Steve_sr

Hello,

During the pandemic (early 22) I bought a set of custom wheels with White Industries T11 hubs. Now with about 7K mile on the wheels I find that the front hub bearings are shot. My previous wheels had Phil Wood hubs, also with sealed cartridge bearings, that lasted 10s of thousands of miles with zero maintenance. They were still in great shape when I sold the wheels due to lack of freehub support.

So now I am wondering if White (aka Enduro) got hold of some dodgy bearings during the pandemic of if this is now typical for cartridge bearing life. I am also wondering if the low friction "LLB or LLU" seals contributed to the greatly reduced lifespan of the bearings.

So now I have been searching for quality replacement bearings (NTN, SKF, etc) and find that there appear to be more fake/counterfeit/"B" grade bearings in the supply chain than genuine product. I have contacted one industrial supplier (AIT, aka Bearings Inc.) and they want $85 for a single NTN 6901LLB bearing and $89 for a single 6902 bearing. I don't understand this high cost unless they don't deal with these small size bearings much so don't get any quantity pricing.

So do any of you have any suggestions on where to get decent quality bearings that will live up to the "maintenance free" ideal of sealed bearing hubs?

Thanks,
Steve

bboy314

If they have the particular bearings in need, I like to order through QBP (wholesale distributor) at the shop because I don’t worry about them being counterfeit. Most bike shops have an account with them. I’ve also gone through brick and mortar bearing supply shops.

You can also buy direct from Enduro.

rccardr 

I've bought from Boca Bearings for years- good folks. They have 6901's intended for bicycle use for as low as $13 per.
Suggest you give them a call to make sure you're getting what you need.
There are more expensive bearings out there in that size but they are intended for harsher environments or are full ceramic and likely overkill for that application.
Agree that you should expect more mileage from a hub bearing. The ones in my WI hubs are still going strong after at least 10K miles.

Andrew R Stewart 

IME when a cartridge bearing wears out "prematurely" the reason(s) are generally more about the conditions than any bearing grade causes. Radial contact bearings want pretty small tolerances of added preloads from the press fit and parallel and coaxial to each other drop out faces/slots. Additionally most "contact seals", as found on many cartridge bearings, are not designed to keep out water.

What are the symptoms of the "worn out" bearings? Andy

MudPie

As a reference, McMaster Carr sells 6902 Sealed for $12 and 6902 Sealed/Stainless Steel/Permanently lubricated for $63. Brand is unknown.
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/be...s=bearing+6902

Barry2 

I’m in California and I melt in the rain. During adverse weather I rush inside to my Kickr.
I have no issues with low friction seals, I even order my BB’s that way.

Depending where you are and what weather you ride in YMMV. 🙂
I would not choose low friction seals for wet or dusty locations.

Barry

BTW, I get my NTN bearings here and can choose my seals.
Maybe not the cheapest, but I trust they are not fake.

veganbikes

Have you reached out to White Industries? I would let them know first. I haven't had to deal with warranty with them yet but they are fantastic to deal with in general and I think bearings that have worn out so quickly would be something they might want to know about and might be able to help with. I would check with them first and see what they say and if they are like nope no warranty than go to your local shop and they can order bearings or go to Phil Wood or Kogel (and upgrade to ceramic) and they sell bearings that way you know you are getting real deal stuff.

maddog34

over the years, i've bought hundreds of bearings, chains(not bicycle), pillow blocks, and couplers from these guys...

https://mcguirebearing.com/customer-service/

get a quote on the 6902-2rs bearings from them... tell them any specific needs you have... including press fit tolerance, etc.
they have several brands to choose from... Koyo (Honda!) are superior, IMO.. and F.A.G.(German brand) and Timken too...

Fast Eddy sells bearings that may not be standard fit... it's a BMX-leaning biz but they've had some odd sizes i've needed, and they ship fast too...

Duragrouch

A local industrial supply that carries bearings. In Detroit it was Detroit Ball Bearing. I could go there and get genuine made in USA Timken roller bearings or German brand ball bearings for half the cost of cheap chinese parts at the local auto parts store. In my current town is an industrial screw supply, my guess is they might also carry bearings. Given the choice, I'd trust an in-person business more than mail order, a local business depends on their reputation.

