Mystery Frame ID
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,104
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked 330 Times
in
160 Posts
Mystery Frame ID
Hoping y'all BF experts might be able to help identify this crusty frame. Photos were inserted further down in this thread, or can be viewed at s89693915.onlinehome.us/img/mystery-frame (note this is a plain http address.)
- Frame size ~ 21.5 inches; repainted?
- 26.8 seatpost (came with possibly original SR Laprade; appears to be dated "79")
- 28.6 seat tube outer diameter
- Long, windowed lugs (Bocama or Prugnat?)
- English threaded bottom bracket
- Campi rear dropouts, ~ 122 mm old
- Crimped seat stays
- Vitus fork (not original?) steerer is stamped "S.V."
This is the closest BF thread I could find on a similar frame. Miyata? Raleigh? French? Falcon? Custom?
Bonus: What is all that braze doing on top of the bottom bracket? Repair of a cracked shell? It looks like the bottom of the bb shell might be dented. Hmm...
- Frame size ~ 21.5 inches; repainted?
- 26.8 seatpost (came with possibly original SR Laprade; appears to be dated "79")
- 28.6 seat tube outer diameter
- Long, windowed lugs (Bocama or Prugnat?)
- English threaded bottom bracket
- Campi rear dropouts, ~ 122 mm old
- Crimped seat stays
- Vitus fork (not original?) steerer is stamped "S.V."
This is the closest BF thread I could find on a similar frame. Miyata? Raleigh? French? Falcon? Custom?
Bonus: What is all that braze doing on top of the bottom bracket? Repair of a cracked shell? It looks like the bottom of the bb shell might be dented. Hmm...
Last edited by jethin; 05-06-23 at 08:32 AM.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,271
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
link to images generates an error message due to "security connection"
if another reader is able to view them perhaps they can glue them in to the thread...
-----
link to images generates an error message due to "security connection"
if another reader is able to view them perhaps they can glue them in to the thread...
-----
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,271
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
presently generating same error message
-----
presently generating same error message
-----
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,271
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
image hades
placed all images into a message and they show up fine in preview but when posted they disappear with only me text remaining
shall leave it to others to sort...
-----
image hades
placed all images into a message and they show up fine in preview but when posted they disappear with only me text remaining
shall leave it to others to sort...
-----
#7
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,584
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1444 Post(s)
Liked 1,064 Times
in
788 Posts
pic assist (but I could not hazard a guess on this, if you didn't say it has Imperial tube OD and Brit BB threading I'd have guessed "French"):
cracked and re-brazed BB shell I think
BCM headlugs or..?
DOH! double pic assist!
I type slow
cracked and re-brazed BB shell I think
BCM headlugs or..?
DOH! double pic assist!
I type slow
Last edited by unworthy1; 04-30-23 at 11:33 AM.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,271
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
looks like an item of Belgian produce done for a retail shop on a piece rate basis
note how thick the lugs and how simple the bridges
builder must have overheated shell giving rise to fracture which necessitated repair
remnant of black, white & blue seat tube transfer might be VITUS 172 (wylde speculation)
pillar size and likely origin are suggestive of a tubeset from Ateliers de La Rive, indents are incorrect for Reynolds
stated seat tube o.d. eliminates national origins of CH, ES & FR
slightly earlier than may appear at first glance; brake cable guides and w/b likely to be post construction additions
perhaps one of our low countries members will see a detail, or combination thereof, to advance the inquiry...
fabiofarelli JaccoW LucasHartong Italuminium non-fixie
-----
looks like an item of Belgian produce done for a retail shop on a piece rate basis
note how thick the lugs and how simple the bridges
builder must have overheated shell giving rise to fracture which necessitated repair
remnant of black, white & blue seat tube transfer might be VITUS 172 (wylde speculation)
pillar size and likely origin are suggestive of a tubeset from Ateliers de La Rive, indents are incorrect for Reynolds
stated seat tube o.d. eliminates national origins of CH, ES & FR
slightly earlier than may appear at first glance; brake cable guides and w/b likely to be post construction additions
perhaps one of our low countries members will see a detail, or combination thereof, to advance the inquiry...
fabiofarelli JaccoW LucasHartong Italuminium non-fixie
-----
Last edited by juvela; 04-30-23 at 04:41 PM. Reason: addition
#11
Disraeli Gears
Is that an aluminum fork crown casting with steel fork blades?
Maybe all-aluminum, since the fork blade decal says 979 Dural.
Maybe all-aluminum, since the fork blade decal says 979 Dural.
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,104
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked 330 Times
in
160 Posts
Interesting, thanks juvela. Koga Miyata was in my list of possibilities; dunno if that fits with any of your speculations.
Pretty sure it’s all aluminum. The upper headset parts aren’t original (Shimano) so I assume it’s a replacement.
Pretty sure it’s all aluminum. The upper headset parts aren’t original (Shimano) so I assume it’s a replacement.
#13
Shifting is fun!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 11,007
Bikes: Yes, please.
