Why do you like riding vintage bikes?
#101
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,687
Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawes needs parts; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612; 1977 Raleigh Competition GS
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1126 Post(s)
Liked 253 Times
in
204 Posts
I enjoy riding the bikes of my mid 20's.
I love the Centurion Ironman bikes, and the Schwinn's I sold and repaired. I still am blessed to have a 531 bike from that era that I built, even laced the wheels.
I love the feel of steel frames. I weigh 220, so enjoy a bit if flex.
I HATE aluminum frames. Sorry to all the fans. To each his own my Mother always said.
The full carbon weight savings is me not eating a cheeseburger......
I do enjoy a steel frame with a carbon fork.
And I do enjoy higher end Sram groups.
A foot in the past, and the other in the present. 😃😃😃😃
I love the Centurion Ironman bikes, and the Schwinn's I sold and repaired. I still am blessed to have a 531 bike from that era that I built, even laced the wheels.
I love the feel of steel frames. I weigh 220, so enjoy a bit if flex.
I HATE aluminum frames. Sorry to all the fans. To each his own my Mother always said.
The full carbon weight savings is me not eating a cheeseburger......
I do enjoy a steel frame with a carbon fork.
And I do enjoy higher end Sram groups.
A foot in the past, and the other in the present. 😃😃😃😃
I tried SRAM group on some of the bikes I test rode, they seemed ok, better than Shimano or Campy? No, at least I didn't think so. I didn't like the double-tap of Sram but I did like being able to shift more gears at once vs Shimano. While Sram seemed a bit smoother in the shifting performance it didn't shift as fast as Shimano. Campy on the other hand has the best of Shimano and Sram and combined it into one, Campy also looks better than the other two, but a lot of bike shops don't carry Campy stuff so trying to get parts could be a bit of a headache, and I also didn't care much for the little ear shifter button, but from people that own Campy they all agree they last longer than Shimano or Sram, but Sram is the worst of the three for durability from what I've read and heard. Shimano I can find parts anywhere in the universe, the other two not so much.
I love the feel of steel as well over Aluminum, Scandium, or Carbon Fiber, but once I test rode a couple of titanium bikes I knew that titanium had the best ride of all of them. That's what sold me on buying a TI bike, the ride, and after having lower back fusion I wanted something a bit more comfortable on long rides when I'm wasn't bike camping. I do use a steel bike for commuting though and for bike camping.
Likes For rekmeyata:
Likes For retyred:
#103
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Clemente
Posts: 664
Bikes: 87 Bianchi X4, 95 Bianchi Ti Mega Tube, 06 Alan Carbon Cross X33, Gold plated Columbus AIR Guerciotti, 74 Galmozzi Super Competizione, 52 Bianchi Paris Roubaix.
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked 539 Times
in
166 Posts
I din't know.
Likes For mackgoo:
#104
velo-dilettante
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,316
Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 3,114 Times
in
1,683 Posts
the quality of the ride, the vibes, the appreciation, the recycling, the restoration, the history, the ease of repairs/maintenance.
Likes For diphthong:
#105
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,878
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1857 Post(s)
Liked 664 Times
in
506 Posts
Can we test vintage/modern frame efficiency?
But you have absolutely no power meter evidence to back your claim. It is an extraordinary easy experiment to conduct. Yet no manufacturer has done it and the reason is obvious. Average TdF speed has gone up 4kph from 1970 to now. But also consider the average length dropped from 4000km to 3500km in the same time. While there have been incremental gains in tech, there has also been the same in training and they freshly pave most roads in the tour today and not yesterday. So no, for an average schlub on these forums, the speed difference is insignificant between bikes.
Are there any hub power meters that will fit a 120 mm (or less) rear OLD and take a vintage freewheel? Probably need pedal power sensors, plus ground speed and airspeed - a headwind or lack of one is one of the biggest random factors that can mess things up. Probably need to do some modeling on Analytic Cycling to identify some of the random external factors that should be eliminated. This actually doesn't sound too difficult. I guess my leap is what kind of small electronic device can do the data acquisition, over perhaps a 10-mile time trial.
