Drafting, CADing, building
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,579
Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1608 Post(s)
Liked 2,216 Times
in
1,103 Posts
Has anyone used Alibre Design?
Over a decade ago I purchased a full version for about $1200. Full 3d solid modeling, assembly modeling, etc. As a contractor, I model complete tilting vacuum trucks, patented carpet cleaning truck with intricate heat exchangers and designed my own super charger kit for Jeep XJ to the point of building a prototype.
Over a decade ago I purchased a full version for about $1200. Full 3d solid modeling, assembly modeling, etc. As a contractor, I model complete tilting vacuum trucks, patented carpet cleaning truck with intricate heat exchangers and designed my own super charger kit for Jeep XJ to the point of building a prototype.
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
Last edited by SJX426; 06-27-21 at 08:57 AM.
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times
in
88 Posts
No, I have used BikeCAD as well as RattleCAD. I'm pretty fluent in RattleCAD and think for hobby builders it's better. It's simpler and more intuitive and fewer ways to chase your tail. It outputs to PDF showing multiple views including chainstay detail, miter templates, fixture set up dimensions for various fixtures.. These can then be taken to the shop for reference. I printed the chainstay detail view in full size and taped the pages together and then my chainstay fixture sat on top and i could match it all up with 123 blocks to make sure crank/tire clearances were as designed. It's also really well supported. Manfred is super responsive.
I am new to BikeCAD and am not fluent. I think once you get your templates set up, i can imagine it being pretty fast to make a new design including custom paint, decals etc. I think for someone doing more production work, it could be really useful. For me, each bike is significantly different so I have to revisit nearly every detail which is inefficient, error prone and time consuming for a one off. If I was designing for a standard model that I would make 100 times in different sizes over the coming year I think it would make sense to invest the time to model it all out in BikeCAD then each new bike would be very quick to get measurements for. It doesn't output the multiple views that RattleCAD does so I have to cycle through the perspectives and print and then open new templates and print again and I have about 6 different views I like to have for different purposes so, that's cumbersome. I suppose if I had a computer in my shop it would be better. BikeCAD has a thousand 'how to' videos which can be helpful. It's powerful and amazing with great support but a bit overkill for me. Of course, knowing that I don't know that much about it yet, there could be things i have missed that would make BikeCAD a ton easier...I just don't know it yet.
.
Since it's just math, and it's probably not patented/copyrighted, I doubt they would have a case against you for sharing. I also get the point of not wanting to spend money to defend a spreadsheet with math in it. I believe I've seen the output from it and BikeCAD has a similar CSV output that can be configurable with the measurements the builder wants and then opened in Excel. RattleCAD's xml file could probably be parsed to provide something similar.
I am new to BikeCAD and am not fluent. I think once you get your templates set up, i can imagine it being pretty fast to make a new design including custom paint, decals etc. I think for someone doing more production work, it could be really useful. For me, each bike is significantly different so I have to revisit nearly every detail which is inefficient, error prone and time consuming for a one off. If I was designing for a standard model that I would make 100 times in different sizes over the coming year I think it would make sense to invest the time to model it all out in BikeCAD then each new bike would be very quick to get measurements for. It doesn't output the multiple views that RattleCAD does so I have to cycle through the perspectives and print and then open new templates and print again and I have about 6 different views I like to have for different purposes so, that's cumbersome. I suppose if I had a computer in my shop it would be better. BikeCAD has a thousand 'how to' videos which can be helpful. It's powerful and amazing with great support but a bit overkill for me. Of course, knowing that I don't know that much about it yet, there could be things i have missed that would make BikeCAD a ton easier...I just don't know it yet.
.
Since it's just math, and it's probably not patented/copyrighted, I doubt they would have a case against you for sharing. I also get the point of not wanting to spend money to defend a spreadsheet with math in it. I believe I've seen the output from it and BikeCAD has a similar CSV output that can be configurable with the measurements the builder wants and then opened in Excel. RattleCAD's xml file could probably be parsed to provide something similar.
__________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54319503@N05/
https://www.draper-cycles.com
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54319503@N05/
https://www.draper-cycles.com
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,905
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4806 Post(s)
Liked 3,928 Times
in
2,553 Posts
Slightly off topic - I cad draw all my frames onto one AutoCAD drawing. 2-D, bottom bracket as origin. Each serious bike gets 3 layers; centerlines of tubes and hub centers, outlines of tubes and parts/wheels. This has been very, very useful. I've had a frame built from it that is the most fun ride I've ever had. I do quick measurements of potential purchases and lay them over this drawing to see if I want it and what stem I need. I sometimes dream up new ideas and save them as new layers.
