WGB 

I purchased a Batavus Professional frame set and discovered it is French-threaded. . This means that both headset and bottom bracket will need to be French-threaded.

I had collected up a "group set" that includes a Rally Rd and a triplizer Strada crankset and would like to use these.

Problem I face is that French threaded bottom brackets cups are thin on the ground and when found, expensive. Cartridges bottom bracket selections with French-thread (especially for a triple) are even rarer, and if found are even more money. Velo Orange for example doesn't seem to have any 122mm ones in stock anymore. 122 was as wide as I have seen. Too bad because the Velobase ones were only $50. I do see some very cheap Chinese cartridge BB's but i assume you get a poor quality one for a cheap price.

Does anyone know of a source for a longer French-threaded cartridge? Also, does anyone know what size cartridge I'd need?

If I go with a conventional cup and spindle set up, does anyone know how long a bottom bracket spindle I will need? Bottom bracket is 67.8mm, so it's a 68mm I need if that helps for calculations.

Because the Strada started life as a double, does it have to move as far out as a triple that started life as a triple? I would assume so, but I don't want to have buy up random Campagnolo tapered spindles until I find the correct length. Velobase shows varying lengths for British or Italian threaded spindles for the varying Campagnolo cranks but rarely shows a length for French BB's and when those are shown, they are different from a British or Italian thread.

Presumably, the bottom bracket could be re-threaded to Italian threading but I would prefer to avoid that as the re-tapping will remove material and weaken the threads.

Here are the cranks for reference.

merziac

@WGB

While I only use China cartridge BB's as a last resort, I think the quality is ok/satisfactory at the very least, they've been making most of them for a long time.

The low cost factor in IMO could facilitate stocking up on say the 3 closet sizes so you may be likely to hit the mark.

79pmooney

A note on older cup and cone bottom brackets. Many were not symmetrical; having the left crank sit closer in than the right. And, at least on some, that left crank offset changed with spindle length. This means that if you wanted to say push the crank out 3 mm, it wasn't always as simple as just ordering a spindle that was 3mm longer or 2 x 3mm = 6mm longer. You had to actually hold them in your hand and measure them and compare. (Race to end for each side.)

The joke being that BBs, like so much of bicycles over their history, are made to standards. Really good standards. And lots of them.

Edit: And this assumes you are using entire matched BBs. Mix and match and another element comes into play. The thickness and shapes of the races which affect where that spindle sits in relation to the fixed cup and directly affecting where the driveside crank sits.

79pmooney

So the unused ones get stashed in the closet?

merziac

Yep, the closest closet.

Correct, for future futzing, sussing and hopefully expediting more such consternation

I have many spindles and cups just for this purpose so I can quickly resolve issues at home when I'm working on them and avoid undue delays.

I regularly go to the co-op for a few cheap spindles to use in test fitting and often find what I need in the pile at which point I'm done with that and can move on without waiting on the wrong thing or having to run around and lose focus.

chain_whipped

True, they're not easy to source. Its been awhile but had acquired NOS cartridge type F.A.G. with Delrin housing, Swiss made. Incredible cheap for $15 plus shipping. Ebay seller was in the US with a small stock, English, French, Italian threaded versions. The lock ring wrench can be had for $12 / China made.

Also, but as a steel housing these same bottom brackets are sometimes offered from a Swiss maker Nadex. Not cheap.

chain_whipped

Ps. The old standard of never to grease the spindle to crank square taper was stated by Tullio himself.

WGB 

Thank you.

I just went through quite a waste of time trying to source an Italian threaded BB for my Miele.
Finally found one and now this!

I will probably buy a cheap BB, simply so I can ride it and see what I think of how the bike handles.

Might also try the trade thread and see if someone has a spare set of french cups. I may luck out.

If I do keep this bike, I'll be adding a set of water bottle bosses and it gets a repaint and new stickers. Maybe I'll have ye locale frame builder add some brass into the threads then retap it then to 1.37, before the paint goes on.

merziac

I rarely use a matched set, few complete ones as it is and the hunt and peck method has never failed me long or short term.

I have always managed to make fairly short work of it with enough options on hand at any given time, it ain't rocket surgery but it does help to have some experience, the right mindset and plenty of options on hand.

Fredo76

Phil Wood makes mounting rings for all threads. The rings allow variation in where the BB cartridge sits, left to right. When I tripilized my NR crank using a Red Clover, I had juuust enough clearance for the third ring, with the cartridge still in the center. It can be moved off-center by a few mm if needed.




My frame-building powder coater was astonished at how buttery smooth my 48 year old Phil Wood sealed bottom bracket felt, too.

