Max air pressure in an innertube?
#1
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Max air pressure in an innertube?
Anyone have a pressure gauge accurate enough to measure the maximum pressure in an inner tube before it explodes? With the tube NOT in a tire. Any guesses on what that pressure might be? IMO, any bicycle or automotive air pressure gauge won't even register at such pressures.
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Not much. Not sure why anyone would ever want to know this and what they'd do w/ the info.
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Anyone have a pressure gauge accurate enough to measure the maximum pressure in an inner tube before it explodes? With the tube NOT in a tire. Any guesses on what that pressure might be? IMO, any bicycle or automotive air pressure gauge won't even register at such pressures.
Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 10-01-21 at 10:04 PM.
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This one might work, just rig it up inline in your pump hose.
#7
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Anyone have a pressure gauge accurate enough to measure the maximum pressure in an inner tube before it explodes? With the tube NOT in a tire. Any guesses on what that pressure might be? IMO, any bicycle or automotive air pressure gauge won't even register at such pressures.
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Kudos for an original post. Not even Winter yet....
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Back of the envelope calculations for butyl rubber suggests to me that you should get to 10's of psi with a 1" tube. It will be lower than "theory" because there will be a relatively thinner portion that will bulge and will be the failure point.
I suspect you could see it with a normal pump gauge on a small diameter tube.
I'll put my marker at 10 psig.
Yes on doing it safely. Maybe have it on the other side of a door so you are protected. Make sure the dog's with you...
I suspect you could see it with a normal pump gauge on a small diameter tube.
I'll put my marker at 10 psig.
Yes on doing it safely. Maybe have it on the other side of a door so you are protected. Make sure the dog's with you...
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When you put the tube inside a tire then it becomes part of a system or structure that lend their particular qualities to the whole group.
I'd doubt a tube will hold much pressure at all by itself. But I'd be happy to be surprised if anyone wants to make balloons of their tubes..
I'd doubt a tube will hold much pressure at all by itself. But I'd be happy to be surprised if anyone wants to make balloons of their tubes..
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This thread discusses the pressure needed to burst a balloon. It takes a pressure of about 75mm of Hg to burst the balloons. That’s 1.5 psi. Of course a balloon is thinner but I doubt that you’ll have much more pressure in a tire tube before it bursts. It just expands more. I’d estimate 5 psi or less.
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I get a pretty big number back-envelope but it does not account for the hernia so I’m pretty sure it’s not right. At my job we use water for pressure tests most of the time unless it’s too heavy. The energy stored is much lower because it’s not compressible. Try it! Have fun! It’s very unlikely to kill you.
I predict failure at the stress concentration at the valve or any patches
I predict failure at the stress concentration at the valve or any patches
Last edited by Darth Lefty; 10-02-21 at 10:48 AM.
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The pressure and strain in a balloon made of a material that can stretch 500% or more before yield seems like it would be a good homework problem for a college structures class. Maybe discipline-specific. I can't recall such a one but we were concentrating on fuel tanks and cabins and spars and combustion chambers, all rigid material
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Although come to think about it more, maybe it's higher than I expected. I did several years ago get a sidewall cut while out riding. The wheel immediately made a loud bang and was instantly flat.
Changed out the tube with new and then inflated the tube with CO2. A part of the tube came out of the 1/4" sidewall cut in a bubble the size of a dime and held. I figure the it must have been about 75 psi or better in the tube. It didn't blow so I just let some pressure out and it went back in the tire. I stuck a piece of something in there to act like a boot and rode it home and then put a new tire on.
But even if a tube not in a tire will take a lot of PSI, the tube will probably be stretched to the size of those old truck tire inner tubes I use to float down the creek on..
Changed out the tube with new and then inflated the tube with CO2. A part of the tube came out of the 1/4" sidewall cut in a bubble the size of a dime and held. I figure the it must have been about 75 psi or better in the tube. It didn't blow so I just let some pressure out and it went back in the tire. I stuck a piece of something in there to act like a boot and rode it home and then put a new tire on.
But even if a tube not in a tire will take a lot of PSI, the tube will probably be stretched to the size of those old truck tire inner tubes I use to float down the creek on..
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I used to let my young daughter pump up old tubes for fun - they'd get almost as big as the whole garage before they finally let loose... not a bang, just a poof. Lot of volume, not much pressure.
Last edited by DiabloScott; 10-02-21 at 08:49 PM.
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Sometimes when I was fixing a puncture and couldn't locate the hole, I inflated the tube a bit more past its normal size and it developed a bulge in one spot before it would overall get much bigger and it was clear it would burst on that bubble, so I didn't continue. Maybe these days, the tubes are made with some more exacting process so their wall thickness doesn't vary too much and they can be inflated much more but I didn't have intractable flat for ages, so.
Now, it you asked how much pressure before tube inside tire would burst... I guess here I would put on my protective glasses and even then I wouldn't like that. I know that with automotive tires, people got killed mishandling tire job.
Now, it you asked how much pressure before tube inside tire would burst... I guess here I would put on my protective glasses and even then I wouldn't like that. I know that with automotive tires, people got killed mishandling tire job.
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Some have already alluded to measuring low pressures with water. That is my suggestion.
