BanderAus

Hi all

So you probably get spammed with these types of threads asking for identification and I thought it would be easier to ask if there's a list of model/serial numbers people can search up? There's a number 4011 under the bottom bracket of this Hercules I've just purchased and hopefully that means something to someone reading.

This is my first 3 speed which I'm told is a 1953 Hercules Tourist although looking at the catalogue for that year I can't find this configuration.
If you want to see a picture I've posted it in the gallery, feel free to share the image in a comment.

Cheers

T-Mar

Often, the best dating clue on old English 3 speeds is the date code on the rear hub. Of course, that assumes it is a Sturmey-Archer and that it is original equipment. Unfortunately, bicycles this old have often been substantially rebuilt. Looking at the frame itself, I get the impression that it is older, based on the wishbone style seat stays. Additional photos may help. Photo assist...

bluesteak 

The bike in the photo has a roadster frame. The seat stays are bolted to the the back of the seat tube and the drop out exits to the rear.

not much appears to be original, possibly the mud guards, and possibly the rack on the back.

It could be as old as the 30’s.

What size wheels an tires does it have?

clubman 

I looked through that 53 catalogue and it's 19 pages long but they note on the last page that they have 31 models available and specifications are always subject to change.
The 'wishbone' stays and curved brake bridge were common on the post war 28" wheel roadsters. Serial numbers don't really help for most mass produced Brit bikes it seems.
It looks like an early bike but I'm not seeing any pics in the gallery. Still a very nice roadster. Here's another Birmingham bike, likely just post-war, with the same stays.

BanderAus

Hi T-Mar

Thank you for the response and sharing the image. The rear hub is a Sturmey Archer AB - dated 53. Whether it's original or not I have no idea.
I have added a few images again to the gallery and would appreciate if you could share.

BanderAus

Yeah there really isn't much original I'd say. I don't think the mud guards are, I had to take the front off as it was rubbing a bit.
I believe the bike was restored to be a show piece rather than a functional one.
The person I bought it from said the head badge couldn't be restored so they replaced it but I don't know whether it was replaced with an identical styled one.
They said the pedals were original and presumably they also meant the crank but could be wrong.
And I don't think the rack is as they had 3 other brand bikes with identical racks.

Wheels are 28 x 1 3/8. I wonder whether this originally had 26 x 1 3/8 though.

BanderAus

The picture linked above in the second comment is the bike. I've just uploaded a few more close up pictures in the gallery just now here:

bikeforums.net/g/album/24339807

clubman 

28"s should be original with that frame. I'm wondering how the front brake caliper is working with the front westwood rim? Typically it would have have an SA drum brake.
Another unique feature is the 5 pin crankset, not normally found on roadsters but it might push the date back. Is it marked Utility, British Made? are there any dates on the back of the arms?

T-Mar

The OP's new photos shows the pre-1950s, round headbadge with the horizontally aligned holes, while the early 1950s used the keystone shaped headbadge with two vertically aligned holes. The spacing on the latter is wider than the on the former, so there should be evidence of the holes if it's from the early 1950s. I'm not seeing anything from the outside (see attached photo). I guess they could have been filled in by the previous owner but there should still be evidence of them if the inside of the head tube is examined. I'm not not sure exactly when the badge style changed but it was sometime during the 1948 to 1950 model years.

BanderAus

I could be wrong but I believe it's a westrick rim. Either way there's just enough surface for it to work albeit not overly great. Arms state they are made by Williams in England and there's no date. The bike's decals are not original however there is one (presumably to replace the original) saying Made in England. Thank you.

BanderAus

If I get to opening up the head tube I'll make sure to check. I have the feeling if they were there they were covered up as there's other indications of some rust holes being filled in. Cheers.

clubman 

Have a closer look at the back of the crank arms...Williams were pretty consistent with having date codes, usually in the form of 2 letters. See this chart for reference. This, along with the '53 hub will get you close to the year of manufacture.

BanderAus

I'm guessing they must not be original as it says EW over the top of a sword and Z H at the bottom with the letter B inside of it. I can only presume the ZH is the date code referring to 1967.

clubman 

I'd call it a '53 Hercules even if the frame's earlier. It's a very nice roadster so enjoy it.

BanderAus

Nice looking Roadster. It's been headache after headache since I got it haha. I've spent as much time off the road as I have on.