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Old 11-06-17, 07:22 PM
  #4626  
pierrej
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
When doing a 200, I try to tuck elbows in after crossing the 100m line as it's basically hanging on from there.
This is pretty much what I've been doing, once I'm no longer accelerating I'll slowly tuck up. I've seen the Brits rolling their wrists inwards towards the end of times efforts so it got me thinking.

The team GB position seems moderately upright with the elbows tucked compared to what some of our (Aus) riders seem to do.

Skinner would be a better comparison as he is closer in size to glaetzer, larger than Kenny.



Was curious as to what people thought would be the position with the most benefit, either being slightly more upright and narrower, or quite a low and wide position in reducing frontal area?
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Old 11-06-17, 07:58 PM
  #4627  
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Originally Posted by JuiceWillis View Post
During the offseason, those focused on points and scratch races, how much of your on the bike training is doing high intensity intervals (power zone 6, and Vo2 Max)?
Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
I'm an enduro. I work on my sprint throughout the offseason - what better time to improve it? And Vo2max work (Z5) is a key part of aerobic development that I do in the offseason. I do less Z6 stuff in the winter. Some, but not much. That comes into my schedule more during spring builds.

There's a traditional approach of taking a big chunk of time off and starting from a clean slate with a lot of endurance work and foundational miles, but I'm a proponent of a very flipped approach - that the offseason is a great time to build power, even if you're letting some endurance wither.
When I'm writing my own training, I spend a lot of time following QP's "inverse" approach. My coach has a bit of a mixed approach. One block is traditional mileage, the next has more threshold, and I assume there will be a fair bit of VO2max work in the next month. That's all coupled with some MTB rides, and lots of weightlifting.

It's super important to get lots of hard efforts in during the off season. When you aren't racing, you can really bury yourself in fatigue, and actually get faster.
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Old 11-07-17, 12:36 AM
  #4628  
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I'd like to know how aero it is going that low. My guess is that once the chest/stomach are below horizontal, you start to produce more drag. You almost never see an aero position go that low, at least not now with wind tunnel testing readily available.
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Old 11-07-17, 02:37 AM
  #4629  
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Originally Posted by spartanKid View Post
Glaetzer is just a freak though. He's so tall and long. Him and Theo Bos are the only guys I've ever see be able to get their shoulders SO MUCH LOWER than their back
Bos and Buchli have reasonably similar positions as they're similarly built guys. I'm about the same size as them/glaetzer so figure if it works for them it may probably work for me.
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Old 11-07-17, 02:40 AM
  #4630  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
I'd like to know how aero it is going that low. My guess is that once the chest/stomach are below horizontal, you start to produce more drag. You almost never see an aero position go that low, at least not now with wind tunnel testing readily available.
That's what I'm curious about, but I also figure that the national team wouldn't do it if it didn't work, as both the men and women seem to have the same kind of position
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Old 11-07-17, 09:09 AM
  #4631  
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Glaetzer's position is crazy - I love it. With him, for whatever reason, it looks natural and not strained. Something about how he rides makes him particularly look like an animal, a predator, something big and feline and scary.

The thing about what works for pros - especially sprinters - is that they have go with what feels right. It's sort of a vague item that aligns with them needing a position in which they can put out maximum power. It might not be "optimized" for w/cda, but then again an "optimized" position might fail to take into account other sub-optimal conditions.

Frequently, I think it's not a great idea to look at the pros for too much inspiration. They're freaks. We're mortals. And they don't always follow or trust science.

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Old 11-07-17, 10:07 AM
  #4632  
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Glaetzer: 6ft 3in (190cm), CHIN ON DA STEM:




I find it hard to believe that he's pedaling "full circles". I'd imagine that his hips are so closed that his hip flexors are completely shut off. At that point, it's simply HULK MASH.

Last edited by carleton; 11-07-17 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 11-07-17, 10:39 AM
  #4633  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
Frequently, I think it's not a great idea to look at the pros for too much inspiration. They're freaks. We're mortals. And they don't always follow or trust science.

Yeah, I'd like to second that. John McEnroe's forehand is a great example. One of the greatest players ever had the worst forehand. He obviously won with it, but if a new player showed up to a coaching session with that exact same stroke, they'd be coached off of it immediately. What should the player do? That's up for debate. Wins tend to shut every nay-sayer up.
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Old 11-07-17, 11:52 AM
  #4634  
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Dizzy Gillespie, one of the best trumpeters ever, had epically bad embouchure. Experts are quite often freaks. For good info about things like form, and training, don't look to naturals. Look to the people who have had to meticulously slowly steadily piece by piece improve everywhere.
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Old 11-07-17, 04:47 PM
  #4635  
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I might see if I can get ahold of one of the coaches or maybe one of the sports scientists next time I'm around the HPU. Glaetzer won't be back here for a little while so it might be a little harder to get his opinion of it.

It does look most cool though
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Old 11-07-17, 05:29 PM
  #4636  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post

Ribbed seatposts? For pleasure or aero?
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Old 11-07-17, 06:24 PM
  #4637  
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Maybe the the ribs are set 1cm apart or less and the seatpost wedge in the frame actually lock into those ribs with custom seatpost made for each athlete so one of the ribs is at the proper seat height for the respective athlete. Could even have different seatpost for the kilo that is ribbed appropriately. I am just guessing a reasoning of it.
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Old 11-07-17, 06:37 PM
  #4638  
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Originally Posted by Godsight View Post
Maybe the the ribs are set 1cm apart or less and the seatpost wedge in the frame actually lock into those ribs with custom seatpost made for each athlete so one of the ribs is at the proper seat height for the respective athlete. Could even have different seatpost for the kilo that is ribbed appropriately. I am just guessing a reasoning of it.
That'd be my guess, too.