You can make a pretty simple low pressure tester with a few pipes or hose. The measuring side, at least, needs to be clear so you can see the water level. Set up the tube/pipe structure as a U. On one side route the pressure line to also get pressure in to the U. The other side mark increments in inches, maybe even 1/4 or 1/8" depending on how precise you want to get. Fill the U with water up to your set point (0 line). Apply pressure on the pressure end. As you apply pressure the water level in the measuring side will rise. Just make sure that the surface area that the pressure is applied to is the same surface area as the measuring side. That would be the inside diameter of the pipe/hose/tube is the same. Where the bottom of the U is doesn't matter, so long as the pipe/tube/hose above the lowest point the water will be pushed to on the pressure side, and the tube above the 0 point on the measuring side, are the same. Therefore, you can do this with very small tube - even 1/4" tube to keep it cheap. Keep the U set up perfectly vertical.
14" WC = 1/2 PSI, roughly. WC = water column.
27-3/4" WC = 1 PSI
138-1/2" WC = 5 PSI
Inches of water column is a common unit of measure for low pressure natural gas (like in your house). You can get manometers that measure these low pressures, if ya want to get fancy with it. You have to check the measurement ranges carefully as most have specific pressure ranges that they work within. Too low of a max pressure and you'll break it, too high of a max pressure and you won't get the resolution on lower pressures. So you should have a starting idea of where your pressure is going to be so you can try and get that pressure in the resolution range of the meter.
On edit - if you scale the input pressure line with surface area you can compute the difference of - say it is exactly 1/2 the surface area of the measuring side - then you can cut the length in half of the measuring side that you would need. The increments would be 1/2" = 1" though. You could use any scaling you wanted, but if you get off of a standard fraction the gradation of the measuring side would be a lot harder to accurately mark.
You can make a pretty simple low pressure tester with a few pipes or hose. The measuring side, at least, needs to be clear so you can see the water level. Set up the tube/pipe structure as a U. On one side route the pressure line to also get pressure in to the U. The other side mark increments in inches, maybe even 1/4 or 1/8" depending on how precise you want to get. Fill the U with water up to your set point (0 line). Apply pressure on the pressure end. As you apply pressure the water level in the measuring side will rise. Just make sure that the surface area that the pressure is applied to is the same surface area as the measuring side. That would be the inside diameter of the pipe/hose/tube is the same. Where the bottom of the U is doesn't matter, so long as the pipe/tube/hose above the lowest point the water will be pushed to on the pressure side, and the tube above the 0 point on the measuring side, are the same. Therefore, you can do this with very small tube - even 1/4" tube to keep it cheap. Keep the U set up perfectly vertical.
14" WC = 1/2 PSI, roughly. WC = water column.
27-3/4" WC = 1 PSI
138-1/2" WC = 5 PSI
Inches of water column is a common unit of measure for low pressure natural gas (like in your house). You can get manometers that measure these low pressures, if ya want to get fancy with it. You have to check the measurement ranges carefully as most have specific pressure ranges that they work within. Too low of a max pressure and you'll break it, too high of a max pressure and you won't get the resolution on lower pressures. So you should have a starting idea of where your pressure is going to be so you can try and get that pressure in the resolution range of the meter.
On edit - if you scale the input pressure line with surface area you can compute the difference of - say it is exactly 1/2 the surface area of the measuring side - then you can cut the length in half of the measuring side that you would need. The increments would be 1/2" = 1" though. You could use any scaling you wanted, but if you get off of a standard fraction the gradation of the measuring side would be a lot harder to accurately mark.
Last edited by KC8QVO; 10-02-21 at 09:28 PM.
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If you have that inside a tire like with a too undersize tube it will burst on a puncture rather than just leaking and it’ll be hard or impossible to patch.
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In search of the elusive michelin flat microscopic pinhole out on the road comes to mind. Or heck, in the bathroom when I'm trying to find it with water in the sink and have spun the tube through the water twice at what feels like an already-overinflated tube. (But for the latter, I at least have the knowledge that if I blow a tube by more pumping, the tube was still no good to me anyway without finding the leak.)
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The gauge on my pump appears to read down to 10psi, and the needle is moving in response to changes in air pressure a few PSI below that, but I can't begin to guess how accurate it is. I use it for my fat bike tires which I inflate up to around (what I think is likely) the 8 psi mark then, going by feel, let some air out over the first ride after inflation.
Blowing an unconstrained tube up to the point where it ruptures barely makes the needle of my pump move off of zero. My guess is less than 5psi.
Blowing an unconstrained tube up to the point where it ruptures barely makes the needle of my pump move off of zero. My guess is less than 5psi.
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I believe it would take less pump psi to burst the tube when in Denver (ambient psi is 12.15) as compared to sea level (14.7 psi), and even less at the summit of Mt Everest (4.5 psi), and might take around 9,000 psi at full ocean depth, yes? Someone has to test this theory, any takers?
Last edited by Riveting; 10-12-21 at 10:40 AM.
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But only if your floor pump is rated to 9,000+ psi. I've worked in a facility where we pressure tested equipment meant for full ocean depth up to 10,000psi, and have seen 10" diameter, 3/8" thick, titanium tubes collapse and shatter at a lot less.