Upsetting factors in order of estimated significance: wind, road vertical profile bike fit/geometry (differences may be huge, such as VERY vintage 69 degree seat tube angles versus +/- 74 degrees for modern), rider acclimation to the different gearings, rider climbing technique, tire selection match, and even descending technique.
Some of these seem like micro-factors, but if the frame performance differences really are zero (for example if "planing" does not exist), then very small differences are significant matters. However, it would also be interesting if it shows that the difference between the vintage sample and the modern one is smaller than some of these taken together. My best guess is that wind and road grade will be much bigger factors than all of the others. Hence my assumptions that wind speed versus road speed and road vertical profile need to be part of the data taken and possibly compensated for.
Test site can affect this stuff. Could use a large indoor flat oval track to eliminate road and wind variations, maybe mark out a big two-corner or four-corner track inside a huge convention center like Detroit's Cobo Hall or McCormick Place in Chicago. In any track with a wide raceway actual distance is a factor (just watch any track race or Olympic speed-skating), because many different lines can be taken through the curves. Outdoors, Indianapolis Speedway, the Bloomer outdoor oval track NW of Detroit or Michigan International Speedway might be good choices, if curve banking and line can be taken into account or restricted. Probably the track time is the biggest cost beyond instrumentation and software. Certainly lap timing is an alternative to bike instrumentation, except perhaps for power recording. I'm assuming that riders, techs, and data analysis will be done by bike dweebs like me, and the rider is a member who is a capable amateur racer and who already has great bikes he/she is willing to use. Basically it's mostly pro-bono, story of my life these days!
If there's any support for crazy ideas like this, maybe I'll start a new thread where interested people can discuss how or if this could really be done, and if it should be done.
Last edited by Road Fan; 11-15-20 at 06:53 AM. Reason: duplicate
#106
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,878
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1857 Post(s)
Liked 664 Times
in
506 Posts
Can we test vintage/modern frame efficiency?
But you have absolutely no power meter evidence to back your claim. It is an extraordinary easy experiment to conduct. Yet no manufacturer has done it and the reason is obvious. Average TdF speed has gone up 4kph from 1970 to now. But also consider the average length dropped from 4000km to 3500km in the same time. While there have been incremental gains in tech, there has also been the same in training and they freshly pave most roads in the tour today and not yesterday. So no, for an average schlub on these forums, the speed difference is insignificant between bikes.
Are there any hub power meters that will fit a 120 mm (or less) rear OLD and take a vintage freewheel? Probably need pedal power sensors, plus ground speed and airspeed - a headwind or lack of one is one of the biggest random factors that can mess things up. Probably need to do some modeling on Analytic Cycling to identify some of the random external factors that should be eliminated. This actually doesn't sound too difficult. I guess my leap is what kind of small electronic device can do the data acquisition, over perhaps a 10-mile time trial.
Upsetting factors in order of estimated significance: wind, road vertical profile bike fit/geometry (differences may be huge, such as VERY vintage 69 degree seat tube angles versus +/- 74 degrees for modern), rider acclimation to the different gearings, rider climbing technique, tire selection match, and even descending technique.
Some of these seem like micro-factors, but if the frame performance differences really are zero (for example if "planing" does not exist), then very small differences are significant matters. However, it would also be interesting if it shows that the difference between the vintage sample and the modern one is smaller than some of these taken together. My best guess is that wind and road grade will be much bigger factors than all of the others. Hence my assumptions that wind speed versus road speed and road vertical profile need to be part of the data taken and possibly compensated for.
Test site can affect this stuff. Could use a large indoor flat oval track to eliminate road and wind variations, maybe mark out a big two-corner or four-corner track inside a huge convention center like Detroit's Cobo Hall or McCormick Place in Chicago. In any track with a wide raceway actual distance is a factor (just watch any track race or Olympic speed-skating), because many different lines can be taken through the curves. Outdoors, Indianapolis Speedway, the Bloomer outdoor oval track NW of Detroit or Michigan International Speedway might be good choices, if curve banking and line can be taken into account or restricted. Probably the track time is the biggest cost beyond instrumentation and software. Certainly lap timing is an alternative to bike instrumentation, except perhaps for power recording. I'm assuming that riders, techs, and data analysis will be done by bike dweebs like me, and the rider is a member who is a capable amateur racer and who already has great bikes he/she is willing to use. Basically it's mostly pro-bono, story of my life these days!