I always wondered if the BT Edge and Ultra had seatpost issues under bigger riders.

The top of that post has silver bits which is different from the normal seatpost.
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Old 11-07-17, 06:44 PM
  #4639  
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BTW, this pic illustrates how low he gets compared to others:

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Old 11-07-17, 06:50 PM
  #4640  
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Originally Posted by Godsight View Post
Maybe the the ribs are set 1cm apart or less and the seatpost wedge in the frame actually lock into those ribs with custom seatpost made for each athlete so one of the ribs is at the proper seat height for the respective athlete. Could even have different seatpost for the kilo that is ribbed appropriately. I am just guessing a reasoning of it.
I like the idea, sort of like an adjustable height drop hitch.


If it were custom, or even just S,M,L,XL sizes, you would only have to rib the bottom portion that makes contact with the wedge bolts. Maybe to smooth dirty airflow around the seat post? Sort of like a rear diffuser on a sports car.

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Old 11-07-17, 06:53 PM
  #4641  
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OK. Found a good pic of the post:



Jeez. That's an entirely new saddle from scratch!!
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Old 11-07-17, 07:03 PM
  #4642  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
BTW, this pic illustrates how low he gets compared to others
I don't know if you guys remember Mark French from Aus. He had the largest saddle to bar drop that I've ever seen barring Ondrej Sosenka or Theo Bos, and those guys are quite tall.
https://www.gettyimages.ca/event/worl...ture-id2007080
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Old 11-07-17, 07:26 PM
  #4643  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
ok. Found a good pic of the post:



jeez. That's an entirely new saddle from scratch!!

dafuq!
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Old 11-07-17, 08:50 PM
  #4644  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
dafuq!
Post isn't the standard BT part either and the ribs are there for aero reasons. One of the guys in my cycling club is a sports engineer and we were talking about the seats over coffee. Best I could describe them as they're a little like pivotal seats and posts underneath from bmx if anyone is familiar with them, and I believe the tops are printed.
In theory they shouldn't be able to tilt under load but I'll see if I can find out any more info about them.

Edit: engineer for our state squad, but the national team overlaps in areas here because the national team is based here.
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Old 11-07-17, 10:09 PM
  #4645  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
I don't know if you guys remember Mark French from Aus. He had the largest saddle to bar drop that I've ever seen barring Ondrej Sosenka or Theo Bos, and those guys are quite tall.
UCI World Cup Classics Track Cycling Photos and Images | Getty Images


Yeah, that position is pretty deep.

Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
dafuq!
I know, right? This has been around since before the Olympics and I wonder if anyone noticed.

Originally Posted by pierrej View Post
Post isn't the standard BT part either and the ribs are there for aero reasons. One of the guys in my cycling club is a sports engineer and we were talking about the seats over coffee. Best I could describe them as they're a little like pivotal seats and posts underneath from bmx if anyone is familiar with them, and I believe the tops are printed.
In theory they shouldn't be able to tilt under load but I'll see if I can find out any more info about them.

Edit: engineer for our state squad, but the national team overlaps in areas here because the national team is based here.
Wow. I've never heard of the Pivotal system.




According to Dan's Comp (a top BMX parts website):

The Pivotal seat became the BMX industry standard not long after its introduction. The pivotal design requires one-bolt mounting and angular adjustment, and is the most popular option in modern BMX seats.
I could totally see that going main stream for cycling. Or simply make it an option.
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Old 11-07-17, 10:24 PM
  #4646  
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Maybe for the track where comfort isn't a high priority, but rails probably won't be getting replaced any time soon on the road.
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Old 11-07-17, 10:30 PM
  #4647  
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Dirt jumper and some downhill rider use that system. It is useful when the saddle is tilted backward to have more space to put your hips on top of the rear wheel axle or even behind it during jumps, drops and steep sections.

I would assume they are more like the Selle Italia monolink system or like SDG I-Beam system where micro-adjustment of the saddle angle is still possible but a stronger mono rail to handle better the impact (in case of the SDG I-beam system) compared to a standard railed saddle. But looking again at the picture, it looks like the saddle can pivot on the forward bolt and rear bolt fix the angle of saddle and would have the advantage of always keeping the saddle exactly at the UCI saddle setback limit or at the proper setback specific to each rider.
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Old 11-07-17, 10:33 PM
  #4648  
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A quick look suggests our pursuit teams ran them at Rio so it looks to be more than just a sprint thing


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Old 11-07-17, 10:38 PM
  #4649  
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Originally Posted by pierrej View Post
Maybe for the track where comfort isn't a high priority, but rails probably won't be getting replaced any time soon on the road.
I personally think that track equipment should continue to diverge from being hand-me-down from Road or Triathlon Time Trial equipment.

Areas where it has already happened:
- Frames (they are no longer the same geometry)
- Handlebars
- Shoes
- Wheels
- Gloves
- Cranks
- Chainrings/Cogs
- Tires
- Hubs

Areas where that can happen:

- Saddles
- Pedals (how many hacks to attach straps are there now?)
- Skinsuits
- Helmets
- Seatposts
- Aerobars
- Tires
- Shoes
- Gloves
- Power Meters
- Cycling Head Units
- Power file analysis software
- Hubs


Track racing is evolving into a similar but different sport. There are LOTS of opportunities for innovation.
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Old 11-07-17, 10:40 PM
  #4650  
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Get this, every Olympics we see a big team make a tweak of something on that list above.

Imagine if a company or two focused time, money, and resources towards doing those things for more than just one team? Sounds crazy but 3T did it with the Scatto bars. CASCO with the WARP helmet. SRM did it with power meter cranks....and all of those are staples of the sport right now.

Last edited by carleton; 11-07-17 at 10:59 PM.
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