brompton is the way to go if an easy, small fold is important to you.

invisiblehand

Fundamentally, a Bike Friday and a Brompton bike are good at different things. So it's not about the person. Rather it's about what they want to do with the bike. I know a few folks that have a Bike Friday and a Brompton and pick the bike that best fits what they need to do at that moment.

In short, the more that you do longer rides and the less that you care about a tiny compact fold, the better the Bike Friday. If you're more concerned about travelling on crowded buses and subways and taking the bike into restaurants and such, I'd push you towards the Brompton.

The other general concern is about fit. Generally a Bike Friday can accommodate a lot more body types and riding styles.

Sixty Fiver

I have a Dahon Mk5 which is as compact and nearly as quick a fold as a Brompton and it is useful for travel and places likes buses and trains... my P20 is most similar to a Bike Friday and is designed to tour and commute with less of a need to break it down.

fietsbob

Brompton has a wide range 3 speed IGH and with 2 sprockets, half steps its 3 speeds to make a closer ratio 6 speed ...

Bike Friday uses any gearing you are willing to pay for , each bike is built, like a short order cook ,
as it comes up in the order Queue.

one thing Brompton and the BF Tikit share is wheel size 349 .. 16"