Mentioned: 280 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2198 Post(s)
Liked 4,611 Times
in
1,765 Posts
Is there a serial number anywhere on the frame? If not, I would be inclined to agree with juvela 's analysis that it is likely of Belgian origin. Campagnolo dropouts on a Miyata frame are highly unlikely.
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,104
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked 330 Times
in
160 Posts
non-fixie the serial number is on bottom bracket. It's hard to read, but looks like 9 or maybe 10 digits: 106672278.
Now you've got me pondering. Kessels or Miyata Merckx?
Now you've got me pondering. Kessels or Miyata Merckx?
Last edited by jethin; 05-01-23 at 06:47 PM.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,489
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1641 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 831 Times
in
540 Posts
Vitus alu.inum fork most likely a later replacement.
Check for frontal inpact damage on the top and down tubes.
Check for frontal inpact damage on the top and down tubes.
__________________
72 Line Seeker
83 Davidson Signature
84 Peugeot PSV
84 Peugeot PY10FC
84 Gitane Tour de France.
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7
86 ALAN Record Carbonio
86 Medici Aerodynamic (Project)
88 Pinarello Montello
89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
95 Trek 5500 OCLV (Project)
72 Line Seeker
83 Davidson Signature
84 Peugeot PSV
84 Peugeot PY10FC
84 Gitane Tour de France.
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7
86 ALAN Record Carbonio
86 Medici Aerodynamic (Project)
88 Pinarello Montello
89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
95 Trek 5500 OCLV (Project)
#16
Shifting is fun!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 11,007
Bikes: Yes, please.
Mentioned: 280 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2198 Post(s)
Liked 4,611 Times
in
1,765 Posts
non-fixie the serial number is on bottom bracket. It's hard to read, but looks like 9 or maybe 10 digits: 106672278.
Now you've got me pondering. Kessels or Miyata Merckx?
Likes For non-fixie:
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,271
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
had been thinking frame several years prior to '78 with top tube and w/b braze-ons as post fabrication additions
by that date the trend for long point lugs had subsided; of course lug detail could simply be a case of the maker using up what was to hand...
the same might be said for the 1010 ends set
caveat: in any apparent difference of opinion between non-fixie & me it's always best to go with his view as he is orders of magnitude of greater knowledge
-----
had been thinking frame several years prior to '78 with top tube and w/b braze-ons as post fabrication additions
by that date the trend for long point lugs had subsided; of course lug detail could simply be a case of the maker using up what was to hand...
the same might be said for the 1010 ends set
caveat: in any apparent difference of opinion between non-fixie & me it's always best to go with his view as he is orders of magnitude of greater knowledge
-----
#18
Shifting is fun!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 11,007
Bikes: Yes, please.
Mentioned: 280 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2198 Post(s)
Liked 4,611 Times
in
1,765 Posts
-----
had been thinking frame several years prior to '78 with top tube and w/b braze-ons as post fabrication additions
by that date the trend for long point lugs had subsided; of course lug detail could simply be a case of the maker using up what was to hand...
the same might be said for the 1010 ends set
caveat: in any apparent difference of opinion between non-fixie & me it's always best to go with his view as he is orders of magnitude of greater knowledge
-----
had been thinking frame several years prior to '78 with top tube and w/b braze-ons as post fabrication additions
by that date the trend for long point lugs had subsided; of course lug detail could simply be a case of the maker using up what was to hand...
the same might be said for the 1010 ends set
caveat: in any apparent difference of opinion between non-fixie & me it's always best to go with his view as he is orders of magnitude of greater knowledge
-----
That is an interesting point you make there about the age of the frame. Allow me to show you a frame from my collection, which is of Belgian origin (or so the former mechanic of the Rob van Oel bike shop told me). The sellers told me they thought it to be from ~1980. As bought:
#19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,104
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked 330 Times
in
160 Posts
I'm stumped (which isn't hard to do) but interesting speculations. The bike in non-fixie's post above does have similarities. Could the decal remnant on the down tube be a first gen Dura Ace sticker? Or a "Miyata Industries"?
I'm still entertaining the notion that it was a Miyata SBDU made for Merckx himself.
I'm still entertaining the notion that it was a Miyata SBDU made for Merckx himself.
Likes For jethin:
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 522
Bikes: None in ridable condition
Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 644 Times
in
192 Posts
non-fixie the serial number is on bottom bracket. It's hard to read, but looks like 9 or maybe 10 digits: 106672278.
Now you've got me pondering. Kessels or Miyata Merckx?
Now you've got me pondering. Kessels or Miyata Merckx?
#22
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,506
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7351 Post(s)
Liked 2,478 Times
in
1,439 Posts
Whatever it is, it looks pretty nice. Are you going to invest in it such as with a sandblasting and repaint? Any plans yet?
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,104
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked 330 Times
in
160 Posts
Will try to get a serial pic for Maurice tonight...
#24
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,506
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7351 Post(s)
Liked 2,478 Times
in
1,439 Posts
@jethin, my ideal size is about 56 cm, so this is probably too small for me, and I have stopped acquiring bikes.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.