wesmamyke

The only reputation I recall Matrix rim having is how hard it was to mount tires to some of them. I forget what models specifically but putting Conti top touring tires on some of those things was quite the task.

Prowler 

This thread is quite encouraging as I'd read some BMC on the Matrix rims elsewhere. I grabbed a Titan set outta my friends bone pile, back back in December, to try on my winter project Crescent. Decent looking but untrue and he was not going to invest the time and effort to try a rescue. Both needed hub overhauls and a few new cones. The rear was all wobbly but, after fully de-tensioning everything and starting over has come into true quite nicely. These are the gray ano box rims, mildly aero with eyelets. I'm looking forward to the ride. This will be the first 23c tired ride I've had in ages.

BTW the rear wheel (no tire, tube nor FW) weighs a bit more than a comparable tubular rimmed wheel - but only the weight of a QR scewer. I'll not be able to notice the difference.

Steve Whitlatch 

I have come across quite a few good ISO rims. I have one that cracked by the nipple, in the garage. It came to me that way on a bike. I have no idea how or why, but I now check them very closely when I do find them on a bike I buy.

muysal

Thank you for this information. If I find out anything from Trek concerning spoke tension recommendation I'll post it here.

Kdogbikes

My tempo came with these matrix wheels....Iso rear,titianS front. Ordered 28c to try out. Rear tire went on easy. Front tire.....FREAKING BATTLE!!! At first I was thinking new tire toughness. Then read up on these rims and it was mentioned tough to get tire on. Not sure what I'd do if I got a flat out on the road. Soap on the rim and tire finally got the job done. Tires ride great btw.

Classtime 

Ok. It is not just me having trouble mounting tires on these things. I've got Titans that require tire levers. A while back, I had some Race Xtra Lites that were also a pain. Maybe it is a Trek/Wisconsin/Lawyer thing where they want to make sure the bead won't pop off? Anyway, what tire brand tends a little large that won't be such a bear? I don't want to wrestle with these things on my way to work.

notenoughdaylig 

I had a pair of Mt Titans from '93 on my mountain bike. They were super light and took the abuse. BUT...I hated flats. Several times I cut the tire off because I couldn't get it off the rim using normal methods.

One time I was in Mammoth during a race/festival. I went to at least half a dozen tire reps and said I'd buy their tire if they could get this one off. I didn't buy tires that trip.

Otherwise a great rim.

crank_addict

Early versions that are perfect true. Laced on 600 hubs. Anodized brake surface is scuffed away but no complaints. No issues mounting and using the Tufo tubular / clinchers. One of the best I've had for durability.

RobbieTunes

Looks like a Rudi saddle

crank_addict

^ Good eye, Robbie!
Fave saddle from RHM. Of course the never ending subjective of whats the best, etc. is tiring to read about. Its mostly about luck in what works for one, and this one delivers. Rudi's approach and the time he puts into a saddle is quite something. I'm most appreciative and especially on those perfect days can feel pretty good after 150 miles. Thats the best I could describe it.

The bike is an '82 era with lots of miles, chipped Dupont Imron paint but original. Note the duct tape on the chainstays

happy trails!

OldsCOOL

I have a set of Titans from the Trek 760 that are very nice. No probs so far. Love the tune you can put on those Sansin hubs. Wow.

muysal

Chat started on 03 Mar 2017, 04:39 PM (GMT+0)

(04:39:00) *** Visitor 74792041 joined the chat ***
(04:39:00) mike: I like to find out recommended spoke tension on Matrix Journey clincher rims which I believe were manufacture by Trek.
(04:39:09) *** Simone joined the chat ***
(04:39:20) Simone: Hey Mike.
(04:39:25) mike: Hi
(04:39:45) Simone: Matrix Journey rims weren't manufactured by us, sorry.
(04:39:58) Simone: What year or bike was it on?
(04:40:37) Simone: Only Bontrager rims are manufactured by us.
(04:40:48) mike: I'm using it on a vintage 84' steel frame. Bought it NOS from a local bike shop.
(04:41:08) Simone: Got it.
(04:41:47) Simone: Nothing affiliated with us.
(04:41:58) mike: BikeForum users claim it was manufactured during the 90's by Trek or a company Trek consulted with.
(04:43:21) Simone: Let me ask to triple check, one second please.
(04:45:31) Simone: Looks like we worked with them back then but they're a different supplier.
(04:45:48) Simone: Were an OE item for an older model.
(04:46:41) mike: how old?
(04:47:01) Simone: Early 80's model.
(04:47:31) mike: that's ancient like my bike
(04:47:40) Simone: :-)
(04:48:10) Simone: Trying to rebuild them?
(04:48:54) mike: I already did. Wanna make sure my spoke tension is not in the danger zone.
(04:49:19) mike: using 2.00 mm stainless steel spokes
(04:49:32) Simone: Got it.
(04:49:52) Simone: Had the shop take a look?
(0441) mike: no I haven't talked to them in a while. This was purchased about 3 years ago.
(04:51:16) Simone: Ok. We'd say 100 kgf which is industry standard.
(04:52:11) mike: ok that's helpful. Do you know the name of the company which manufactured these rims? Are they still in business?
(04:52:50) Simone: I think it was Matrix but not 100% sure, haven't been able to find anything on them.
(04:53:02) Simone: Only the rims for sale.
(04:54:05) mike: That's fair. Thanks. Is it possible to get a copy of this chat so I can post it on BikeForums?
(04:54:28) Simone: No problem at all.
(04:54:46) Simone: Are you able to copy it?
(04:56:11) mike: ok I sent the transcript to my address. Thank you for your assistance. You were very helpful. Bye :-)

dailycommute

Thousands of miles on 1988 matrix hubs/rim (trek 560) without issue but do repack the hubs every few thousand miles. Have a set of 1992 titan tour on lx hubs that have very little use but currently looking for a build.