79pmooney

The secret "with enough options on hand". That you can dry fit on the workbench and measure. The other approach that works very well but isn't cheap - get your hands on a long Shimano BB. Install and mount your cranks on it. Now measure how much further in or out you want each crank. Deduct (or add) these numbers to the Shimano spindle. Order that from Phil Wood. (And the tools unless you know someone with.) Now you have exactly the spindle and crank location you want, it will outlast your offspring and it will only cost you a mortgage payment or two.

bulgie 

"Triplizer" isn't strictly defined (in any dictionary I know of), but I think your crank is just a triple. It started out as a triple, where triplizer to me implies it was turned into a triple after it left the factory.

I see you have an actual Jim Merz 31t granny ring, congrats! A rare and wonderful thing.

There are lots of vintage BBs that'll work, besides the correct Campy which are still around if you have time and patience to search. Others to look for include Specialized, Avocet, Gipemme, Sugino Mighty Tour or Shimano XT 70 mm with a shim.

(Photo courtesy of Robert Freeman)

The trick there is use French cups, which are made for a 68 mm BB, with a 2 mm spacer under the fixed cup. Here's one on ebay, used. For some reason, despite the spindle being 70 mm, it comes with English cups, which you will set aside to use French cups. Most any French cups will work such as Campy or Sugino as well as Shimano.

That same 70 -> 68 mm trick can work with some other brands too, even a Campy 2x spindle in 70 mm + 2 mm spacer. Which will put your crank closer to the chainstay than Tullio intended, but it often works, depending on whether the stay is indented for chainring clearance, where and how deep. IMHO "perfect" chainline is a myth and triples often suit me better when set up (intentionally or not) narrower than "correct". As long as the granny clears the chainstay by any amount at all I'm good, even a whisker is enough unless your frame is super flexy? I've never had one that cleared in the stand but rubbed on the road, doesn't seem to ever actually happen.

Here's a Campy triple mounted on a 2x spindle — which we know because it's Super Record, and those were never made in triple.


Severely deep indent, but that's for a 36t inner. Your 31t requires a bit less indent, plus this bike didn't get the 2 mm spacer trick. (it couldn't because the frame is Italian, and that trick only works on 68 mm BBs)

I have also used Stronglight BBs on Campy triples a couple times, worked fine though I don't remember what if any adjustments it took. Some later vintage ('80s?) sealed bearing Stronglights have adjustable cups with lockrings on both sides, allowing for chainline fine-tuning.

And of course there's still the venerable Phil Wood, still made. Some people have said you can use Phil French rings on other brands of cartridge BBs such as Shimano UN-xx, but I haven't tried that myself. Phil can help you order the correct one, which I believe will be ~119 mm asymmetric, longer on the right.

Mark B

WGB 

I have the bottom bracket cleared up. Just need to find a headset.

Thanks all.

merziac

Well, you're quite right, the more the merrier but many times I have solved the puzzle with only three good candidates on hand although I always try to have more.

I have gotten lucky plenty of times and quickly leaned in and got the hang of it very early on, again, IMO, it ain't rocket surgery.

WGB 

The story of the train wreck.

I recently had bought a set of used VAR taps that were British threaded.

Turns out they weren't British, turns out they were Swiss! Unfortunately, I didn't know that and so initially, I just assumed the BB was not British. After all, the tool couldn't be wrong.

I went to see a friend who had several sets of taps. I then threaded on a set of taps that fit. He said they were french.

Identification solved.

Wrong identification.

I went home and posted this thread. My friend emailed and said something was wrong because he had realized I had used his British taps!

Recheck and we discovered my taps were Swiss!!!

I have never seen a Swiss BB in my life. I traded him for a spare set of British taps.

Lesson learned.

jonwvara 

I think that's correct. You can see in the OP's original photo that the flutings on the spider arms stop short of the drilled and tapped holes that secure the inner ring. That was the case on the factory versions, I believe. Double cranks had longer flutings, so when the arms are drilled and tapped for a third ring, those holes are located with the flutes.

Hproduguidon

I have the same crankset on my eddy merckx with the campagnolo bdp at italian pitch. I'll measure the axle for you.

JohnDThompson 

It looks to be a high-end bike; perhaps you can justify splurging on a Phil Wood bottom bracket?

The Campagnolo triple spindle was 122mm long, so that's what I'd suggest. Phil bottom brackets can be adjusted laterally to optimize chainline.

JohnDThompson 

Retapping to Italian does not weaken the threads; in fact, you need to ream the shell before tapping, which completely removes the old threads. The taps will cut full-depth Italian threads.

Hproduguidon

WGB 

Installed a 122mm cartridge and it fits perfectly.

I'm just going to build it so I can see how it rides. The paint is really rough along the top tube with some small sib-paint rust pitting. Assuming it's a keeper my choice will be repaint or chrome the whole frame.