Around the same time I started this drawing I read an article the author of which opined that trail vs quickness of steering wasn't a constant over varying head angles but instead could be approximated with a line. He gave the slope. (I think in terms of rake vs head angle, not trail. So I made up an AutoCAD drawing of rake vs head angle. Plotted the bikes I've owned. The bikes I've liked fell on a parallel line (I like quicker steering than the author.)
The frame of my logo photo was designed on my frame drawing and sent to TiCycles to be engineered and built. (I didn't spec tubes. Dave Levy knows that stuff far better than I.) The dropouts came right off my drawing. An 11 degree angle to horizontal, roughly 2" slot and opens down at the front so the slot is "L" shaped. Cut from 1/4" plate. The angle was chosen to be as close to horizontal as possible while still keeping the brake pads on a Velocity Aero semi-deep rim. I can run any cog between 12 and 24 teeth without messing with either chain length of brake pads (or derailling the chainring to get the wheel out/in). A joy for quick fix gear wheel changes/flips. I do on the road wheel flips all the time. 2 minutes and completely clean hands. I can remove the wheel and change a cog in 5.
So - 2-D cad drawings for frames? As a lifelong enthusiast (maybe a little more serious - over the crazy post TBI years cycling was my link to sanity and away from drugs, institutions or death) its been both a lot of fun and a gift. Being able to send a builder the drawing saves a lot of misunderstanding.
Around the same time I started this drawing I read an article the author of which opined that trail vs quickness of steering wasn't a constant over varying head angles but instead could be approximated with a line. He gave the slope. (I think in terms of rake vs head angle, not trail. So I made up an AutoCAD drawing of rake vs head angle. Plotted the bikes I've owned. The bikes I've liked fell on a parallel line (I like quicker steering than the author.)
The frame of my logo photo was designed on my frame drawing and sent to TiCycles to be engineered and built. (I didn't spec tubes. Dave Levy knows that stuff far better than I.) The dropouts came right off my drawing. An 11 degree angle to horizontal, roughly 2" slot and opens down at the front so the slot is "L" shaped. Cut from 1/4" plate. The angle was chosen to be as close to horizontal as possible while still keeping the brake pads on a Velocity Aero semi-deep rim. I can run any cog between 12 and 24 teeth without messing with either chain length of brake pads (or derailling the chainring to get the wheel out/in). A joy for quick fix gear wheel changes/flips. I do on the road wheel flips all the time. 2 minutes and completely clean hands. I can remove the wheel and change a cog in 5.
So - 2-D cad drawings for frames? As a lifelong enthusiast (maybe a little more serious - over the crazy post TBI years cycling was my link to sanity and away from drugs, institutions or death) its been both a lot of fun and a gift. Being able to send a builder the drawing saves a lot of misunderstanding.
Last edited by 79pmooney; 06-27-21 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Accidently hit send mid-way through writing this
Likes For 79pmooney:
#29
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,698 Times
in
2,518 Posts
I am new to BikeCAD and am not fluent. I think once you get your templates set up, i can imagine it being pretty fast to make a new design including custom paint, decals etc. I think for someone doing more production work, it could be really useful. For me, each bike is significantly different so I have to revisit nearly every detail which is inefficient, error prone and time consuming for a one off.
Likes For unterhausen:
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times
in
88 Posts
Just like any cad program, BikeCad is pretty awkward to use at first. I can pop out a design pretty quickly now because I have done it enough to remember where the settings are. Similarly, I found rattlecad to be a pain. Since I didn't really need it, I never learned it that well.
__________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54319503@N05/
https://www.draper-cycles.com
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54319503@N05/
https://www.draper-cycles.com
#31
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
3 Posts
If you need positive or negative molds made let me know! I can make lower cost molds from wood and you can finish sand them/coat them with mold release.The machine I have access to is accurate to about +/- 0.01" not as great as metal molds from high end CNC machines but good enough for a custom bike.
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,878
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1858 Post(s)
Liked 664 Times
in
506 Posts
As a practical matter, I don't think it would be very good. Wheel2nut's picture is at some odd angle to the centerline of the frame. If it was square to the frame, then you would have a better chance. But you still are fighting lens distortion.
There are programs that try to make a 3d scan from pictures, I have no idea how successful they are. I would start there. But that's a real rabbit hole.
There are programs that try to make a 3d scan from pictures, I have no idea how successful they are. I would start there. But that's a real rabbit hole.
If you want the data for Wheel2nut's frame, get him/her to send it to you.