muysal

I chatted with Trek and they could not confirm they manufactured this rim. I posted contents of the chat session on this thread earlier today. They made a reference to an outside company which may have manufactured the rim for one of their earlier model(s) from the 80's ! To my inquiry about recommended spoke tension they suggested the industry standard 100 kgf. My 36h rear wheel (DuraAce hub) on the drive side has an average spoke tension of 123.77 kgf. The left side has 71.74 kgf. I had no problem truing and dishing the wheel within the 10% limit according to Wheel Tension App from Park Tool Co. With that 123.77 kgf, am I risking rim-collapse ? Thank you for your comments

SkyDog75

There's a pretty good chance that @JohnDThompson, who chimed in above, is going to know 1980s Trek products better than Trek's customer service reps because John built them. The people answering Trek's phones today weren't building bikes (and wheels) in Waterloo, and may not have even been born yet. ;-)

SJX426 

+1 support for JohnDThompson when it comes to 80's Treks +

He got my attention several years ago when I was lamenting how easily Campy SR crown races broke. He mentioned that they had a drawer full of them at Trek! Don't remember if they were the broken ones or the replacement. I think it was replacements because I was wondering where the drawer is now, not to mention the content!

Bikegeek1968

Back in the 80's I worked in one of the biggest NorCal Trek dealers at the time. We had several 5' stacks of ISO C rims in various hole patterns and tire types. We built at least a dozen pairs of wheels per week and rarely had any problems. The typical build was 32 holes, DT 15 ga spokes with aluminum nipples front and non drive, brass on drive side.
Just recently I have been using a set on my Mavic 501's, 28 front, 32 rear, DT Revolutions with full aluminum nipples. This set has among other rides, taken on 4 editions of Eroica with flying colors.
Needless to say, I have always like these rims.

RobbieTunes

Re: Trek/Matrix. This is America. A guy down the road is making and selling bikes. Another guy just down the road, making wheels, well, that makes sense.

Watertown, I believe, was on that road.

muysal

I contacted Trek not to second guess your information. I had no idea you worked for Trek, as another member noted. Concerning average spoke tension, judging by "feel" is a bit subjective for me and probably requires the knowledge & experience I don't have. I have somewhere around 123.7 kgf average tension on 2.00 mm SS spokes for the drive-side of rear wheel. 77 kgf for the left side. I like to know if 123 kgf is excessive since the Trek CS recommended the industry standard 100 kgf.

JohnDThompson 

No worries. I left Trek in 1986, and at that point rim production was done in Waterloo. It's entirely possible that they may have outsourced rim production at some point after I left, and as noted above, current employees may have little knowledge of what was being made in-house 30+ years ago.

Motojavaphil

Cracked my rim, not riding related, and want to replace with like rim. Many miles on these rims with absolutely no problem. Bought the bike new and the carbon aluminum combo has been flawless.
If you happen to have one of these rims lying around please email me:

Mod edit: Send the OP a Visitor Message.

67tony 

Great info T-Mar, as usual...even though it's a 15 year old post!
My '92 Crosscut came with these rims, and they have been flawless from the get-go.

Jim G

I think the Matrix rims began as a project of Mark Smith and he assembled then in the basement of the late, great RRB cycles store in Kenilworth IL where he used a staking tool to connect the ends of the extruded and rolled shapes made for him somewhere in the Southland, then added the spoke hole ferrules with a hand arbor press. During Christmas Chicago around 1980 I stopped in to say Hi and was asked to take a pair of wheels back to Austin with me and ride on them All-The-Time in a milder climate as a service durability test. I thought the rims were fantastic but found no use for clinchers that would go flat and were so hard to take off for a road repair. This is 1981 and tubulars were the rule for most riders. Back in Austin a few months later I got a call from Ron Boii, shop owner, with news that some start-up in Wisconsin was interested in looking at the rims as an option on a bicycle production business they were starting. Good luck with that I thought but I obediently took them down to the airport (at that time in downtown) for the quick trip back north. Sure enough, the myopic start-up took the rim design and gave Mark a job.

tkamd73 

The only bad thing I’ve ever heard about them, came from something I read in Sheldon’s website a while back. Must have stuck with me though, cause when restoring a well used Trek 670, that I got from another forum member, I tossed the Matrix rims, and went with Velocity A23s. Just checked the website, it’s still there under Trek. Got rid of the Helicomatic hub too.



85 Trek 670

Tim

Trakhak

Bumping this post because of its valuable historical details about the Matrix rims.