exhtchrhqu

Serial number starting WP3 which makes it

W = Worksop (Carlton)
P= November
3 = 1973, 1983, 1993 etc

frame features:
lugged at all joints
slopped crown fork
no eyelets for fenders front/rear
126 mm rear spacing
downtube shift bosses
seatstays come up to the pinch bolt (i.e. no flats on the seatstays)
pin for race number
700 c wheels (looks too small for 27 in. wheels)
mounts for caliper brake

decals:
RALEIGH on down and seat tubes. I don't know how to describe the typeface (can't include photos or links =( )
531c on down tube
531 on fork blades
paint is french blue with white decals
(no separate colored head tube)

parts:

parts are too mismatched to help gauge but JIC:

Dura-ace 2x cranks
Shimano 600 front/rear derailleurs
Specialized stem (obviously a swap)
Shimano 600 brake calipers
Simplex downtube shifters, friction shift
Diacompe brake levers
Avocet seatpost
Selle Italia Turbo saddle
Stronglight headset

Nothing about the frame makes me think it was repaired / resprayed.

There's no way it's a 1973 or a 1993. I looked through all of the 82/83/84/85 catalogs. I can't find a bike that matches this spec + paint. Frankly I can't find any all-french-blue bikes in any of the era Raleigh catalogs.

juvela

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Carlton had an opaque bright blue colour they termed Lagoon Blue



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madpogue 

French blue? So it's not the bike depicted in the photo in your gallery? Is that photo there just to illustrate the typeface of the branding? That definitely looks '80s, which would be consistent with the 126mm rear spacing.

non-fixie 

This what you are describing?

exhtchrhqu

I don't have a gallery so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

The color is more like RAL 5002. Carlton Lagoon Blue looks more like "baby blue". I'll see if I can trick this into letting me link to some images.

madpogue 

When you try to attach photos, and have fewer than 10 posts, the forum site stops you, but still puts the photo(s) in your gallery. This one is in there now:


So you could try to post some more, let it stop you, and other members will be able to see and post them. We call it "photo assist".

USAZorro

The color code and the description have me thinking it's either a custom frame, or that the eyelets have been chopped off and the frame has been repainted.

exhtchrhqu

Ok i added some other photos in my gallery.

juvela

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nlerner

Looks like it's been powdercoated--and not well.

juvela

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...reminds one of Jethro Tull: " Thick As A Brick"


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USAZorro

There's nothing in the 1983 catalog with fastback stays.

I'm tempted to conclude that it's a 1973/4 Professional MK IV, except for that I didn't think that the WxY##### serial scheme started until 1974.

non-fixie 

There is. A while ago I made a list of all eighties Raleighs with the so-called "shot-in backstays" (pictured above), because of a bike I'd found that didn't fit. The 1983 Team Replica 12 is one of them:

USAZorro

Not doubting you. This is my first seeing this chart.

exhtchrhqu

Do you have an 83 catalog showing the Team Replica? My copy doesn't include any.

All of they 73's in my catalog have either clamp-type or bottom-of-the-tube top tube cable routing,

Pcampeau

More photos needed. Please include the entire frame in a photo of the drive side. It’s tough to piece anything together with only snippets of frame here and there. A pic of the serial number too would be helpful as the frame looks to have been refinished. Is there any possibility we’re dealing with a poorly stamped serial number or a paint filled number and the 3 may be faded 8 or 9? It could be from 1983 but it’s tough to reconcile without better pics. The bike is absolutely not from 1973 or 93.

non-fixie 

Fellow member cudak888 has made a useful index of many Raleigh catalogs that can be found online: Raleigh Catalog Database

The 1983 Racers catalog is on bulgie 's site: 1983 Raleigh Racers

This is the Team Replica 12 from said catalog:

non-fixie 

I had another look at your pictures and description, and it being a November '83 build, it is probably an '84 MY bike.