Garthr

No way those bearings should fail so quickly. Do contact WI, warranteed or not. Heck, I have one Phil Wood rear hub that's 25 years old with the original bearings. Specialized hubs from the 80's/90's with original cartridges. At the very worst, if WI tells you go fish, just get some PW bearings, they're like $12-15 generally if you shop around. I think I got some Performance Bike to have on hand.No need to get silly ceramic or other high $$ bearings.

But hey, what is meant by the bearing being "shot" ? Maybe they have little or no grease in them, who knows(it happens), as that can give the feel as if they're no good. Pop the seals off(carefully as to not damage the edge so they can be put back on) and slather in some grease, I like Lucas White Lithium myself for bearings. I did that with some dry cartrdiges I thought were gone, they were just dry. That was over a year ago, stiil rolling perfectly.

Barry2 

Remember, bearings are a consumable and relatively cheap.
If there is a chance of the bearing locking up, resulting in hard metal bearing inner race, rubbing on expensive soft metal axle, well you know the outcome of that.

choose wisely.

Barry

Kontact

Given that the T11 hub has a bearing play adjustment, I have to wonder if it was adjusted incorrectly at some point.

Steve_sr

Enduro are what are supposed to be in my hubs and they are crap!

Steve_sr

I'll check out Boca bearings.

Steve_sr

I called WI and they said no warranty on bearings as they are a wear item. After I told them how disappointed I was in their bearings and that I got 60-70K miles out of my Phil hubs and never replaced the bearings they grudgingly said that they would ship me a pair. It will be interesting to see what they are when they show up.

I don't need ceramic but I am curious what seals Phil used on the bearings in my hubs. I suspect that they were NOT the low friction LLB or LLU variety. The Phil hubs also had the seal directly exposed on the outside of the hub whereas the WI hubs had them somewhat hidden behind the axle endcaps which afforded significant protection.

Steve_sr

Have you ever tried this with the small bike wheel bearings? For some reason the industrial supply places want your first born for these.

Steve_sr

Nope these are truly gone. Wheel has noticeable slop in it. That being said, these will probably go farther. There was one guy on out 2022 trans am tour that went about 1500 miles on bad rear wheel bearings. The wheel had quite a bit of slop in it but he made it to the end.

Steve_sr

That is an interesting thought. The Phil axles had an inner spacer to prevent excessive side load on the bearings. I don't believe that the T11 does. I think that it relies on the setscrews in the end cap to prevent the end cap from being over compressed by the QR skewer.

bboy314

Can you describe the problem your bearings are having? I wouldn’t call enduro bearings crap - they make a wide range of products for all sorts of applications, including high end hubs like WI, which generally are regarded pretty highly. I wonder if preload adjustment has anything to do with your issue, ie being ridden out of adjustment like someone else suggested. I take it you’ve tried adjusting this already?

'02 nrs

been using RWC for enduro bearings for years & never an issue.https://www.realworldcycling.com/pro...ngs/full-comp/ "Back in 2003 this site was born out of the passion of an individual rider for finding the best components available and being able to install them himself. This grew into a desire to share these products and technical knowledge with others.

As a small biker-owned startup, we are pleased to have already had a significant impact on the bicycling industry. Aftermarket fork seals for mountain bikes were almost unheard of before we became the online source for Enduro Fork Seals. Our successful collaboration with Enduro set off a wave of competition from some of the largest manufacturers in the world. We continue to this day to sell and support Enduro Fork Seals and bearings.

We are perhaps best known for our RWC Rear Shock Needle Bearing Kits, which have forced the industry to rethink their high-drag bushing systems that were not only hampering the performance of rear shocks, but were in many cases damaging linkages and rocker arms. The increasing prevalence of bearing-mounted rear shocks is a testament to the effect we’ve had on an industry that previously insisted that DU bushings were “good enough.”

Real World Cycling is the proud North American distributors of ARI/Ariete fork seals and bicycle accessories. Ariete is obsessed with quality and have brought over 75 years of motorsports experience into the bicycling world.