If there's any support for crazy ideas like this, maybe I'll start a new thread where interested people can discuss how or if this could really be done, and if it should be done.
#107
Full Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Seattle
Posts: 387
Bikes: Davidson ’81
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked 229 Times
in
121 Posts
I don’t even own a power meter, but I think this would be interesting.
Use a rear wheel with a Powertap hub, and power meter pedals.
Modern bike.
Vintage steel bike with modern groupset.
Same vintage steel bike with 7 speed cassette and friction DT shifters.
Use a rear wheel with a Powertap hub, and power meter pedals.
Modern bike.
Vintage steel bike with modern groupset.
Same vintage steel bike with 7 speed cassette and friction DT shifters.
#108
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 12,054
Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3015 Post(s)
Liked 3,802 Times
in
1,408 Posts
Plenty of crankset powermeters. Should be somewhat easy to put them on a variety of bikes. But as Road Fan points out, either you suck out variables, which takes the fun out of it, or you need a large data set, many many rides to smooth out the variables, again, sucking the fun out of it. At least for me.
#109
Slowfoot
+1
On a good day on the W&OD I can barely pass the new moms jogging behind their double-wide strollers. My favorite thing: being passed by a flying buzz bike and getting a wave and a "nice bike" call out.
On a good day on the W&OD I can barely pass the new moms jogging behind their double-wide strollers. My favorite thing: being passed by a flying buzz bike and getting a wave and a "nice bike" call out.
#110
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Great White North
Posts: 1,226
Bikes: 2013 Cannondale Caad 8, 2010 Opus Fidelio, 1985 Peugeot UO14, 1999 Peugeot Dune, Sakai Select, L'Avantage, 1971 Gitane Apache Standard, 1999 Specialized Hard Rock
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Liked 473 Times
in
302 Posts
Can confirm what most others say here but there's just something about a vintage steel bike that looks so nice, whether it's the chrome or the variety of colours that make them stand out from new bikes. I still ride my Peugeot I bought in HS in 1986 and love riding around town showing it off. It makes me feel special, even when all these guys are whizzing by on thousand dollar bikes, they all look the same in my eyes. Something about the gun metal black colour that all the new bikes come in which is so dull if you ask me.
#111
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,878
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1857 Post(s)
Liked 664 Times
in
506 Posts
Plenty of crankset powermeters. Should be somewhat easy to put them on a variety of bikes. But as Road Fan points out, either you suck out variables, which takes the fun out of it, or you need a large data set, many many rides to smooth out the variables, again, sucking the fun out of it. At least for me.
#112
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 1,834
Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400T, 1977 Trek TX900, 1982 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1991 Waterford PDG OS Paramount, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1985 Trek 670
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 604 Post(s)
Liked 1,063 Times
in
535 Posts
I ride vintage bikes because I like the way higher end steel, with lugs looks, and rides, aluminum and carbon not so much. I like taking an old frame, and making it my canvas, then sorting it out when finished. I like the simplicity, they are easy to maintain, and with basic mechanical skills, one never has to take it to a shop. The components are reliable, and last like, forever.
I also like how I usually never see bikes similar to mine when I ride, in fact if everyone else rode them, I wouldn’t. I don’t ride vintage bikes because I care about power meters, or micro/macro efficiency, or so I can fit into a large group, the greatest number of other people I’ll ever ride with, is 2.
Oh yeah, I like that all my bikes come from the US, UK, Italy, or Japan too, created in an era when bean counters were just consultants, or outside contractors.
Tim
I also like how I usually never see bikes similar to mine when I ride, in fact if everyone else rode them, I wouldn’t. I don’t ride vintage bikes because I care about power meters, or micro/macro efficiency, or so I can fit into a large group, the greatest number of other people I’ll ever ride with, is 2.
Oh yeah, I like that all my bikes come from the US, UK, Italy, or Japan too, created in an era when bean counters were just consultants, or outside contractors.
