unworthy1

I bought a frameset that has almost no identifying features: it was supposedly a prop for a trade show but seems perfectly ride-able.
Anyhow could have been built in the East Coast of USA, might be Tig-welded or (less likely} fillet-brazed...but this treatment of the crown race collar is nothing I have seen before.
Might have needed "peening" for a tight press-fit, but I have only seen frame builders (or shop-dogs) use a sharp punch for that, this looks to be a small chisel.
Any guesses?

wschruba

I use an automatic center punch, and hit four quadrants, then in between, then above/below those if it's still loose. The automatic part makes it less likely to need re-facing after the fact.

That looks...interesting, and none-too-accurate, at that.

dddd

Four quadrants or five should be plenty enough to center the race, but with Loctite applied to take the actual load, lest the peening get knocked down and allow the crown race to start moving.

A heavy application of peening, as shown, is more appropriate if no Loctite is used.

Even Schwinn's knurling failed me after just a thousand miles before I added Loctite to the joining.

Schweinhund

I dunno, it looks like an ancient script. A curse or blessing hidden under the crown race. (oh lordy please don't break)

stoneageyosh

It appears that whoever built the fork did not have tooling to finish the crown race seat. How did it become undersized to start with? The diameter of fork crown race seats are usually slightly oversize diameter and cut to size simultaneously when surfacing the seat.

cudak888 

What diameter is it at present? 26.4 slotted out to 27.0? Have any photos of the rest?

I am curious if the craftsmanship matches the crown - whether the corner cutting shown here is evident in other areas of the frame, or whether this might be someone else's post-build attempt to shove a JIS headset onto it.

-Kurt

Charles Wahl

I really like it. It's properly artisanal. Would you mind taking another photo from a bit further away, with the painter's tape removed?

79pmooney

It sounds to me like this bike was built specifically for the (or several) trade show(s). I used to build boats. Boats for shows had to look really good. The boats that we were knew were going to the World Championships or get sailed across oceans got radically more care in the unseen places. Show bikes? Finish matters. Lug work matters. Headset fit doesn't. I also bet that show bikes are like show boats - almost always built in a real hurry. Delivering it late simply doesn't work.

This isn't always the case. Some new models/products at shows are real gems.

Schweinhund

It does have a Stonehenge type of feel to it.

gugie 

Damn, and here I spent real money on one of these:

unworthy1

well. I know this is both annoying and coy, but want to keep the identity concealed for a little while so no bigger revealing pix just yet.

It seems to be very well made without any lugs, has Campagnolo shorty DOs (portacantena no less) and fork ends, BSC BB threading and takes 27.2 seatpost, the cable routing under BB shell with a standard plastic guide, Allen bolt brakes, 126 OLN rear spacing, fork crown is a familiar Italian make with "window" cutouts in the external sockets.

But here's the real oddity: aside from 2 vent holes in the fork blades there are NO holes in ANY of the tubes or stays (even between the BB shell and 3 mains, the TT and seat tube, the head tube and TT or DT...nada)

What do you framebuilders think about that? Big red flag or just odd?

Edit: also just found the digital calipers and with the Stonehenge Nordic Runes it's barely measuring 26.4, taking multiple readings I get between 26.1 and 26.4

wschruba

My/most of the Serottas that I've seen have the vents brazed closed with silver. The process is interesting, and usually not done on any but an expensive frame.

If done poorly, moisture can be trapped in the tube.

repechage

that is a nice tool.
Stein does a good job.
took delivery of one of his headset wrenches this year. Nice tool.
I want to fabricate a tool to possibly roll out top tube dents similar to this knurling tool in concept.

bulgie 

I was given two nice bikes recently, one a perfectly good Burley tandem, complete bike with nice parts (Ultegra level), prefect except for the captain's seat tube is rust-perforated at the BB shell. Rusted from the inside by a puddle of water that sat there for who-knows how long. That's what lack of a drain hole will get you.

The other is a ~1970 PX-10, also with the seat tube rust perforated, from the inside out. Not a lack of a drain hole in the BB there, since that's a lugged frame, but they unwisely put a cork in the seat tube below the seatpost, and that's where the water puddled and did its dirty work.

Moral of the story is this: water will get into the seat tube(s), and needs a way out. Well, I live in Seattle, so maybe folks in Arizona, who never ever get caught in a downpour, can ignore this advice. But on any frame without a drain at the bottom of the ST, I would drill one. Remember, bikes get water inside when being transported on a car rack too, not only from riding.

Loctitie has various formulas designed to hold cylindrical shapes in a too-large bore or shaft, and they're very strong. I forget which number but the one I've used is one of the green ones. Made to take forces well beyond what bike headsets see.

Mark B

unworthy1

Yep^ I have a bottle of Loctite Green and know how to use it!

unworthy1

funny thing but the seller mentioned that Ben Serotta may have been the builder of this frame...but maybe he was just name-dropping

oneclick 

I found another puddle-place on an otherwise very nice Gitane.
The chainstay sockets had been sized with a tool that pushed a ridge ahead of it, a rust stain shows where the puddle was.
Both sides were like this, fortunately the bike was from a dry climate and it was hardly more than a stain:




After a few minutes with a rotary-tool:




Always worth pulling the bb of any bike you just bought...

cudak888 

Typical for Gitanes - course of action #1 on just about any of them is to grind the slag off the chainstay so it can drain properly.

-Kurt

unworthy1

I'm tempted to just drill some holes in "the usual places" so I can at least squirt some rust-proof juice up in them...but I have bigger fish to fry for a time, so may just sell this frameset to somebody else as-is.
Even with a right-angle drill attachment it will be tricky to make a clean job of that...could be more trouble than it's worth, too.

The seller told me this (Very Bright day-glo yellow frame) was used by Mavic for trade-show use displaying Mavic components...could be but it has BSC/ISO BB threading so...who knows?
I know yellow was the Mavic color but this is Hyper yellow, not sure if they ever went to day-glo (even if just for promo events) but maybe somebody here knows.

If I don't sell it this weekend I'll take pix and share them here, which be be the next flog-opportunity!

unworthy1

Good point and advice, I think this frame will go back to market and let someone else deal with it...the fork on the other hand...