We are tool fanatics. Improvisation has its place, but we are believers in "the right tool for the job." If we can't find the right tool, we'll make it. It means something to us that we personally know the machinists, anodizers, and laser markers who make our tools and that we are helping them to provide for their families. Yes, with rising costs the temptation to outsource our products is there, but we remain committed to keeping our manufacturing in southern Arizona.

While providing top quality products is important to us, it is not enough without the necessary support to go with it. We pride ourselves on solving problems and making each transaction a positive experience. Being human, we sometimes fall short, but our promise is to always go above and beyond to make things right."

Steve_sr

I would hope that this would be pretty obvious, especially in the front wheel.

Steve_sr

They are noisy, spin too freely (like there lost their seal and grease) and they have excessive clearance i.e the wheel has noticeable play in it.

So far I'm not convinced.

These were as received from the manufacturer (WI) and ridden without any adjustment. I shouldn't have to adjust a brand new hub. The time for any adjustment, which should have been done by WI, has expired.

Duragrouch

I have not, so you may have a point. My experience has been totally automotive, and 30 years ago at that, and for that, I was just so impressed by them only carrying quality brands and all at low prices. I think it may depend on whether the bike bearings are a fairly standard industrial size, or special size. I have a local industrial screw supply that also has other stuff (have not looked for bearings), and they are far better price and selection for screws versus hardware store, except for buying an assortment pack on amazon (various lengths of 5mm(?) stainless rack bolts).

In general, all bearings do better when there is a separate seal for dust and water that is a gap distance from the seal holding the grease in.

Second, when subjected to a radial load from the same direction, the race that doesn't move with respect to that, wears more. On cone and cup, bike axle cones wear more and will spall in one spot, so periodic rotation helps. In bottom bracket spindles, the spindle rotates but the highest load is applied at the same rotation position with respect to the crank arms, so periodic rotation of the spindle with respect to the crank arms helps. A spacer for cartridge BBs that is 1/2 thread pitch might also prolong the cartridge life, without unduly affecting chainline. For external BB bearings, similar spacers might prolong their life. Same is true for pedal bearing spindles, which is why I'd like to find washers that are 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 pedal thread pitch, to rotate the spindles with respect to the crank arms.

I have a luggage roller that is great quality except for the wheel bearings, cheap and no shields, grit destroyed them, wobbling enough to chunk the urethane wheels. I replaced with inline skate wheels with ABEC5 or 7 sealed bearings, way overkill but that's what was on some skates that were being tossed. Rolls better than new.

Garthr

Phil bearings are rated for submersible use. I can't recall what letter markings are on mine, (LU maybe ?), nor does it really matter because they only offer the one well sealed type for hubs. My PW FW hubs use 6902 bearings also, and they're exposed, but I've never had an issue in 25 years.

Did you see the procedure for setting the preload on those hubs Steve ? I've never used any that had a preload, but it seems to me that's the cause of side to side play. If the bearings are shot they will feel rough while spinning, but not move laterally as the load is fixed at that point. The bearings could disintegrate and no longer spin, but I don't see how there could be any room for lateral movement, as the cartridges are self contained units. That hub uses the radial 6902 and the one angular contact 3802 within, under the freehub body.

I won't pretend I know all about hubs and cartridge bearings in general, so if I've mistaken something I'm open for another perspective, if applicable here.

The second video is a detailed breakdown of the hub. The guy calls exposed bearings as not good, so he loses a bit of credibility as certainly he's never actually used a PW hub or bearings. Maybe Enduro seals suck, but not all brands do. While I too prefer some sort of shield for cartridges, I too thought the PW design was short sighted at first, but in practice it's a non issue.

DOS

I have been running T11 for almost 10 years, which I chose just to do something other than Shimano. I have had to replace a bearing here and there, in every case because something got through the seals and gritted things up. Bearings are cheap and replacement is easy so I didn't give it much thought. But then I had an issue with the rear hub axle. White sent me a replacement no questions asked. So I have been pleased with their customer support. All that said, and as much as I am satisfied with my hubs, when it comes down to it, there is nothing better than a cup and cone design and no good reason to chose anything but a Shimano Ultegra or Dura Ace hub. And 105s are awesome as well.