It does raise a few questions, however. The lugs look like Prugnat S4 to me, and the dropouts appear to be Gipiemme, which matches the frame used for the Road Ace, Competition and the Gran Course. But I am not sure about the fork crown. It looks a bit different from the Davis item I would expect, but I can't find a decent picture of the Vitus for comparison. Also, the way the dropouts are attached to the stays is different, at least from the November '83 frame I have. (The Raleigh that doesn't exist. Or does it?)



This is the fork crown of my January '84 Competition 12:



I suspect that in late '83 Raleigh was still looking for the definitive build specs, and early poduction frames didn't all match the '84 catalog.

It would be interesting to know if there's any original paint left under that new coat, which might provide a further clue as to what it is.

For now, here's another thread that might be of interest: The Raleigh that wanted to be a GIOS

USAZorro

The steerer may be the place most likely to retain traces of original paint (presuming the fork is not a replacement).

exhtchrhqu

Let me get a few more pictures. It's hard to capture with a camera but it's definitely WP3, not 5,8,9, etc. It is difficult to see esp. with the thicker powder coat.

I think you are on the right track with the late date 83 making it more likely a 84. If I look in the 1984 Racers catalog the only bikes that matches:

* shotback seat stay
* cable routing on the top of the top tube (not side or bottom) (rules out the 84 Team Replica)
* side mount down tube shifters (not aero ones) (rules out the 84 Road Ace 12)

would be a 1984 Competition 12 or Gran Course (the later i guess was only available as a frame/fork)

My frame has a pump peg on the head tube. Neither the Competition nor the Gran Course has this feature. Maybe that was brazed on later as part of the respray?

Given that none of the parts on this bike match anything available from Raleigh at the time, I'm thinking this was more likely a frame/fork only Gran Course and not a Competition that was stripped of all parts.

Charles Wahl

At this time, Raleigh had somehow shifted the "Competition" model to Asian manufacture, and the bikes that seemed to take its place in their English-made lineup changed names about every year: Road Ace, Gran Course, and so on. If the bike has been repainted, it doesn't much matter which one it was -- they were very similar as far as I can tell, and a fun ride. At least the Gran Course I had was, with fairly steep HT and ST angles, short chainstays. Light frame for its size, too. I agree with non-fixie that the fork crown doesn't look like the Davis model that I've seen most often on these bikes, though.

Piff 

If you take a look at this video you'll see that your frame has some but not all of the same design elements of an SBDU frame of this time period. I'd definitely lean toward the pump peg as a later addition.


As for the fork, this same guy has another video about that style of fork crown. Starts a few minutes in:



Interesting to see how similar Worksop design was to SBDU.

cudak888 

The OP's frame is a dead ringer for both the 1984 UK-spec Road Ace 12 and Competition 12, as you hinted at earlier. Both have Prugnat S4 lugs, shot-back stays, and Gipiemme dropouts - but most importantly, both were specified with sloping crowns.





That '84 frameset I picked up with GIOS decals also had the same sloping crown. I narrowed it down to a Competition 12 because I found the dark green paint under the GIOS paint job when I stripped it.

For anyone trying the Raleigh USA route, don't. This isn't a US model frameset, even though someone slapped Huffeigh-era decals on it. It's clearly a UK-market '84 frame.

-Kurt

cudak888 

P.S.: This isn't the first time that production Raleighs wind up aping the SBDU styling of the era. Some of the late-1980s and early 1990's lugged road frames from Nottingham had the oversized stay caps too.

This is a 1991 Special Products frameset (with the wrong decals), but there were some cataloged UK production models that used this exact stay configuration - despite having no direct connection with the SBDU.




-Kurt

Mr. 66

I had a TI Raleigh replica, it was a Competition. I don't remember the year it was a 81 or 83.

It was originally equipped with Shimano Arrow derailleurs and Campy Gran Sport shifters. Raleigh branded stem, made in England Road Champion bars, Weinman 605, this would have had Normandy Lux red foil hubs, with SR custom cranks.