Tim
Last edited by tkamd73; 11-15-20 at 01:47 PM.
Likes For tkamd73:
#114
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 1,142
Bikes: 1983 Univega Super Strada, 1986 Panasonic DX5000, 1984 Fuji Team 85 Univega Gran Turismo, 1984 Lotus Unique, 1987 Centurion Expert, 1987 Centurion Ironman Master,
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 677 Post(s)
Liked 460 Times
in
182 Posts
Likes For robertj298:
Likes For Wileyone:
#117
Junior Member
They Look good
Ride is great
Fun to work on
Ride is great
Fun to work on
#118
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,687
Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawes needs parts; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612; 1977 Raleigh Competition GS
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1126 Post(s)
Liked 253 Times
in
204 Posts
Because the 1963 Corvette looks 10 times better than a 2020 Corvette, plus in 20 years check and see which one is worth more, hell the 63 Corvette Split Window Rochester Fuel Injection 327 V8 360 horsepower is worth more NOW than a 20 Vette!! In like-new condition, the 63 Vette is worth about $148,000. While the 2020 Vette does perform a lot better, but back in 63 that Vette was the best performance car you could buy from America, and in 55 years that new 2075 Vette will probably outperform the 20 Vette, while the old 63 Vette will be worth over a million dollars.
Which one would I rather have? If I didn't care about performance then I would far rather have the 63 Vette, it was a lot easier to work on with just a few basic hand tools. The only change I would make to it is to replace the points and condenser with the Pertronix system, it still retains the original look, and it's easy to convert back and forth, but once the Pertronix is in place I never have to worry about setting dwell or adjusting the point gap, or replacing points and the condenser ever again. Plus using unleaded fuel eliminates the constant 12,000 spark plug changes to maybe 50,000 miles instead; with modern oil that would eliminate the need for 3,000-mile oil changes and go to 5,000-mile range instead. So modern fuel and oil along with the more modern electronic point system would make that car darn near maintenance-free!
Which one would I rather have? If I didn't care about performance then I would far rather have the 63 Vette, it was a lot easier to work on with just a few basic hand tools. The only change I would make to it is to replace the points and condenser with the Pertronix system, it still retains the original look, and it's easy to convert back and forth, but once the Pertronix is in place I never have to worry about setting dwell or adjusting the point gap, or replacing points and the condenser ever again. Plus using unleaded fuel eliminates the constant 12,000 spark plug changes to maybe 50,000 miles instead; with modern oil that would eliminate the need for 3,000-mile oil changes and go to 5,000-mile range instead. So modern fuel and oil along with the more modern electronic point system would make that car darn near maintenance-free!
#119
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 1,834
Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400T, 1977 Trek TX900, 1982 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1991 Waterford PDG OS Paramount, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1985 Trek 670
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 604 Post(s)
Liked 1,063 Times
in
535 Posts
tkamd73 I *love* the colour of that bike! Do you have a thread on it somewhere?
Tim
Last edited by tkamd73; 11-15-20 at 05:48 PM.
#120
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 458
Bikes: 91 Ritchey Ultra, 1992 Specialized Stumpjumper, 1990 Klein Rascal, 97 Trek OCLV9700, 90 Minnelli Eclipse, 95 Marin Bear Valley SE, 1991 Breezer Lightning Flash 1991 Diamondback Axis 1992 Stumpjumper Comp 1983 Stumpjumper Sport
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 646 Times
in
236 Posts
Personally the journey of breathing new life into something that’s basically waiting to be discarded is the addiction for me. When I take some of those parts that look like they’ve died and cleaned and polished, greased painted whatever, it gives me a real sense of pride. I could buy a new bike or new parts but that’s not what I’m after. When I ride down the river trail and see the Costco and Walmart crowd I feel so original and different which is great as well. I see so many full suspension 29ers riding around the paved streets of my neighbourhood and it seems somewhat absurd.
