cocoabeachcrab 

trying to figure out the story on a frame with these lugs... any ideas? i contacted wastyn and scott didn't recognize it as one of his, esp with the fwd facing rear drops.

unworthy1

Didn't some old Torpados use lugs like these? And given the integrated headset I'm reminded of all those early Bianchis, so could they be Italian? @juvela usually can ID old Italian frame bits...
what's that crankset and BB, any clue as to the threading?

cocoabeachcrab 

don't have the bike on hand... it's something i'm pondering.

unworthy1

another weak-ish clue, but when I see a "copper" finish like that I think "Wilier" (Triestina), so another point to Italy

juvela

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thought at first glance frame bits and headset might be Brampton Fittings

checked them against manufacturer catalogue of 1948 have here and no matches

you might wish to also post image(s) of shell


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cocoabeachcrab 

i tried to find old wilier images but nothing like that came up.

unworthy1

the plot thickens...but we will need more pix and details.
Possibly my thoughts of "Italian" are a red herring, might be another country or even continent. The BB shell seems to have an oil cup and the front fork was drilled (by somebody) for a brake, but tire clearance is snug, and the fork crown seems to be of a package with the headlugs...
veddy INteresting...

cocoabeachcrab 

this is the listing, but i'm in the bargaining mode for the frame, BB and saddle. i don't have any other images yet. https://www.ebay.com/itm/315132934599

unworthy1

It's way out of my wheelhouse but I did think the gears were skip-tooth, the crankset and stem will be further clues to folks who know far more about this era/vintage than me!
I'm subscribing for the stunning solution to this stumper!

imakecircles

Interesting bike!

Hmmm, I checked out the listing on that auction site and saw the engraving on the cranks of "Ken Winkie" and "Eisenmann"

A quick google led me to this page: https://www.sfomuseum.org/exhibition...-1950s/gallery, some of the text of which reads, "Ken Winkie (far right, wearing a hat) imported Dürkopp bikes and was very active in the San Francisco Bay Area bicycle-racing community in the 1920s–1940s"

Further searching on Durkopp bikes, revealed this post right here on BikeForums that seems to have the same distinctive headtube lugs as your specimen (though many of the other details are different).

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-duerkopp.html

cocoabeachcrab 

fantastic find! thank you!

unworthy1

Damn, I missed that exhibit at SFO back in 2013! I have been impressed with several other (not bicycle-related) exhibits I chanced upon while killing time at the airport.
The staff who curate these do an impressive job, punching WAY above their weight/class when it comes to "casual museum fare". Wish I knew this had been there when it was on, I didn't even know there had ever been bicycle racing at the Polo Field.

cocoabeachcrab 

i think it might be a "pop" brennan built bike frame. the bike came from NJ seller and seeing images of his frames from the 30's, there are a ton of similarities. there are no serial numbers anywhere on the frame, and a small shop frame builder may not have used serial number stamping. John "Pop" Brennan bicycle builder and mechanic | Classic Cycle Bainbridge Island Kitsap County
im working on cleaning up the copper plated frame. i tried wright copper cleaner but no joy, so took a chance with fine bronze wool and mother's mag and aluminum polish, and it's looking amazing so far. won't be able to get all the imperfections out but it will still look really good. lots of hard work with this one!

juvela

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great news of plating

had thought appearance due to wearing away of plating

delighted to read me error


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cocoabeachcrab 

they must have done a good job with plating in those days. defiantly plenty of patina character on the frame, but overall it should come out nicely. ill post some pics tomorrow.

geeteeiii

Headset parts are somewhat similar to the regular dürkopp-s i have seen around here. Mine thats also linked in the thread doesnt have the original fitted though as it was missing.

cocoabeachcrab 

as soon as i get this bike put back together, i'm going to reach out to some websites like Classic Cycle Bainbridge Island Bike Shop to see if they have any insights.

cocoabeachcrab 

did some copper plate cleanup, but the fugglies on the top tube especially are there to stay. insane head tube angle isn't a match for non track rear dropouts, so maybe this was a one time custom build for some rich guy to ride around town real fast. i'll put a few old and new up to compare... obviously my wheels/saddle/cockpit . wish i knew who made this frame... no numbers stamped anywhere.

juvela

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be steerer unmarked as well?


came back very nicely


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ye olde "broomstick bar" - careful now, Endora may be lurking about...

our Mr. Burgess appears to have climbed on as well...

shall the Lyotard 45CA's be staying on for a return engagement or have they departed on a road trip...


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cocoabeachcrab 

steerer is unmarked. the bar is a bubinga wood creation from the exotic far east, and mr B was asking to be used for something, so there you go! my grand daughter is into engraving stuff these days, so she is going to do some scrollies in the wood on the bar and fill the engraving with gold. but she is 17 and has a new boyfriend (with his own car no less), so pinning her down at home to do the affore mentioned engraving might not be easy!

unworthy1

so shiny!
I think if you're fitting non-standard handlebars you should at least try a copper (plumbing) pipe!
Might have to shim a thinner OD pipe but you could solder copper caps on the open ends...maybe even bend it into a half-moon...

Not sure about the "safety factor" of this idea but you're already into "style over practicality territory", right?

cocoabeachcrab 

i actually thought about the copper pipe! but i don't need to do an endo over the front of the bike when the pipe folds up over a bump! that wooden bar is pretty strong! but it may not stay... i just wanted to toss it together so i could see how it might look.

Doug Fattic 

Jaime Swann is a machinist and framebuilder in Long Island, NY and knowledgable about NYC area early framebuilders. Contacting him might get results. Some mysteries like this one may be extremely difficult to solve. For example in my hometown of Niles, Michigan (just above South Bend, Indiana) was a frame builder around the turn of the century. In the City business directory it mentions he did silver and gold lug plating and showed a bike at the Chicago Exposition in the late 1800's. I can't find any more information about him at all. I'm sure there are other now invisible builders that are possible candidates as the maker of this frame.