#121
(rhymes with spook)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Winslow, AR
Posts: 2,788
Bikes: '83 univega gran turismo x2, '85 schwinn super le tour,'89 miyata triple cross, '91 GT tequesta, '90 yokota grizzly peak, '94 GT backwoods, '95'ish scott tampico, '98 bonty privateer, '93 mongoose crossway 625, '98 parkpre ariel, 2k'ish giant fcr3
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 919 Post(s)
Liked 745 Times
in
546 Posts
that's quite debatable....lol
anything prior to early 2000 was obd I and II. anyone could either pull trouble codes themselves or go to an auto store and have them scan it for you. early EFI and prior were/are just so easy to work on. didn't have to pull the motor to just replace one sensor...or gasket...or etc
my dad has a '65. upgraded to some hydraulic assisted parts and disc brakes and it's a pleasure to drive. no plastic to break, no switches to go out so you can't get your window down.....i could go on, but......smart is relative
ps. granted...in cab air systems SUUUUCCKED!!
anything prior to early 2000 was obd I and II. anyone could either pull trouble codes themselves or go to an auto store and have them scan it for you. early EFI and prior were/are just so easy to work on. didn't have to pull the motor to just replace one sensor...or gasket...or etc
my dad has a '65. upgraded to some hydraulic assisted parts and disc brakes and it's a pleasure to drive. no plastic to break, no switches to go out so you can't get your window down.....i could go on, but......smart is relative
ps. granted...in cab air systems SUUUUCCKED!!
Likes For thook:
#122
I’m a little Surly
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Near the district
Posts: 2,422
Bikes: Two Cross Checks, a Karate Monkey, a Disc Trucker, and a VO Randonneur
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 1,294 Times
in
647 Posts
that's quite debatable....lol
anything prior to early 2000 was obd I and II. anyone could either pull trouble codes themselves or go to an auto store and have them scan it for you. early EFI and prior were/are just so easy to work on. didn't have to pull the motor to just replace one sensor...or gasket...or etc
my dad has a '65. upgraded to some hydraulic assisted parts and disc brakes and it's a pleasure to drive. no plastic to break, no switches to go out so you can't get your window down.....i could go on, but......smart is relative
ps. granted...in cab air systems SUUUUCCKED!!
anything prior to early 2000 was obd I and II. anyone could either pull trouble codes themselves or go to an auto store and have them scan it for you. early EFI and prior were/are just so easy to work on. didn't have to pull the motor to just replace one sensor...or gasket...or etc
my dad has a '65. upgraded to some hydraulic assisted parts and disc brakes and it's a pleasure to drive. no plastic to break, no switches to go out so you can't get your window down.....i could go on, but......smart is relative
ps. granted...in cab air systems SUUUUCCKED!!
#123
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 1,834
Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400T, 1977 Trek TX900, 1982 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1991 Waterford PDG OS Paramount, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1985 Trek 670
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 604 Post(s)
Liked 1,063 Times
in
535 Posts
Not crazy about the looks of the new corvette, every predecessor, but the C4 has nicer lines. However, on the street you do have to respect the performance of the new one, unless your driving a Tesla S or X. Drivers of those are probably even smarter.
Tim
Tim
#124
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,626
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3888 Post(s)
Liked 6,484 Times
in
3,208 Posts
The cars now are hard to work on thing has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that a corvette is a performance car and cars from that era simply don’t perform like the new ones. If you want garage art that’s fine but let’s no lie to ourselves about what it is and it’s performance capabilities or it’s quality of construction
Likes For SurferRosa:
#125
I’m a little Surly
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Near the district
Posts: 2,422
Bikes: Two Cross Checks, a Karate Monkey, a Disc Trucker, and a VO Randonneur
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 1,294 Times
in
647 Posts
==
The value argument is also troubled the folks spending big money on old muscle cars are older folks who remember them from their youth and they're not going to be around all that much longer. Cars from the 30's and 40's haven't continued to go up in value and cars from the late 50 to early 70's will taper off as the generation that wants them dwindles. I wouldn't walk across the street for a 60's or 70's Corvette/Camaro/Mustang/Cuda/AMX but I'd move heaven and earth for a nice low mileage 993/gen 3 RX7/E30 M3/gen 4 Supra Turbo/Z31 300zx